What have I got here ? Early Alpina B7 Help ?

[Deschodt]

I was picking up my 1973 2002 at the shop when I spotted this thing... It's for sale, it's pretty rare from what I hear, that is all I know. Haven't talked to the owner yet... I like it though..low vin #... 50K miles only..

Alpina B7 Turbo, I believe 1979...

alp1.jpg

alp2.jpg

I cannot find a price guide for these in my library, can anyone *ballpark* that car's value for me please ? Very nice shape, low miles, but I just want to make sure I'm not being taken for a ride, the owner seems to think it's very valuable per the mechanic...

[Big Six]

Last ones I have seen have gone in the 20s. But thats far from reliable in terms of valuation. Rare car is Rare.

[e24mpwr]

This thing is for sale? Details?

[Shipper]

worth more than an m6 in my books if in good nick. Can we have full exterior, interior and engine bay shots? I know my Alpinas back to front. If it is real, great find. I can also give you a rundown of what they go for in Japan and Europe.

[Deschodt]

worth more than an m6 in my books if in good nick. Can we have full exterior, interior and engine bay shots? I know my Alpinas back to front. If it is real, great find.

Oh, they fake those too ? I probably don't know enough about those cars to buy it, I'm a BMW 2002 guy with 911 expertise, zero alpina knowledge other than I know they are to BMW what RUF was to Porsche...

More shots, all I have... I can go get some more later...








Vin to verify authenticity??? If that's a no-no let me know and I'll take it down, it is after all not my car...



I think my mechanic is interested in it too, but if I got it it would be to keep, not flip ;-(
Then again I've been really burned on my 2002 & rust issues, so maybe I should stick to Porsches which I know better... I'll let you know... So low 20s would be a lowball offer ? mid 20s to high ???

[GI Jonas]

What are those hacky looking yellow wires in the last pic?

[Deschodt]

What are those hacky looking yellow wires in the last pic?

I see 6 of them, I'm gonna take a wild stab at it and guess plug wires ;-)
I dont know alpinas so I have no idea if those should go to a different location in the engine bay, if it's an aftermarket ignition systemm or what...I wasn't paying attention to them...

[TJC1]

Per VIN production date is 4/79 and is a Euro car. Curious as to the upgraded ignition system as the yellow wires that GI Jonas referenced are the spark plug wires and there doesn't appear to be a distributor at the front of the head. Definately some modifications (later than '79 I mean) done here! Like to see some more pics.

[dmac156]

Looks to be a legit Alpina. One was for sale around here for $28k IRRC. It was on bringatrailer, so you can probably find it there. I don't think it sold. I agree with Big Six, in the 20's unless it's in outstanding condition. A near perfect example is probably over $40k. If Shipper can find some recent sales in Europe and japan, those would be a good benchmarks.

Cool car. Check for rust. I think completeness of the Alpina parts, and condition will swing the price significantly. Keep us posted.

[Bert Poliakoff]

Per VIN production date is 4/79 and is a Euro car. Curious as to the upgraded ignition system as the yellow wires that GI Jonas referenced are the spark plug wires and there doesn't appear to be a distributor at the front of the head. Definately some modifications (later than '79 I mean) done here! Like to see some more pics.

Tom '79 would have Ljet originally and therefore a conventional distributor. The intake manifold is apparently Alpina design and therefor the Ljet individual runners appear to not be there, so who knows what was done during the modification process. If original engine, and I am sure it is, a concentional distributor would be correct as I said.

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[QUOTE=dmac156;26295101]Looks to be a legit Alpina. One was for sale around here for $28k IRRC. It was on bringatrailer, so you can probably find it there.

The car you are talking about, if it's the one I think it is, belongs to Frank Haas, a pretty astute collector. WA state, with some interesting cars. Anything he owns will be primo and he will get every last nickel out of it as he knows what his cars are worth.

[Big Six]

If we are talking about the same silver Alpina that was at 5erWest going for 28K then....Im sorry, but that car was ratty IMO and no where near worth 28K.

[TJC1]

Tom '79 would have Ljet originally and therefore a conventional distributor. The intake manifold is apparently Alpina design and therefor the Ljet individual runners appear to not be there, so who knows what was done during the modification process.

Bert, I'm very aware of the L-Jet system and the front mounted distributors used by the factory on our cars. I would like to see pictures of where the ignition wires are originating from on this particular car as they seem to be coming from the cowl area. Also looking at the pics that Big Six posted I'm now even more curious. Is this ignition system a type of crank fire system?

[Mike323i]

Yes, all ignition/injection/intake/exhaust are unique on these early Alpinas.

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Looking at my sig, I realize I must own this. At #110, it's mathematically perfect between #096 and #124.
Now someone shoot me before I ride this train of thought any further.

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Check that. Looks like it's been rebodied at some point.

[tschultz]

Sweet car. Should go to somebody interested in them. Tough to find parts, but would be sweet to have!!

[Deschodt]

Thank you all for the info. Since there is more than a possibility of a fake/transplant here, I won't be getting into this much deeper. I should stick with what I know, clearly I don't know enough about these... I'll let my mechanic decide if he wants it, and try to get an asking price, in case someone else is interested...

[Layne]

Check that. Looks like it's been rebodied at some point.

What evidence do you see of that? If it were a factory new body that could be a very good thing. If someone illegally re-VIN'd an old body then it's pretty much a parts car.


Obviously has some type of distributor-less ignition system. I've built similar ones for a couple of my cars, but that wouldn't have been possible in '79 that I know of. Probably added much more recently, but if it's well tuned it's a very good thing to have.

[dmac156]

Looks to be a legit Alpina. One was for sale around here for $28k IRRC. It was on bringatrailer, so you can probably find it there.

The car you are talking about, if it's the one I think it is, belongs to Frank Haas, a pretty astute collector. WA state, with some interesting cars. Anything he owns will be primo and he will get every last nickel out of it as he knows what his cars are worth.

The one I'm referring to is the one the belongs to Frank. He has an e-12 5 series B7, an e-12 M535, in addition to the 6 series plus lots of other cars. I've seen them all three for sale from time to time. I don't think he's in a hurry to sell any of them, so he probably will try to get what he can out of them. I agree with Big Six on the condition assessment, all of the cars listed are in "driver" condition at best. I think they are all complete and well sorted mechanically (although without driving them it's hard to tell), but cosmetically they are original and showing their age. - edit - Just to be clear and not give the wrong impression, even though they are not perfect we still love seeing his cars and appreciate seeing them at local events!

Here is a thread from another B7 that was on Bringatrailer. Looks like bidding did not hit $35K?? http://bringatrailer.com/2011/06/01/...s-turbo-coupe/

@Mike323i, it's rebodied? Yikes. What clued you into that?

[Mike323i]

Vin# is for a 635csi. My understanding was all first gen B7's were based on a 630cs (B7 is a 3.0liter car with bespoke injection).
Plus, below the stamped VIN is the riveted BMW vin plaque still in place. While Alpina kept the original BMW vin number in these days, they did replace the BMW vin plaques with their own.

An email to Alpina will quickly confirm if the vin matches the build number.


re: ignition - Yes, it is also Alpina bespoke distributor-less running off flywheel sensor. It was all rocket science for '78.

[TS888]

If we are talking about the same silver Alpina that was at 5erWest going for 28K then....Im sorry, but that car was ratty IMO and no where near worth 28K.

Ratty? I think you should reconsider your adjective.

It's not a garage queen, or a trailer queen. It's not owned by a navel gazing, q-tip obsessed concours pussy. It's mechanically excellent, cosmetically decent, and fun as hell to drive. And unless you are packing 300+ hp, the only time you'll be looking at anything other than the tail lights is when it's passing you, or parked at a show.

[Bert Poliakoff]

Ratty? I think you should reconsider your adjective.It's not a garage queen, or a trailer queen. It's not owned by a navel gazing, q-tip obsessed concours pussy. It's mechanically excellent, cosmetically decent, and fun as hell to drive. And unless you are packing 300+ hp, the only time you'll be looking at anything other than the tail lights is when it's passing you, or parked at a show.

Hello Frank!!~

[dlvad]

Brilliant!
Well said...

DV

[maxg765]

Ratty? I think you should reconsider your adjective.

It's not a garage queen, or a trailer queen. It's not owned by a navel gazing, q-tip obsessed concours pussy. It's mechanically excellent, cosmetically decent, and fun as hell to drive. And unless you are packing 300+ hp, the only time you'll be looking at anything other than the tail lights is when it's passing you, or parked at a show.

A car meant to be driven, an owner doing the right thing enjoying and driving it. Your a lucky man. I have owned other classics. Most were very low mile original examples which I had always been afraid to use. After some time I sold them... My 1988 M6 is technically no different having +-55000 original miles. I bought it in 2008 with +-52000 to +-53000 miles. This past year I've made the decision that I will enjoy it and use it. While its not my daily driver I have been using it a whole lot more. I seriously considered turning it into my daily driver, but have not reached that point just yet. Its a blast to own and I am actually enjoy it. I have my 1972 Triumph STAG coming back to me at the end of this month. Its received a full nut and bolt engine/transmission mechanical rebuild. The body received a full bare metal repaint in 2007. The car only had 34000 original miles thus the interior was near perfect. I intend to drive the hell out of of it. I might even daily drive it.

Have fun and well said.

Max

[TS888]

I'm not Frank, but he is my good friend. I frequently "help" him shuttle cars to shows (Oh, what a terrible chore ). Frank has a lot of cars -- I haven't counted lately, but it's well more than 20. His tastes run the gamut, from Italian exotic to American muscle to British quirky. Most all are limited production, some truly rare, and they are all driven regularly, regardless of value or rarity, because, as others have said -- cars are made to be driven.

And driving them means they get dirty. Parts wear, fluids leak, they get rock chips, sometimes worse. Beats letting them sit around deteriorating from lack of use.

[tschultz]

I think we can all agree that these cars should be driven. Now there is a difference between driving them and abusing them.
An Alpina E24 should not be put to use as a DD when commuting in downtown city traffic or winter weather conditions where gravel and rocks are flung in every direction.

Sure, do your best to keep them nice or slowly make them better, but don't abuse the vehicle. Drive it, enjoy it, let others see it, and that seems to be what TS888 is saying.

From the photos, I wouldn't say that car is ratty... Looks nice, and kudos to being able to drive it and let others enjoy it

[FWH]

I was informed that I should come read this thread as maybe I'd have some input, so I'll throw in my 02 cents.................

First off I would agree that the red 6er in question is a Euro 635 with an Alpina B7 engine transplanted into it. as the VIN plate riveted to the car still stating BMW GMBH and not Alpina Burkard Bovensiepen. All factory built B7 turbos had the factory BMW plate replaced with the Alpina item and there were no exceptions to this. All B7 turbo models were sold as new Alpinas and NOT BMW's. Factory built Alpina's did however retain the BMW chassis number until around 1983 when Alpina was formally registered as a unique car manufacturer in Germany, they then were allowed to issue their own VIN.

It would be nice to see inside the trunk for the auxiliary 10 gallon tank and interior shots for the Alpina gauges, steering wheel etc to determine if the other B7 turbo bits made it into this car. I would venture to guess most of a wrecked or rusted B7 turbo was re-planted into this early 6 series chassis. It could be a nice ride, but not an authentic factory built car. The yellow wires are spark plug wires going to the 3 coils firing the "lost" spark Dr. Hartig ignition found on all early B7 turbos. It is a distrbutorless flywheel fired system with turbo boost retard and was fairly advanced for it's time.

As for the comments on my car(s). Maybe some look at my cars and would call them "scruffy", if so, that is their prerogative. I myself choose to not judge others harshly on their choice of rides nor on their condition or taste of modifications. I could restore any or all of my cars to as new or better than new condition if I chose to do so. Having said that, I am of the opinion all things are only original ONCE. Therefore, keeping my cars in as nice and original a condition as possible takes priority over restoring them to as new or better than new condition. Having a car show it's age is much preferable to removing and making each component appear as new or better than new. We all know the George Washington axe paradox............... as I see no reason to participate in the BMW car club(s) "Concurs", or as I would say "Clean" car shows. If many feel that my vehicles are not worthy of being on display at local events, then I will no longer grace shows with their presence. I am some what busy with a wide range of car events, track, rally and shows and need to pick and choose which to attend.

FWH

1936 Plymouth Business Coupe

1938 MG TA
1954 Austin Healey 100
1956 Austin Healey 100
1959 Bugeye Sprite
1965 MG Midget (track car)
1965 Ford Cortina
1966 Ford Lotus Cortina
1968 MGC GT
1968 Sunbeam Imp (bike/rally car)
1969 BMW 2002
1969 Lotus Elan S4 Roadster
1970 Plymouth AAR cuda
1970 Plymouth ( 440 six pack clone )
1971 Dodge Challenger pro/street drag car
1974 MGB GT V8 (factory powered V8 MG-- RHD)
1974 Lotus Europa twincam JPS black/gold
1978 Alfa Romeo Spider
1979 BMW E12 525 Euro
1979 BMW E24 Alpina B7
1981 BMW E12 Alpina B7
1984 Audi Quattro Turbo Coupe
1985 Ferrari Testarossa
1987 Honda CRX si
1987 Alfa Romeo Milano ( Gold )
1988 BMW M6
1992 Alfa Romeo Veloce Spider
1992 Alfa Romeo 164 S