e30 vert fix up

[Luciano36]

[QUOTE
Many Thanks! That was exactly the feedback I was hoping to find in terms of detail and explanation. Think I'll take a pass on the package then. If it was "close enough" to the other one you recommended I'd gone for it. I'd think a stiff spring with soft shocks would make for a fairly bad ride and handling.[/QUOTE]

No problem! If you have the patience, springs and shocks/struts show up used in really good condition here on the classified section (also on r3vlimited and e30tech as well). The problem is that we need cabrio specific springs (ideally)...otherwise the car will have a negative rake (which can be corrected with thicker pads...but i would not go there if I were you)
Cheers
Luciano

[Jeffnhiscars]

Looking good! Are you thinking of lowering the car? I can recommend the Eibach Pro Kit springs (for cabrio) + Bilstein sport shocks/struts combo. That's what I have in my car right now (after trying a few other combos), and it's great IMO.You can see the car's stance in my signature pic (stock 14" size tire). Cheers and keep up the good work!

If you decide to go the Eibach/BS Sport route you may want to consider the Bilstein BTS 7511. This is the "tuned" option from Bilstein and my understanding is that the springs are from Eibach. This would be equivalent to the H&R Touring Cup Kit which I believe is H&R springs paired with custom valved (& private a labeled) Bilstein dampers.

You can buy it for around $700 which is very competitive with the prices I see for the separate sets (dampers & springs) so it makes great sense for a tuned set. Keep in mind if you do order them you need to specify Cabrio even though they are apparently all noted as BTS-7511, since the Cabrio is valving slightly different. This comes straight from Bilstein

Note: I am not seeing "BTS-7511" but this appears to be the set Im referring to at the lowest price I have found. Cant argue with Turner, who also happens to own allshocks.com so you can check there as well

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-22...n-package.aspx

[88e30vert]

I'm riding on vogtland springs and stock struts and the ride is good the only complaint I have is that it has a little to much negative rake. What would the best way to fix this issue?

[Luciano36]

I'm riding on vogtland springs and stock struts and the ride is good the only complaint I have is that it has a little to much negative rake. What would the best way to fix this issue?

This is exactly what happens to verts on springs designed for coupe and sedans. I don't really know which way is the "best" to fix your issue, but here are a few options for you:

1. Buy cabrio-specific springs, install them on your car, and sell the Voglands.
2. Install 15mm drop hats (front)
3. Install extra thick pads in the rear
4. 2 and 3 combined
5. Put back on the stock rear springs. I did this before: I installed lowering springs at front and left the rear ones on in the rear (didn't have the time to install all 4 springs/struts altogether within a day). The stance you'll get is almost perfect (considering cabrio specific springs lower the rear only 0.7"), and the ride is not bad. I know others who have done this with great results. Check the cabrio suspension thread on r3vlimited for more info.

1 and 2 require exactly the same amount of work (at the front).

My two cents
Cheers

Luciano

[Jeffnhiscars]

This is exactly what happens to verts on springs designed for coupe and sedans. I don't really know which way is the "best" to fix your issue, but here are a few options for you:

1. Buy cabrio-specific springs, install them on your car, and sell the Voglands.
2. Install 15mm drop hats (front)
3. Install extra thick pads in the rear
4. 2 and 3 combined
5. Put back on the stock rear springs. I did this before: I installed lowering springs at front and left the rear ones on in the rear (didn't have the time to install all 4 springs/struts altogether within a day). The stance you'll get is almost perfect (considering cabrio specific springs lower the rear only 0.7"), and the ride is not bad. I know others who have done this with great results. Check the cabrio suspension thread on r3vlimited for more info.

1 and 2 require exactly the same amount of work (at the front).

My two cents
Cheers

Luciano

This ^

You make a good point about raising the rear since mine sits just fine (Im talking about the car's rear). It also makes me wonder, since the range of rear height adjustment is somewhat small, whether its ok to use Sport or HD shocks in the rear. Its easier to buy sets of course and Im sure the valving is better matched, but in reality I suspect either damper will tolerate a 3\4" adjustment.

In the end the option that makes the most sense to me is a tuned set from either H&R or Bilstein then use a combination of drop hats and spring pads to fine tune the height.

Rear pads come in different thicknesses. Do they stack well & do you use just uppers, lowers or a combination of both to keep it even ?

[Luciano36]

This ^

You make a good point about raising the rear since mine sits just fine (Im talking about the car's rear). It also makes me wonder, since the range of rear height adjustment is somewhat small, whether its ok to use Sport or HD shocks in the rear. Its easier to buy sets of course and Im sure the valving is better matched, but in reality I suspect either damper will tolerate a 3\4" adjustment.

In the end the option that makes the most sense to me is a tuned set from either H&R or Bilstein then use a combination of drop hats and spring pads to fine tune the height.

Rear pads come in different thicknesses. Do they stack well & do you use just uppers, lowers or a combination of both to keep it even ?

Hey Jeff,
I know many people using Bilstein HD in the rear of their cabrios with no problems, since the difference between stock and "lowered" height in the rear is not much. I never used extra pads in the rear because I never had a negative rake (since I went for the cabrio-specific springs from the beginning), but I know a few fellow members who implemented this approach, also combined with drop hats to tailor the height (within the 0.7" realm).

As far as I remember (not 100% about this), it's the bottom pad that has to be thicker (15mm is the thickest I think?) or stackable. Also, I think you'd need to cut the "cone shape" thingy in one of the pads in case you want to stack one on top of each other (since they're not stackable per se). I am no expert on this matter (stacking pads)...so don't take me seriously

PS: I am not a big fan of drop hats, simply because they compress the springs and modify the travel of it, making it shorter. However, many people use them with no problems...so I guess it's a matter the spring/strut combo you use with the hats and the condition of the streets you drive on.

[Jeffnhiscars]

Hey Jeff,
I know many people using Bilstein HD in the rear of their cabrios with no problems, since the difference between stock and "lowered" height in the rear is not much. I never used extra pads in the rear because I never had a negative rake (since I went for the cabrio-specific springs from the beginning), but I know a few fellow members who implemented this approach, also combined with drop hats to tailor the height (within the 0.7" realm).

As far as I remember (not 100% about this), it's the bottom pad that has to be thicker (15mm is the thickest I think?) or stackable. Also, I think you'd need to cut the "cone shape" thingy in one of the pads in case you want to stack one on top of each other (since they're not stackable per se). I am no expert on this matter (stacking pads)...so don't take me seriously

PS: I am not a big fan of drop hats, simply because they compress the springs and modify the travel of it, making it shorter. However, many people use them with no problems...so I guess it's a matter the spring/strut combo you use with the hats and the condition of the streets you drive on.

The stacking scenario seems like a simple way to fine tune height since with all these variables you really never know how the car is going to sit until you've spent the $$ and installed everything.

I put drop hats in when I replaced the totally blown struts w BS Tourings. I dont think they shorten the springs but rather raise the contact point which has the effect of lowering the car. It will shorten your strut's resting length but I think we've already agreed there is some range to shorten stock struts without causing a problem.

Since springs controls ride height and you are not likely to find separate fronts and rears springs to your liking, it makes the most sense to just get a tuned set (springs & dampers) or a matched set of springs and adjust...or step up to coilovers.

I found a note I had made from speaking w Bilstien about how much I can lower my fronts with Touring struts. The difference between full rebound & full compression is 6.75" so depending on how much piston I have showing now will determine how much lower I can go without issue. I am yet to measure but its good to have that data

[Luciano36]

My bad, Jeff. You're right about drop hats raising the contact point. From the following diagram:
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.dom...11&hg=31&fg=10
It's easy to see how a deeper (or taller?) hat (#9 in diagram) would raise the top contact point of the spring in the strut assembly without compressing the spring. Now I got it!

[Jeffnhiscars]

My bad, Jeff.... Now I got it!

I'm so glad

[braddammit]

Been super busy work wise and have had to do the top bit by bit.

A lot of is was the same as this guys very informative thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=240865

First was the tear down that really pretty closely followed his

Here's one where I'd removed everything but the back channel for the rear window seals. Everything was pretty badly oxidized, etc...



Cutting off the old top



These are where the cables that pull down the sides of the top attach in the back



You cut the tie wrap and twist it sideways to get it off the little hook that it attaches to.



This is what it looks like inside the plastic cover. There's a spring that attaches to the cable.



These are the little plastic "shoulders" that go at the top of the rear channels



Easiest way to pull the old top off is to use some channel locks to grip and rip



There it sits in all it's oxidized glory



Next to remove it and clean and paint the frame

[braddammit]

Frame back on and repainted



Before you put the new straps back on you'll need to poke holes in the new ones. The other guy measured them but what I did was to get some large binder clips and bind them together.

That let me get the holes punched in the new one exactly the same





Hooked the new straps in front.



Then rivet the back in place. Only do the middle hole first so you can get it aligned properly



Then make sure you have the strap properly aligned and add the inner and outer rivets



You want them aligned like this






Now we're ready to put the top on

[braddammit]

As the other guys said Cover EVERYTHING in plastic.

I glued my back part pretty well the same as him except for the following. I didn't put the end pieces on prior to gluing the sides. This made it a LOT easier to get the sides of the back part glued straight. Also, get some of those woodworking clamp from the hardware store. They clamp really strong and are plastic covered so they won't damage anything.



These are the end pieces I was referring to. He puts them on and glues them prior to gluing the sides. I did it the other way



Once the initial layer is dry you can go back and glue the other layers together




That flat wire bead that runs around the back of your old top is perfect for using as a fish to run the side cables through so hang onto it.




And of course if you had more than one top the side rails where the cable attach will most likely break when you try to put the cables back in and pinch them closed. Seeing as how the damn little replacements parts are $20 each I figured there's got to be a better way so I went to the hardware store and got some electrical terminals



Then cut off the plastic, drilled a hole the would locate the cable in the same place, riveted it in place and then clamped the cable with it.



The rest of the install went pretty well the same as his so I didn't take pics of all of it plus the wife took off with the camera...

But here's the final top prior to gluing in the flaps inside. I want it to set for a few days and do whatever stretching it will before I glue those and start adjusting things.

The blue painters tape is where I "repaired" the seals with the urethane that you use for the front seal and rear channels. You'll notice some white smudges, that's talcum powder from when I took off the gloves I wore while putting on the urethane.

[csifan99]

Very nice work. The paint looks mint and good job on the top. Subscribed.

[braddammit]

Thanks. Likewise with your project. You've been doing some very impressive work on your vert.

[stonechip]

The blue painters tape is where I "repaired" the seals with the urethane that you use for the front seal and rear channels. You'll notice some white smudges, that's talcum powder from when I took off the gloves I wore while putting on the urethane.

Can you please expand on how you did that? What exactly you used and how you applied it. That would be very helpful information.

I have a section where the surface looks like it was removed and, of course, it leaks right on the driver's seat.

[braddammit]

Can you please expand on how you did that? What exactly you used and how you applied it. That would be very helpful information.

I have a section where the surface looks like it was removed and, of course, it leaks right on the driver's seat.

Sure. I laid a few beads down it and then smoothed it with my fingers to where it was about the same height and contour as the rest of the seal. Then I put some tape over it to hold it in place.

I'll try and get some pics up shortly with more detail.

Edit: I've still got to do an area at the front of the drivers door. Will be sure and take photos of all the steps when I do it.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's what the drivers front looked like



First I build up beads of the urethane (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tr...FZE-Mgodr3wAHA)



Then smooth it out and contour it some. Not the best lookiing thing on earth but it'll work until I get the money for all the seals, which I'm going to do before they become NLA.

[Jeffnhiscars]

Brad that fit is so spot on it could almost pass for a hardtop so great job.

I'm trying to drill the rivets out to remove the channel seal off my old top and the rivets just spin. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated

Im also wondering what brand of top that is.

Keep up the good work :-)

[braddammit]

Brad that fit is so spot on it could almost pass for a hardtop so great job.

I'm trying to drill the rivets out to remove the channel seal off my old top and the rivets just spin. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated

Im also wondering what brand of top that is.

Keep up the good work :-)

Thanks Jeff.

First thing I'd do was to get a larger size bit that would drill through the "head" of the rivet and then I'd pop it back through. The other thing I'd do was to go with a bit the same size as the rivet and wedge a small pocket screwdriver behind the head. If you're using a bit the same size as the rivet try using the larger bit and press down. The pressure will hold the rivet still and the second you get through the head or flange stop. You can then take a punch and knock it back through.

I got the top from these guys http://www.autotopsdirect.com/BMW-Co...-Tops-s/52.htm

Edit: Here's another URL http://www.autotopsdirect.com/1987-1...04-e30-001.htm

Really happy with the quality. It comes with the wire bead under the back lip and is every bit as good as the factory one IMO.

Good luck with yours as well and fell free to email me if you need to, the email notification is not working very well since the forum update. My name is Brad Hale and my email is my name at my name dot com.

[Jeffnhiscars]

Thanks Brad. The only reason Im looking to swap in that seal (off my spare top) is that the rear windows closes outside the seal unless I hold the rubber flap out til it starts. Im thinking the metal frame is bent inward. Does that make sense ?

[braddammit]

Thanks Brad. The only reason Im looking to swap in that seal (off my spare top) is that the rear windows closes outside the seal unless I hold the rubber flap out til it starts. Im thinking the metal frame is bent inward. Does that make sense ?

Yeah it does. You got a photo of it? Another thing that can happen is that the outer part of the seal can get mashed in. I'll try and get some photos as well.

[Luciano36]

Looking good Brad!! Nice work installing the new top!

[braddammit]

Thanks Luciano. Now got to finish cleaning up and restoring the rear bumper and then most likely the lowering setup you recommended.

Might take a little while to get to it though, next project is replacing head gaskets on this (90 Vette)

[Jeffnhiscars]

Brad dont waste that engine on a Vette. You should drop it in to your e30 :-)

[Luciano36]

Thanks Luciano. Now got to finish cleaning up and restoring the rear bumper and then most likely the lowering setup you recommended.

Might take a little while to get to it though, next project is replacing head gaskets on this (90 Vette)

Cool! Now that's an engine!

[braddammit]

Brad dont waste that engine on a Vette. You should drop it in to your e30 :-)

ROFL.... But I wanted to build an m20 turbo stroker for the e30...

Cool! Now that's an engine!

SBC L98. They don't make a lot of horsepower (I'm probably close to 280 with the mods I've done) but they make butt loads of torque (stock for that year is 350 ft/lbs). I'm probably pushing close to 375 ft/lbs. Makes for a very fun car to drive. My plans for it are to add an LT exhaust and stroker kit to bring from 350CI to 383CI and a large runner intake with a mild cam upgrade. That ought to get me to almost 400HP and 475+ ft/lbs. Plenty for a street car. You can get stroker kits that will handle up to 600HP for under a grand.