replacing the cluster guage on my e39

[adnanm3]

hi everyone. I recently purchased a 2001 525i (no navigation) and im loving it so far. For some reason, my speedometer keeps getting stuck at 20mph and starts making sporadic motions at random times. I took it to the stealership and they said my speed sensor etc checked out fine so they would need to change my whole cluster.
Now since i have no warranty anymore (even though this probably woudlnt be covered) they want over $1000 to get me a new cluster and "calibrate it"

now my car has 58k on it. I searched around and found a cluster with 55k on it. this was the closest i could find to my own mileage. Now i havent even begun to take it apart and start looking at it. I just wanted to know how i could set this new cluster at 58k? I really dont feel like geting my car inspected and being accused to odo rollback.

Now i know the car has to store the milage somewhere other than the cluster itself. Is there some way i can calibrate it accordingly? And if i do all this, will the tamper light be on?
Keep in mind, i dont have any high tech macinery to do all this. Im just hoping i can pop the cluster in and all will be well...

[wheresthewagons]

The tamper light will appear after you do the swap. You will have to go to the dealership to have them reset everything after the swap. There is no way that im aware of to do it without the use of their machines. It shouldnt be anymore than an hours labor to get everything back to shape.

[killcrap]

the milage is stored in 4 places

1)EWS
2)IKE
3)LCM
4)your key

if you would like to copy the coding to your new cluster, just purchase this scantool. you will be able to change the vin # also on the cluster to match your own, there are two EEPROMS on the IKE.

http://www.techbmw.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1

[NickG]

Now since i have no warranty anymore (even though this probably woudlnt be covered) they want over $1000 to get me a new cluster and "calibrate it"


The dealer is overcharging you. List price on an E39 cluster is anywhere from $400-500. They need at most 1 hour of labor to install and program/code the unit. Heck, it'll take longer for their diag equipment to program it, than the tech to physically swap it.


now my car has 58k on it. I searched around and found a cluster with 55k on it. this was the closest i could find to my own mileage.

Installing a used cluster will cause the tamper light to illuminate. *BMW dealers DO NOT have the ability to reprogram the VIN in a used cluster to match your vehicle.*

BMW made their tools to only write the VIN to a new cluster. This keeps people from selling used parts (cuts down on parts theft). The only way you'll be able to successfully install a used cluster (with matching VIN and odometer) is to buy some aftermarket software that does the job (big $$$).

The software/tool listed in the link above will not work on the cluster in your vehicle. That software is a bootleg version and does not support the newer version of hardware and software in your particular E39.

[9dreizig]

So how about the other (BMW Carsoft Scanner V6.5) scantool mentioned on the website above ? It claims to be OBDII and compatible with most current BMW models including E39 and E60 till 10/2004.

(sorry, I seem to be unable to post direct links)

[NickG]

Carsoft is a diagnostic tool. It works as that. It will not change the VIN or mileage.

[adnanm3]

i think ill just install the new cluster and live with the tamper light...i just cant get any servicing done for another 3k miles :(

the light wont really bother me...i mean its because of me, so whatever

[Ahokas1979]

I own a 1997 540i with 125,000 miles on it. BMW North America knows that these clusters go bad way too early. You need to call their main number in NJ and they will cover the cost of a new cluster, you do have to complain about it a bit. The dealerships pretend not to know about this freebie. All you need to pay for is the labor. Mine was 45 minutes/$90.00 Well worth it!

[NickG]

I own a 1997 540i with 125,000 miles on it. BMW North America knows that these clusters go bad way too early. You need to call their main number in NJ and they will cover the cost of a new cluster, you do have to complain about it a bit. The dealerships pretend not to know about this freebie. All you need to pay for is the labor. Mine was 45 minutes/$90.00 Well worth it!

The fault/condition that you're talking about applies to the display matrix in the High Cluster (has the dot matrix display of the radio stations, functions, etc. at the bottom center of the cluster). That pixel display goes bad, and for THAT reason BMW is changing them out on a case-by-case basis (upon request of the customer). If the dot-matrix display in your cluster is good, OR, you don't have such a High Cluster installed, then chances are the repair won't be covered.

Of course, it couldn't hurt to ask.

[huy]

interesting.

[Lscman]

This thread contains bad assumptions about the functionality of various tools shown above. Nick knows what he's speaking about, but some other's don't. These tools don't "do that".

If you install a used speedometer from another car into your E39, a chronic tamper light will be present that can NOT be reset with any programming tool. If the odometer value of this used cluster is higher than the original, the new higher value will transfer to all odometer registers throughout your car once the ignition key is turned...boy, talk about nightmares. Independent service shops doing "parts swaps" to troubleshoot electronics issues learned this real quick & customers suffered the consequences.

There are no electronic reprogramming tools ANYWHERE (legal or illegal) allowing you to change the VIN number on a used BMW E39 speedometer. I found this out after researching the limitations of using salvage parts for troubleshooting and repair. A "write once" burned-in memory location is reserved for VIN, so it can not be erased or overwritten. You can read the VIN with various software tools and scanners, but you can not change it. You get a tamper light if VIN does not match between the various modules.

Illegal tools are designed for crooked auto resellers who turn back odometers. Obviously odometer readings are not stored in "write once" memory or burned in (lol). These tools are not designed to facilitate swapping of VIN-coded modules/speedos between different cars. This is not an "voluntary functional limitation" imposed by programming tool mfrs; it's an intentional limitation imposed by auto mfrs for VIN memory location (non-eraseable & write once). The only way to "correct" or otherwise change VIN coding on salvage or used parts is to unsolder memory chips and move them from one module to another or unsolder chips and clone them with a component programmer. As most folks know, tearing apart an E39 speedo assembly is generally destructive.

Frankly this anti-tamper hardware will make E39 service very difficult for backyard mechanics in the long term. I have been worrying about this for some time and trying to think of workarounds. I want to be able to install ebay or salvage stuff years when stuff fails.

Lastly, be aware that dealers can not reset mileage or VIN on any used module or speedo. They can only:

1) burn your VIN into a brand new speedo cluster. Once this is completed, the VIN is permanent. The same goes for other modules scattered about the car.
2) transfer the odometer reading from an existing module to a new module (in the case of bad pixels, after they confirm that VIN's match, they move the odometer reading stored in the Light Module to the new speedo cluster).
3) configure a new, brainless speedometer assembly to be 100% compatible with your car. The tire diameter and transmission type and other things are probrammed into your speedometer. If this is not done, some level of incompatibility will exist. If you review ETK, you will see that X5 SUV's with huge tires and different transmissions use the same part# as some cars.

[jdromeo215]

http://www.vdorepair.com/

[Vortec4800]

Hmm, I thought I remember reading about some of the 540i guys putting used M5 clusters in their cars. Guess that's incorrect then?

[KOLYAtheDJ]

very interesting topic, can anybody tell me how to spot the tamper light located in the cluster. I was looking at the cluster specs and there was nothing about tamper light location, maybe i was looking at the wrong place?

[killcrap]

what lscman said was partially incorrect. bmw scanner v1.2.5/1.3.5 can make a used cluster a brand new one. it can format the entire cluster. you can change the vin, and the milage. although carsoft 6.5 cannot do this anymore.
at bmw they will train there tech's to believe that you cannot alter cluster information since it is "write once" but the bmw scanner v1.2.5/1.3.5 can do this.

[Lscman]

what lscman said was partially incorrect. bmw scanner v1.2.5/1.3.5 can make a used cluster a brand new one. it can format the entire cluster. you can change the vin, and the milage. although carsoft 6.5 cannot do this anymore.
at bmw they will train there tech's to believe that you cannot alter cluster information since it is "write once" but the bmw scanner v1.2.5/1.3.5 can do this.

This is interesting news. It flys in the face of BMW literature and Tech Training. A BMW dealership repair shop will INSIST that used clusters can not be reprogrammed and hacker tools will not do it either. This leads one to believe the write-once claims & the chips used in the IKE are supposedly write once for the VIN to thwart professional tamper.

I'd like to hear if anybody actually got a VIN reset on a used display at a dealership.

Even VDORepair is not doing this. I think they'd be exchanging used speedo clusters with customers to simplify and expedite repair, if VIN recoding was possible. This strategy would allow them to increase sales & the appropriate odometer reading would simply download from the light module upon plug-in and key turn.

[killcrap]

This is interesting news. It flys in the face of BMW literature and Tech Training. A BMW dealership repair shop will INSIST that used clusters can not be reprogrammed and hacker tools will not do it either. This leads one to believe the write-once claims & the chips used in the IKE are supposedly write once for the VIN to thwart professional tamper.

I'd like to hear if anybody actually got a VIN reset on a used display at a dealership.

Even VDORepair is not doing this. I think they'd be exchanging used speedo clusters with customers to simplify and expedite repair, if VIN recoding was possible. This strategy would allow them to increase sales & the appropriate odometer reading would simply download from the light module upon plug-in and key turn.


seeing as i used to sell these scanners for $300, ive never had a dissatisifed customer. everyone who's bought one from me needed it for their instrument clusters. Ive also done some side jobs, and i have never seen the manipulation dot. nor when doing a short test, the Fault codes remain Fault Free.

[killcrap]

look some stuff on google. there are alot of tools out there even for the EWS3.3 Modules to reflash them to work with any car. its so easy to steal these cars, its not even funny.

[Lscman]

look some stuff on google. there are alot of tools out there even for the EWS3.3 Modules to reflash them to work with any car. its so easy to steal these cars, its not even funny.

That's fine & thanks for info, but:

The BMW Scanner Tool v 1.2.5/1.3.5 is clearly a rogue 3rd party BMW hacker tool, not a recognized or supported BMW shop service tool. Since this tool thwarts BMW anti-tamper measures, BMW has no part in it. Any BMW Tech using that tool in a shop is not following protocol. There are legitimate uses for such a memory reset tool, but I'm guessing that is not it's primary purpose or market. Somebody honest could surely use this tool to recycle used BMW salvage modules for ebay, that would otherwise have zero value for automotive repair or troubleshooting. That does interest me.

I spent some time reading the sketchy info about this tool found on the internet. It is apparently produced in mass quantities in Russia and Asia. One or more is probably cloned. It claims to reset or manipulate a odometer, but I see nothing suggesting it will allow you to overwrite a VIN in an IKE cluster or other module. The tiny memory space reserved for the IKE's VIN should be a write once register that differs from "constantly changing" odometer or run register. At least this is the case with some other odometers. The odometer reading is stored and updated in a register that can surely be manipulated by a hacker while the VIN is not. Again, this is what I read thru this search...could be wrong.

[killcrap]

read closer. here a picture of the unit in action.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1638/ike1pn7.jpg

"change FGSTNR"

FGSTNR is your vin

[Vortec4800]

read closer. here a picture of the unit in action.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1638/ike1pn7.jpg

"change FGSTNR"

FGSTNR is your vin

What other things can this tool do? I had VAG-COM for my Audi and used it all the time, and have been wanting to purchase a comparable code scaner/tool for my 540 as well. Do you still sell these?

[killcrap]

What other things can this tool do? I had VAG-COM for my Audi and used it all the time, and have been wanting to purchase a comparable code scaner/tool for my 540 as well. Do you still sell these?


yes i do sell these. but for price your only going to be using it for cluster functions, as v1.2.5 can only reset codes, and not read them out.

v1.3.5 can read and reset codes, and do newer cluster functions but it is a little bit more money.

i try not to sell these scanners anymore, i sell a different scanner and it is well worth the money, i will send you a PM

[alfiethero]

vdorepair.com is now clusterepair.com

[tdawg183]

Ok, so if I was to upgrade to the "high" cluster from the "low" cluster than this is what needs to be done? The vin and mileage have to be matched on the new(used) cluster to the car it is going in? Not to mention the other stuff mentioned here http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=499854
And thats it? no need for a brand new cluster?

[Lscman]

Ok, so if I was to upgrade to the "high" cluster from the "low" cluster than this is what needs to be done? The vin and mileage have to be matched on the new(used) cluster to the car it is going in? Not to mention the other stuff mentioned here http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=499854
And thats it? no need for a brand new cluster?

You are greatly oversimplifying the proposed swap. Firstly, these rogue reprogrammers only work on certain early date code clusters. Read the compatibility list and compare it to BMW service part# and ebay numbers...they differ. Newer Y2K vintage clusters are not listed because they are quite tamperproof & this includes one's that BMW is installing under good will warranty for failed pixels.

Over the years of E39 production, BMW sold lots of different vintage clusters with different part#'s that all fit the 5 series & each contains different electronics. Furthermore you are ignoring the fact that clusters are coded for the particular options on the vehicle. These things include the type of transmission and be advised there are several different codings for the various automatic tranny versions used over the years. If you're lucky enough to correct the mileage and VIN of a used speedo to conform to your car, the speedo may read wrong (too fast/too slow) or the thing might always alarm or display a big "P" for park or something stupid. This is what other's have posted after trying swaps. These rogue manipulation programmers do not reprogram for auto tranny type, manual tranny, tire sizes or X5 vs 540 etc. You will need to visit the dealer and they may or may not be able to overwrite this original programming.

[tdawg183]

ok, so are you saying that those programs mentioned above dont work for e39's? I was under the impression that the people that have done these swaps before did not do that to their cluster.

All other things aside, i don't have any personal problem with buying a new cluster... i just weighting the options.

[Lscman]

ok, so are you saying that those programs mentioned above dont work for e39's? I was under the impression that the people that have done these swaps before did not do that to their cluster.

All other things aside, i don't have any personal problem with buying a new cluster... i just weighting the options.

The issue is not white and black...this is what I mean by over-simplification. According to programmer tool claims, a used, salvage speedos can SOMETIMES be installed & reprogrammed to repair pixel troubles or busted speedo assy. I am saying the programmer mentioned above might work for you under certain conditions. To ensure success, you must follow a strict formula and work within the confines of it's limited flexibility:

1) you must buy a used speedometer that has mileage lower than yours, so it does not update/overwrite the immobilizer mileage register. This tool can NOT reset immobilizer registers on most cars. If this happens, you're screwed.
2) the used speedo must have a BMW part# listed on the programmer compatibility chart. Generally the cluster must be older than 2001 or so, such that it contains "early vintage" odometer anti-tamper chips that have been cracked by hackers thru the maintenance bus. I am not sure what the cutoff date is for these speedos & the compatibility list suggests it varies by part#. Any later vintage E39 cars or early car speedos replaced by BMW thru the pixel program will not fit this description. Again, the compatibility chart must be reviewed by BMW part# to determine whether the programmer will work.
3) the used speedo is for the same year car as yours
4) the donor car had the same EXACT tranny type as yours
5) the speedo is not broken
6) the speedo is from the same model car, so the speedo MPH reads correct

If any of these things don't hold true, you could butcher your car electronics or waste money and time. A dealer may not be able to reprogram/calibrate the speedo assembly to work with your car.

If the above 6 rules are followed, your salvage speedo should update with the mileage from your light module & the result will be the same as visiting the dealership for a std pixel repair. No tamper will be detectable & you'll have a spare speedo that you can send to VDOrepair to get the pixels fixed for $300. This is assuming the programming tool works as claimed & I'm sure as heck not guaranteeing anything. I do not have a programmer and I can not vouch for it's function....just reading the web site claims and explaining it's glaring limitations from an electronic programming perspective.

The ultimate result will be the same as visiting the dealership and paying full retail to get a new speedo installed. In these cases, I hear most dealerships will give you your old speedo upon request. Then it can be sent to VDOrepair. A spare, properly programmed speedo is a good thing, since pixels crap out every 3 yrs. When BMW pulls the plug on free speedos, this will become an E39 nightmare. When you pop an old out-of-service spare speedo into your dash, it should update with the current mileage, so IMO, this is not a tamper issue.

[tdawg183]

Thank you, I bet I'm not the only one that wanted to know that.

[cluster]

i must apologise for digging up a very old thread, but must give thanks for help! :)


read closer. here a picture of the unit in action.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1638/ike1pn7.jpg

"change FGSTNR"

FGSTNR is your vin

nickg and lscman seem to be not wanting to promote this "rogue software"
almost seems like they are defending BMW or something with their protective posts! :lol

i did a google search for how to remove tamper dot and found this thread, with the help of killcrap i removed the one that was showing on my car :buttrock

reason it was showing is because of a used unit replace the original faulty one, and the vin coding was different to that of the other mileage memories on the car.
i changed it using the info of the quoted post above, and the dot went out immediately (all lights reset, cluster turns off then on, and tamper dot is out)

it reset the date and some other easily changeable information (stalk settings, time, date, blablabla, simple stuff that takes seconds to change back) but was well worth it :redspot

CHEERS killcrap :D

anyone have info on how to find fault with dsc light? it keeps coming on, even after i reset fault codes, sometimes it will stay out for a while, sometimes it will come back on immediately i cant see what is making it do this, however im going to start off with a new brake switch because one time after i reset it, i hit the brake and the light showed immediately :( thats my guess, just wanna know if anyone else has experienced it!!!

here in london we have some crap icy weather and the DSC is quite much needed at sometimes (whereas sometimes its just pure shit and doesnt help at all lol) :rolleyes

[jagerhund]

hi everyone. I recently purchased a 2001 525i (no navigation) and im loving it so far. For some reason, my speedometer keeps getting stuck at 20mph and starts making sporadic motions at random times. I took it to the stealership and they said my speed sensor etc checked out fine so they would need to change my whole cluster.
Now since i have no warranty anymore (even though this probably woudlnt be covered) they want over $1000 to get me a new cluster and "calibrate it"

Personally.... I would not take the dealer's word on the cluster, why don't you check the gauge using the OBC Unlock tests. Test #2 for both Hi and Lo cluster will test your instrument cluster. The problem just might be your speed sensor!!

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=14994497#post14994497

[killcrap]

i must apologise for digging up a very old thread, but must give thanks for help! :)



nickg and lscman seem to be not wanting to promote this "rogue software"
almost seems like they are defending BMW or something with their protective posts! :lol

i did a google search for how to remove tamper dot and found this thread, with the help of killcrap i removed the one that was showing on my car :buttrock

reason it was showing is because of a used unit replace the original faulty one, and the vin coding was different to that of the other mileage memories on the car.
i changed it using the info of the quoted post above, and the dot went out immediately (all lights reset, cluster turns off then on, and tamper dot is out)

it reset the date and some other easily changeable information (stalk settings, time, date, blablabla, simple stuff that takes seconds to change back) but was well worth it :redspot

CHEERS killcrap :D

anyone have info on how to find fault with dsc light? it keeps coming on, even after i reset fault codes, sometimes it will stay out for a while, sometimes it will come back on immediately i cant see what is making it do this, however im going to start off with a new brake switch because one time after i reset it, i hit the brake and the light showed immediately :( thats my guess, just wanna know if anyone else has experienced it!!!

here in london we have some crap icy weather and the DSC is quite much needed at sometimes (whereas sometimes its just pure shit and doesnt help at all lol) :rolleyes

you dont say which model varient you have for e39. did the DSC lamp come on after or before cluster replacement? if the coding in the instrument cluster does not match the vehicle options level, then the DSC lamp will continue to illuminate even if attemp to clear the fault. You have access to a scanner but you do not post the codes? Just clearing the codes doesnt fix it. i will assume the following

2000-2003 6cyl 5er. standard with DSC

suspect DSC faults for DSC pressure sensor, or wheel speed sensors, implausible signal. suspect DSC control module malfunction. send module out to be repaired. $400.

[cluster]

you dont say which model varient you have for e39. did the DSC lamp come on after or before cluster replacement? if the coding in the instrument cluster does not match the vehicle options level, then the DSC lamp will continue to illuminate even if attemp to clear the fault. You have access to a scanner but you do not post the codes? Just clearing the codes doesnt fix it. i will assume the following

2000-2003 6cyl 5er. standard with DSC

suspect DSC faults for DSC pressure sensor, or wheel speed sensors, implausible signal. suspect DSC control module malfunction. send module out to be repaired. $400.

its e39 530d auto, 2003 model.

i will make a note of the codes next time i check it, but for now the DSC light has been off for a while.

the bmw scanner tool i use doesnt tell you what the codes mean, it just gives a code and i dont have a table to read them. ill try another tool which my friend has that one actually tells you the fault, im happy now though because got the stupid tamper dot off and the dsc is working (FOR NOW!) :redspot :buttrock

[energizedmortal]

I got a DSC light after matching my VINS because I only matched the VIN in the IKE. The LEW which has steering angle was not coded to the corresponding VIN, once I coded my VIN on the LEW the DSC worked again.

[xaxis360]

I have a friend with a tamper DOT on as well. His cluster was replaced with a used unit by the previous owner thus having a different VIN. Mileage seems to be OK. Any info on this software would be nice!

[biggyalex]

i hope some one can HELP me, i changed my cluster with a used one ,i dont have the temper light on every thing is great. just that i lost my clock on my radio.is there a way u can program your radio to ur cluster .....high cluster