High Clutch Engage Point

[njf08400]

I replaced the clutch on my 86 325e about 4,000 miles ago. Before replacing the clutch, the engage point was very high, about 1/10 of the clutch pedal travel.
After replacing, it only got slightly better, about 1/8 in from the top.
This bothers me.
I've installed a clutch stop, but even with that it is annoying.
I plan on bleeding the system either tonight or tommorow, and adjusting the ecentric cam bolt on the clutch pedal. I was also considering replacing the hoseing in the clutch hydrolic system.
I havent read any good solutions exept that for replacing the clutch and just dealing with it. Frankly, that is not a solution. With a new clutch, the engage point should be significantly lower on the pedal.
Anybody come across a similar problem and have a real solution for it?
-Nathaniel

[Ruffian]

I'm kinda confused by this. You want the engage point to be high in the pedal travel. When you say "high" I assume that when your pedal is at rest, you need to only move it 1/8th of the distance to dis-engage the clutch and shift.

[Nbx33]

yeah that sounds good to me....... but its does seem kinda high

[thejlevie]

With a new clutch, the engage point should be significantly lower on the pedal.
Nope. A new clutch has the engage/disengage point near the top. As the clutch wears that point moves lower.

You can change the pedal position somewhat by adjusting the excentric at the pedal arm pivot. The position of the brake pedal can be adjusted to match by twiddling the link between the pedal arm and the brake booster.

[njf08400]

So, the clutch engagement point should be that high on the pedal?
That seems counter intuitive to me, as in most cars it should be very close to the floor when the clutch is new.

I hate to mention this, but when i replaced the clutch on my 92 Saturn, I barely had to let of the floor to have the clutch engaged fully.

So, I'm still confused.

[strad]

Neither of mine are that high, but to be fair the cabrio has the original clutch at 157k. But it compares favorably with the seven other five-speed bimmers I've driven, so I would think it to be somewhat normal and not worn out yet.

I did have a high engagement problem with my mustang. That turned out to be caused not by the clutch disk itself (which had 50% remaining) but by the pilot bearing, which was toasted.

[draccent]

So, the clutch engagement point should be that high on the pedal?
That seems counter intuitive to me, as in most cars it should be very close to the floor when the clutch is new.

I hate to mention this, but when i replaced the clutch on my 92 Saturn, I barely had to let of the floor to have the clutch engaged fully.

So, I'm still confused.


While I dont see how bleeding the system would hurt...you have to remember that EVERY clutch is different. No two are going to be the same...hence the art of driving a manual :) Check your install..just mentally retrace your steps, and if you really feel froggy, pull it apart and examine things as its perfectly normal for anyone to make mistakes...but honestly...if your clutch is still high after some thought on the install or maybe repair of something you missed to replace or adjust correctly..then find the exact point it disengages at, and thats only as far as you have to press the pedal. Also...it'll "wear in" after a while you'll have it where you want it just from wear eventually.

[SeattleBMW325i]

So, the clutch engagement point should be that high on the pedal?
That seems counter intuitive to me, as in most cars it should be very close to the floor when the clutch is new.

I hate to mention this, but when i replaced the clutch on my 92 Saturn, I barely had to let of the floor to have the clutch engaged fully.

So, I'm still confused.

counter intuitive? how so? if it's higher, you can shift faster

[njf08400]

I am sure my neighboors love me now. 4 nights in a row in the front drive working on my bmw. Oh well.
Just adjusted the cam, and that helped, much more than I expected. I am now getting engagement at aprox 3/5 travel from the floor. With my clutch stop which takes out about a 1/4 of the travel, it makes it easier to drive.

I'd prefer not to have to go through the hell that is removing the transmission on this car unless I absolutely have too. There are bolts on there that required a 3 foot extension to get to.
However, I have walked myself through the clutch instalation several times now, to make sure I havent missed anything.

Sorry to be long winded, but heres another batch, I just want to make sure im in understanding here.
When we press down on the clutch pedal, it engages the piston in the master cylinder, which then engages the piston in the slave cylinder, which pushes out against the lever arm.
the lever arm at its midpoint has a throwout bearing, which pushes against the spring on the presure plate.
When the presure plate spring is pushed down on, it pulls up on the clutch disk, releasing it to spin freely.
Now, this whole system is hydrolicly adjusted, so it dosent need adjustment, and should theoreticly work the same at all stages of the clutch's life.
As there is more material for the clutch pressure plate to grab onto on a new clutch, it would require less travel of the pressure plate to obtain grip. This leads to a situation where at clutch pedal down, the pressure plate is fully disingaged. When we release the clutch pedal, and engage the clutch, since the clutch disk is rather thick on a new clutch, we shouldn't have to move the pressure plate very far, before engagement occurs.
Right?
So, why it is common for even a new clutch to have at least half a pedal's worth of travel BEFORE we start to engage the clutch?

Perhaps we are looking not a a flaw in the clutch design, but people forgetting the variables?
If a clutch's hydrolic lines become old, and too flexible, or stretch too much due to 20 odd years of use, this would require more volume of fluid, and more presure to move the slave cylinder, possibly causing the situation we see commonly.
There is a possibility for the lever's to become bent over the years, and cause the problem. A bent lever arm would cause the same problem. Perhaps also the clutch pedal itself was bent similarly.

So, I propose a few popositions for fixes. Feel free to let me know what you think of them and if they work.
1. For the travel of the clutch, we are not talking a lot of distance.
We could try spacing gaskets for the slave cylinder to move it farther away from the transmission. This should effectivly move the engagment point by requiering more clutch pedal travel before disingement of the clutch disk occurs, therefore moving the engagement point closer to the floor.

2. Remove an amount of material off of the clutch slave cylinder. Same affect as #1.

3. Remove the lever arm and alter the shape of it so that the slave cylinder piston comes in contact sooner. Either reshape the dimple the piston fits into, or bend that section of the lever arm. Same effect as #1.

I am going to try the spacers first, as it is the least drastic of the 3 options I propose, and easiet to reverse. I will be trying to find a good gasket material to work with for this. If anybody is brave enough to try 2 or 3, as i said before, let me know.
I am also considering replacing the hose for the clutch system.

Now I sleep.

[ClutchSnappy]

I learned to deal with it, I think that you will find that almost all the e30's (with stock gearbox and clutch) will engage towards the end of the pedal stroke, and that a good 80% does nothing.
Just saying.