Project Bon Ami glass restoration... help!

[JD886]

Well I figured out that Bon Ami + fine steel wool (I only had 000 ) works wonders!!! I've used every glass cleaner, polish and vinegar on my windows, non of it works! In the first picture, all the windows look just like that, and won't get any better....

so...

Bon Ami + steel wool... WORKS! But... It leaves spiderweb-like marks...

Does anyone know of a mildly abrassive polish, either glass, or metal or something that will be abrasive enough to take out fine swirl marks in glass but leave it perfectly clear? If thats the case, I/we could potential have a way to restore glass to -- literaly -- brand new.

HELP !


Yes some of you are going to question how the second picture is any better... trust me it is. There is virtualy no etching left over, just the fine marks left by the wool.


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8655/projectbonami14rr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


VS

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9634/projectbonami22fd6on.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[bellavus]

was your winshield severly pitted to begin with? Oh, and I'd edit the second pic not to show your VIN number for your car.

[JD886]

was your winshield severly pitted to begin with? Oh, and I'd edit the second pic not to show your VIN number for your car.

Actualy, the front windshield doesn't have the etching, at least where the wipers go. But yes, it is decently pitted. However, it does have a lot of fine swirl marks, almost to the point it gets hard to see through when the sun is setting.

This is merely a problem of the previous owner NEVER washing the windows. The are so many water spots, and they must of happened for so long the etching is real deep. Vinegar hasn't worked, Autoglym glass polish didn't work, nothing... only bon ami so far.

[JohnZ3MC]

[QUOTE=JD886]Well I figured out that Bon Ami + fine steel wool (I only had 000 ) works wonders!!! I've used every glass cleaner, polish and vinegar on my windows, non of it works! In the first picture, all the windows look just like that, and won't get any better....

so...

Bon Ami + steel wool... WORKS! But... It leaves spiderweb-like marks...

Does anyone know of a mildly abrassive polish, either glass, or metal or something that will be abrasive enough to take out fine swirl marks in glass but leave it perfectly clear? If thats the case, I/we could potential have a way to restore glass to -- literaly -- brand new.

HELP
[QUOTE]
Cerium Oxide will fix your fine scratches and a search for it will answer your questions/concerns.
Let us know the final results,
-John C.

[JD886]

Cerium Oxide will fix your fine scratches and a search for it will answer your questions/concerns.
Let us know the final results,
-John C.

Thank you sir! I'm definately going to try and find a local shop that might have some, and oh, you all will definately see the results.

Question..

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/showCustom-0/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2000756/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2000756/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=Cerium%20Oxide

You used the polishing pad in the kit correct? After using that, was there any distortions of the optics? Do you know of anything that will work with the Porter Cable? I'd feel better using a random orbital..

[JD886]

Having never heard of Cerium Oxide before now, I was quite currious what it is, and how it works. This earth element is rather interesting...

from:

http://www.izm.com/glass/index.asp?fdate=7.29.2005

"Cerium oxide is commonly used to polish glass. It is typically used in the final stage of finishing to bring the glass surface to optical smoothness. Methods of application include buffing wheels, felt disks on flat grinders and similar processes.

The typical polishing compound works mechanically through abrasion. These compounds leave the glass surface rough -- but the scratches are so small they are not visible in typical uses. Cerium oxide works both mechanically and chemically.

When used with water -- which is recommended for effective polishing -- the cerium oxide contributes to a chemical reaction that actually reforms the molecular surface of the glass. The result is that some of the cerium bonds with the glass to form a layer of cerium silicate that fills microscopic defects in the glass surface (think wood putty). As the polishing continues, the unreacted cerium wears away much of the softer cerium silicate -- leaving the defects "filled" and the surface near perfectly smooth."

from:

http://www.molycorp.com/cerium_book.pdf

page 25

"Glass Polishing

The most efficient polishing agent, by far, for most glass compositions (particularly those
produced commercially in large volume) is cerium oxide.[41] This application consumes, either as
a moderately pure oxide or as a cerium-oxide-dominated concentrate, a significant portion of the
cerium products produced annually. Commercial glass polishes are based on cerium oxide powders
with defined particle sizes and controlled dispersibility in aqueous systems.

Polishing is the act of producing a sufficient degree of surface smoothness so that light,
transmitted or reflected at that surface, is not disturbed by surface irregularities. The polishing
mechanism is still poorly understood at the chemical/molecular level. Polishing results in glass
removal and does show a dependence on chemical properties of the glass. The nature of the liquid
present during polishing is crucial and only if active hydroxyl groups are present, in alcohols for
example but especially in water, does the polishing phenomenon happen.

When a glass - typically an alkali silicate - is in contact with water, a complicated series of
steps take place, ion exchange, dissolution of glass constituents and possible structural changes. A
surface region of the glass is modified and it is this softer hydrated layer that is removed or
reformed during glass polishing. Classic abrasives produce an improvement in surface finish but
leave a fine but definite roughness, the scale of which relates to the grain size of abrasive used.
Several not-so-hard oxides are reasonable polishing agents and can remove and/or reform the soft
hydrated layer. In general, optimum polishing rate coincides approximately with Moh's hardness
for the polish of around 6.5, very close to the hardness of most glasses.

The best polishing agent - as regards rate of glass removal and ultimate surface finish - is
cerium oxide slurried in water. This oxide contains the potential polyvalent cerium atom and redox
reactions, due to Ce(IV)/Ce(III), may well be providing chemical assistance to the breaking up of
the silicate lattice. In addition mobility within the hydrated layer around the ceric ion also plays a
role. Certain substances can act as accelerators for the polishing process. The best appears to be
Ce(OH)4, i.e. CeO2.2H2O, precipitated fresh, in situ, in the polishing slurry from a soluble Ce(IV)
salt, that probably is involved in an equilibrium reaction."

Others:

http://www.stellafane.com/atm/atm_mirror_ref/atm_grit.htm
http://www.fitchfamily.com/glass.html

[Casebrius]

so where do ya get the stuff?

[JD886]

so where do ya get the stuff?

I posted a link from JC Whitney. You can also simply search on google or yahoo and it'll come up with a bunch of places.

[JohnZ3MC]

I posted a link from JC Whitney. You can also simply search on google or yahoo and it'll come up with a bunch of places.
The jcwhitney link is where I got my kit quite a few years ago and it did an admirable job on the wife's Camaro windshield. Other posts mention the wiper scraped big arcs into the glass but they weren't really deep, but at a surface level. The kit from jcwhitney worked well but it did take time, 40 - 60 min. of polishing with the electric drill.
To this day, I still can't see where the scratches were and the windshield is still perfect.
We are just a little northwest of Seattle so my area gets about 30 inches of rain per year so the wiper blades have been working on the windshield for quite a bit since the repair years ago and still remain blemish free. The trick to the cerium oxide is not to give up too soon - keep polishing.
As for optical changes, none. The scratches I had weren't deep enough to alter the shape of the glass.
I think I still have enough of the powder to do a thousand more scratches, I just forget where I put it.
-John C.

[Casebrius]

I posted a link from JC Whitney. You can also simply search on google or yahoo and it'll come up with a bunch of places.
let us know how it turns out if you get some. It looks as though a felt polishing pad is the pad of choice.

[uansari1]

Perhaps this is the perfect use for that big white foam pad that comes with the Porter Cable? I have yet to use that for anything...

[neenja]

I had a little bit of overspray from painting of the front end - on my windshield. I took some glass cleaner and a "green" polishing pad for my portercable...spray and work in a circular motion with the pad...came right out.

Uansari ...it works really well, though i didn't try it with the portercable, i did this by hand. As long as you keep the area "wet", using glass cleaner, even water i suppose...should work pretty well :)

That second pic does look a LOT better than the first...wow

I'd be afraid to use Bon Ami though, heh...

[Casebrius]

Perhaps this is the perfect use for that big white foam pad that comes with the Porter Cable? I have yet to use that for anything...
BINGO!