633CSi vs. 635CSi??

[Brodee]

I am new to the e24 and have the opportunity to buy a 633CSi. I did some searching but couldn't really find much on the differences between the 633 and the 635. I know the obvious like the displacement, but what is the hp difference and is the b35 a better motor? Should I hold off on the 633 ('84) and look for a 635 or is there not that much difference?

Thanks and sorry for the newbie questions.

[xatlas0]

I am new to the e24 and have the opportunity to buy a 633CSi. I did some searching but couldn't really find much on the differences between the 633 and the 635. I know the obvious like the displacement, but what is the hp difference and is the b35 a better motor? Should I hold off on the 633 ('84) and look for a 635 or is there not that much difference?

Thanks and sorry for the newbie questions.

The majority of 635csi actually use the M30B34, rather than the B35. The B35 was used in everything 87+ (production), and had higher compression, a better flowing head, and bigger valves. If it is that important to you, it is a very easy swap to toss in a B35.

The majority of the differences will depend on the specific year of the 633 in question. If I recall right, the additional displacement yeilded no stated gains, so the driving differences should be very slight.

[Brodee]

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. The car is an '84 633. I figured if it came down to it I could always swap the motor in later. I just want this as a daily driver so I'm not racking up miles on the 540 and it seemed like a pretty good deal.

Another question. What options are out there for springs? I'd like to drop it a little. I read that these started with teh e28 chassis. Does that mean e28 suspension options will work?

[xatlas0]

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. The car is an '84 633. I figured if it came down to it I could always swap the motor in later. I just want this as a daily driver so I'm not racking up miles on the 540 and it seemed like a pretty good deal.

Another questions. What options are out there for springs? I'd like to drop it a little. I read that these started with teh e28 chassis. Does that mean e28 suspension options will work?

An 84? Ok, yes, that is an E28 based model. It uses the Getrag 260 trans if it is a manual. The motor should be fine. It will probably get somewhere around 20 combined mpg, but you can use regular grade.

All E28 mods should work, including suspension.

[Makr]

I run H&R spings, and love them. The earlier cars were e12 chassis.

[Brodee]

Cool, thanks guys and sorry about the newbie questions.

[xatlas0]

Cool, thanks guys and sorry about the newbie questions.

Hey, everybody is a noob sometime. The 6-er section is pretty laid back, so no worries. Feel free to ask whatever somes to mind.

[M635forever]

The majority of 635csi actually use the M30B34, rather than the B35. The B35 was used in everything 87+ (production), and had higher compression, a better flowing head, and bigger valves. If it is that important to you, it is a very easy swap to toss in a B35.

The majority of the differences will depend on the specific year of the 633 in question. If I recall right, the additional displacement yeilded no stated gains, so the driving differences should be very slight.
I think you been misstaken about the "B35"!
The 633:s had a displacement of 3210cc and had 197bhp between 1978-1982.
1976-77 had 200bhp
The E28 based 635 1983 had a displacement of 3430cc and also 197bhp
The 635 had 197,204,211,218 bhp depends of what country its been sold in and if it had a catalysator!
Both 3210cc and 3430 is from the M30 engine family.
There were a M90? that had 3453cc, the same as M 88/1,M88/3 and the S38B35!
S38B35 is the engine that took place in M6 US model and late 87 to 89 in M635 European model, 260bhp with cat.
The M88/1 in the supercar M1.
And the M88/3 in the European M635Csi (M6) between 1984-last quarter of 87, this one whith 286bhp and non-cat

[Brodee]

I think you been misstaken about the "B35"!
The 633:s had a displacement of 3210cc and had 197bhp between 1978-1982.
1976-77 had 200bhp
The E28 based 635 1983 had a displacement of 3430cc and also 197bhp
The 635 had 197,204,211,218 bhp depends of what country its been sold in and if it had a catalysator!
Both 3210cc and 3430 is from the M30 engine family.
There were a M90? that had 3453cc, the same as M 88/1,M88/3 and the S38B35!
S38B35 is the engine that took place in M6 US model and late 87 to 89 in M635 European model, 260bhp with cat.
The M88/1 in the supercar M1.
And the M88/3 in the European M635Csi (M6) between 1984-last quarter of 87, this one whith 286bhp and non-cat

I was guessing the 635 used an m30b35. So looking at the above numbers what is the displacement & HP rating of a US spec '84 633CSi?

[jbd5015]

I have an 83 833csi and you are looking at the same motor, the M30B34 which is the 3210cc motor, but i think the power is actually 184hp. 197 sounds about right for the first year of 3430cc M30B34, but im still not to big on this numbers thing...all i know is that no matter what 6er you have, its going to have a more than adequate amount of power with great handling and style. Go with what you like and you wont be dissappointed.

-Jeff

[Brodee]

Thanks guys. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't like the e30's where the 325e is a MUCH different car than a 325i.

[xatlas0]

I think you been misstaken about the "B35"!
The 633:s had a displacement of 3210cc and had 197bhp between 1978-1982.
1976-77 had 200bhp
The E28 based 635 1983 had a displacement of 3430cc and also 197bhp
The 635 had 197,204,211,218 bhp depends of what country its been sold in and if it had a catalysator!
Both 3210cc and 3430 is from the M30 engine family.
There were a M90? that had 3453cc, the same as M 88/1,M88/3 and the S38B35!
S38B35 is the engine that took place in M6 US model and late 87 to 89 in M635 European model, 260bhp with cat.
The M88/1 in the supercar M1.
And the M88/3 in the European M635Csi (M6) between 1984-last quarter of 87, this one whith 286bhp and non-cat

No, my E9 owning comrade, the B35 is not a direct link to the displacement, unlike other B designations. In this case, the M30B35 is simply the last M30, which used the Motronic 1.3 system.

Here is a fairly comprehensive site about the M30 and its derivatives.
http://aaron.aussiefiverdriver.com/M30%20engine.htm

The only E24 to use the M30B35 was the 87+ production models, as they came to the US with 9:1 compression and the Motronic 1.3 system. The earlier US 635s used the M30 B34 which had cats, a CR of 8:1, and used Motronic 1.0.

The B35 was also used in the 87+ E23 735 and the E34 535. I have one from an 87 735 in my E9, and it is Motronic 1.3.

[640CSi]

No, my E9 owning comrade, the B35 is not a direct link to the displacement, unlike other B designations. In this case, the M30B35 is simply the last M30, which used the Motronic 1.3 system.

Here is a fairly comprehensive site about the M30 and its derivatives.
http://aaron.aussiefiverdriver.com/M30%20engine.htm

The only E24 to use the M30B35 was the 87+ production models, as they came to the US with 9:1 compression and the Motronic 1.3 system. The earlier US 635s used the M30 B34 which had cats, a CR of 8:1, and used Motronic 1.0.

The B35 was also used in the 87+ E23 735 and the E34 535. I have one from an 87 735 in my E9, and it is Motronic 1.3.

To end all misunderstandings, how can you tell which motronic you are running? I know that there are generally two computers used. 079 and 150. My 88 has a 150 ECU. I also looked at my block and the pad behind the head says b34 I think... But it has the large manifold we were talking about in a previous thread. This also confuses me a little. I know it should have the b35 but I like to see it in writing and am positive I have an original engine. I also can tell it is HC, but why does it say b34 on it?

[640CSi]

Also, the power figures mentioned above apply to Euro motors for the most part and are somewhat irrelevant to us.

[xatlas0]

To end all misunderstandings, how can you tell which motronic you are running? I know that there are generally two computers used. 079 and 150. My 88 has a 150 ECU. I also looked at my block and the pad behind the head says b34 I think... But it has the large manifold we were talking about in a previous thread. This also confuses me a little. I know it should have the b35 but I like to see it in writing and am positive I have an original engine. I also can tell it is HC, but why does it say b34 on it?

The main thing I have seen is the Motronic 1.0 system uses two sensors mounted on the flywheel to tell crank position. The Motronic 1.3 system uses a toothed harmonic balancer and a Hall effect sensor mounted up front to get the crank position.

[JCHenryAIA]

For the record: for the E24 series, I understand that nearly all straight sixes can be swapped. Which year had the highest HP six after E24 that can be fit.
Also heard that you can install a 12 cyl. as well. Very difficult I presume.
Other threads claim it is easier and less costly to simply add a turbo.
thanks for your thoughts.

[640CSi]

For the record: for the E24 series, I understand that nearly all straight sixes can be swapped. Which year had the highest HP six after E24 that can be fit.
Also heard that you can install a 12 cyl. as well. Very difficult I presume.
Other threads claim it is easier and less costly to simply add a turbo.
thanks for your thoughts.

I have heard of the v12 swap, and have seen pictures of it which actually inspired me to do the v8 swap, but knowing how difficult the v8 is, I would say a v12 is out of the question. The red "650" on the internet was built by BMW to test the new 8series motor and the car was destroyed shortly thereafter. If you see the pictures you can get a glimpse of how insanely modified that car is. I will have to grudgingly conform and admit that turbo is the way to go and as soon as I can put away 5 grand, that is what I am buying.:buttrock

[Alex E24 E30]

A v12 in a e24 sounds very reasonable by comparison to the v12 that a Scandinavian put into an e30 in this months issue of BMW Performance. I think that was the magazine name anyway.

[JCHenryAIA]

there is a 5 series v8 on ebay for sale.
how difficult is this job?

[e24mpwr]

Be careful of 5-series V8's - if it is early-mid 90's there was a run of Nikasil engines that were very problematic and part of a quasi-recall. Most engines that are still running that have some miles are probably OK, but I wouldn't invest any money in one...

[640CSi]

Acording to metric mechanic, owning one of these isn't as bad as it used to be since fuel refining standards have improved and fuel does not have as much sulfur in it as it used to. I have done the swap and can say that it is doable, you just need a few parts, and a little time:buttrock

[xing6666]

another thing is that the 635's all had front airdams which I think make them look a little better... (just mho)

[xatlas0]

there is a 5 series v8 on ebay for sale.
how difficult is this job?

http://www.bmwe28v8.org/gallery.php

Should be about the same.

[e24mpwr]

I know a guy who dropped an LS1 Corvette engine in an M635...

He likes that car.....a LOT!

[xatlas0]

I know a guy who dropped an LS1 Corvette engine in an M635...

He likes that car.....a LOT!

People are putting LS1s in everything nowadays. A member here, BMWAndreas, has a S38-driven E30 that he's got up past 900rwhp. (not a typo, 900!)

S38 powa! Also, in the FI section, DefactoM6 made a video showing off his extremely tricked (go fast tricked, not 20's and ear-bleed speakers tricked)E24 M6. There was a thread a very long time ago detailing the build, as well in the FI section. Go check it out if you feel like it.

[JCHenryAIA]

I have a friend who is a pretty good wrench; says he wants to put in a 350 into one of my cars.
What are the issues with a US made engine?

[xatlas0]

I have a friend who is a pretty good wrench; says he wants to put in a 350 into one of my cars.
What are the issues with a US made engine?

Everything. The electronics don't match, so it makes things kinda tricky, even moreso than any other BMW engine swap. Take a look for an E36 LS1 318ti to see what I mean. If you mean carbed, then it's mechanical, it won't give you much trouble, aside from the nature of carbs.

[JCHenryAIA]

Yes, I just talked to him.
Carbureted 350 or so. Vacuum lines to tranny, matched.
Says he can get 500 HP out of it with aluminum headers, etc.
Is this easier than installing a BMW 8?

[xatlas0]

Yes, I just talked to him.
Carbureted 350 or so. Vacuum lines to tranny, matched.
Says he can get 500 HP out of it with aluminum headers, etc.
Is this easier than installing a BMW 8?

Have you ever owned a carbed car before? It is significantly different from fuel injection, especially in terms of reliability.

The hp figure isn't terribly suprising, considering it is nearly double the displacement.

This swap could cause some issues because of basic design differences. BMW has been making stuff for a long time, and they have their own way of doing things. It shows in everything they make. Certain stanards and such. Heck, I was able to do an engine swap with a grand total of 3 wrenches because of BMW's standards. Swapping in a US motor will increase the complications, as those basic standards are not true anymore. It will be a fight, one bolt at a time. Whereas, with the BMW, parts will sometimes just fit, because of the standards.

[JCHenryAIA]

you recommend a BMW V8 swap.
and you say it was not difficult?
mounts are not the same are they; what about tranny, etc.

[xatlas0]

you recommend a BMW V8 swap.
and you say it was not difficult?
mounts are not the same are they; what about tranny, etc.

I think you slightly misnderstood.

In terms of value, the US swap will make more power, but then you have to deal with that power. Plus, then you have a frankenstein, meaning nobody but you, or the guy who built it, will really know how to fix it. Then you've got imperial and metric concerns, carbs, a bunch of other things. A lot of work.

The M60 swap, while by no means easy, has already been done several times, has pictures to go on, and a consistant standard set. It will still involve a lot of custom fabrication, lots of time, and lots of swearing. The M60 is not mod-friendly either, so what you get is the end of the road, as I kinda doubt there would be enough room for a centri SC in there too.

Both swaps pose significant problems. Unless you feel like having a lot of custom fab work done, I'd just get the turbo. Cheaper, more power, expandable, and a whole lot less work. Of course, you'll have to ditch the auto no matter how you go.

The swap I talked about was this:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368282

[JCHenryAIA]

I hear you...
hmmm Turbo.
Is this the TDC system you have mentioned?
Is there any other manufacturer that offers a kit?
Isn't it going to run about $7 grand?

[xatlas0]

I hear you...
hmmm Turbo.
Is this the TDC system you have mentioned?
Is there any other manufacturer that offers a kit?
Isn't it going to run about $7 grand?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=569445

The designer of the kit is actually on this board; you can ask him whatever you want about it.

There have been, as far as I am aware, a total of 5 turbo M30 aftermerket setups.
1. Alpina- sweeeet bi-turbo setup. Hard to find, really hard to federalize. Only e34.
2. Dinan- more than a little difficult to find, pretty much a normal turbo kit.
3. Cartech- single or bi-turbo, mostly in the 80s. They are supposedly re-releasing the kit.
4. Callaway- 80s kit, nobody makes it anymore.
5. TCD- pretty much the only place to get a new turbo kit.

That said, there was also an OEM turbo M30, in the E23 745. (non south african, they got the M88)

[bmwlovr]

Here's an e30 with a chevy smallblock - http://www.personal.kent.edu/http://www.personal.kent.edu/~wbainey/ENGINE02.jpg~wbainey/BMW.htm (http://www.personal.kent.edu/~wbainey/BMW.htm)

and a bit of info on E36 v8 swaps:
(http://forums.bimmerforums.com/foru...71&page=1&pp=50)

There are also others doing the same thing:

http://nash8503.com/Conversion_Kits.html (http://nash8503.com/Conversion_Kits.html)

http://www.vorshlag.com/E36ProjectBook.asp (http://www.vorshlag.com/E36ProjectBook.asp)

-- I remember back in the day hearing about several 6er swaps to Chevy v8's. The M10 seems like the better choice - but it all comes down to your skills, your wallet, and what makes you happy.:)

[JCHenryAIA]

We're talking $6,000 for the conversion kit plus $8K for the LS1?
sounds a bit high but the power results of course are tremendous.

[Ol'6erGuy]

OK, I'm going to jump into the fray. First of all, I'm an old hot rodder, I've done lots of insane swaps. You had better be a good fab. person if you are going to drop anything else into an E 24. The factory designed the drive train for the total parameters of the engine, you want to dump a big V-8 in, stand by to replace the trans, driveline, diff., axles, blah, blah. Been there, done that!! Now, let's talk about weight. How's the V-8 weigh compaired to the good old M 30? Heavier, lighter?? Do you know what the difference either way that makes to the handling of the car??
To make a long story short, look into mods for your engine. In the long run, you will be much happier and have a better car.

[JCHenryAIA]

Thanks for the input.
The more I think about a conversion the weaker I feel about it.
I think the chip and then a turbocharger should do it best.
I still think a smooth 12 would be very nice in an e24

[Ol'6erGuy]

There is a truth to the fact that the more cyllinders, the smoother the engine. Over the years, I have found that BMW knows what they are doing. Fix up your big six, you will be happier in the long run.

[xatlas0]

There is a truth to the fact that the more cyllinders, the smoother the engine. Over the years, I have found that BMW knows what they are doing. Fix up your big six, you will be happier in the long run.

Indeed, the only car I know of that is simply better in every respect after a swap is a LS1 FD RX-7. One day...:devillook

[Ol'6erGuy]

Well, if going in a streight line is your bag, my '74 Vega was nasty. It was (and I stress was) a 1974 Chev Vega GT wagon. It had a LT-1 350 that had been balanced, heads ported, cam changed (all the good stuff). A turbo 400 was behind it and a narrowed 12 bolt rear end with 4.10 posi in it. I got two tickets with it and wrecked it. It was the absolutely most scairy car I have ever owned.

[BimmerCruiser]

A little bit of a late reply in the thread, but I definately would say to go with the 635. The M30 engine is definately one of the strongest, tried and true engines BMW did. Thru all the e12's, e24's, e32's, e34's, and so on. It is a fantastic, easy going engine. I loved it in my old 735! Sure, it was a 7 with 7 issues, but NOT 7 like issues in the engine department.