LS1 swap into an E34 or E39?

[mpolans]

I've heard of a few being people swapping an LS1 into an E36 3-series. Does anyone know if it has been done with an E34 or E39 5-series? If so, anyone have any pics, links, etc.?

[bähnstormer]

i've never heard of it...what do u have in your miata?

[slandis]

I've heard of a few being people swapping an LS1 into an E36 3-series. Does anyone know if it has been done with an E34 or E39 5-series? If so, anyone have any pics, links, etc.?

There have been a couple LS1 swaps done in E34's but the links escape me at the moment. I've pondered an LS1+T56 swap for my E34 in the past... always end up just dreaming about a built S62.

[shragon]

ls1's in e36's: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4919599&postcount=29

[mpolans]

i've never heard of it...what do u have in your miata?

My Miata just has an intake, header, exhaust, light flywheel, light underdrive pulley, light 15" wheels, and good tires. Nothing too radical.

I know about the LS1 into an E36 swaps...already found a ton of links by doing a search.

I just can't find anything on swapping an LS1 or LS2 into an E34. I hope this thread doesn't get hijacked by folks interested in the E36 swap.

[liquidtiger720]

ls1's in e36's: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4919599&postcount=29


OT: Hey Rob. I saw your car today at safeway. I parked right next to you. Car is looking good. :buttrock

[supark]

nice - screw the stereotypes about the Miata being a chick car - for how much fun they are to drive it's worth a couple smirks at stoplights. Heck, I've heard of some monster turbo-charged Miatas... been thinking of getting an older one to tinker with.

haven't heard of an LS1 E34 or E39 - but I'm sure it can be done with enough work...

[323I Junkie]

Its an awesome idea

[Dark Helmet]

the E39 is haarder to justify, because you can make similar power with a turbo 528, the E34, mmmmmmmm, wicked.....

[323I Junkie]

I ve thought about the turbo 528 wagon route, I prefer the e34 525 m50 wagon for that, but..............

the e39 is a shade bigger, which is a growing consideration. At this point, the sobering thought of us being a 7-7-7 family is pretty real (L7, e32 735, e38 740iL)

[shragon]

OT: Hey Rob. I saw your car today at safeway. I parked right next to you. Car is looking good. :buttrock lol, wtf? how long were you there for??

[LJSE34]

I'm stupid, I know... Isn't the LS1 a chevy corvette engine? If you want to put that in a bmw I don't think you understand what bmw means.

[UtOhCop]

I'm stupid, I know... Isn't the LS1 a chevy corvette engine? If you want to put that in a bmw I don't think you understand what bmw means.


I can't wait to hear this. Enlighten us what it means.

[Lscman]

The 540i is nice overall, except for it's unserviceable & costly M62 motor, Getrag Type 226 6spd transmission and open differential. Who wants to pay $5K for a reman tranny or $8K for a reman motor? Nobody rebuilds them cheaply due to the alusil cylinders and exhorbitant sole-source costs for the BMW reciprocating assembly.

Realize that a BMW dealer will want about $10K-12K to repair a 540i with a bad motor. This means a '97 or '98 540i or 740i with high miles & bad motor is essentially "totalled". Do we junk these 8 year old cars?? Interesting situation, as 25 year old GM cars get fresh engines without such economical hardship.

A Chevy V8 engine retrofit sound like a great way to revive a BMW with a defective motor. You get twice the power for less money, better gas mileage & parts are sold everywhere. The trick is doing the swap without creating a basket case.

I miss the 31 MPG my Corvette offered at 75 MPH. I'm lucky to see 23 MPG in the 540i. The Vette is more frugal than most 525i or 944T on the highway.

[323I Junkie]

plus the lLS1 will make a pretty reliable 500 crank horsepower with mostly stock parts sort of

Isnt that close to new M5 territory?

at 6.0 liters, your there solidly

[Lscman]

plus the lLS1 will make a pretty reliable 500 crank horsepower with mostly stock parts sort of

Isnt that close to new M5 territory?

at 6.0 liters, your there solidly

It's all about power under the curve, so peak horsepower is almost meaningless. The Corvette V8 motors pull like a John Deere under 3K RPM & it produces tremendous power from 3500 RPM upward. They jump when you press the throttle and downshift is optional. The M62 feels gutless in comparison. If it's under 4000 RPM, you must downshift to see good acceleration. I've driven both long enough to know.

[txminime]

Have you seen this monster? (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379043)

[mpolans]

I'm stupid, I know... Isn't the LS1 a chevy corvette engine? If you want to put that in a bmw I don't think you understand what bmw means.

Yes, you're stupid... :rolleyes

Yes, I've seen posts on the LS1 Miata. I have a Miata and hang out regularly at www.miataforum.com where they have an entire forum dedicated to swaps into a Miata.

But what I haven't seen is any info on swapping an LS1 or LS2 into an E34 or E39.

[supark]

oh my god - that's frickin sick! Talk about a sleeper

http://www.ls1miata.net/albums/miata/miata_004.sized.jpg

[xatlas0]

I've never seen a LS-1 in a 5-er. Never read about it anywhere, either, so I'd guess it hasn't been done. Usually strange swaps like this are pretty well documented, or at least heard of. Doing such a swap in an E39 would be a nearly criminal waste of money, as it would kill the value of the car. You could pick up a 89 525 manual or auto for a few thousand if you want nice paint and gut it to your heart's content, as it isn't worth a whole lot to begin with. An e39, however, is still worth a substantial sum, regardless of the model. Heck, even a 97 525 is still worth at least 10k if it hasn't been trashed. It's just not worth the loss in value. Plus e34's look better anyway. :D

A nice idea, pretty similar to the bimmubishi guy. One thing is for sure, it would completely change the driving dynamic of the car.

[323I Junkie]

Ive seen high mileage e39's go for 8 grand :rolleyes:
Value of the car my ass!

As LCSman said, their is no "driving dynamic" loss by puting the LS1 in a BMW

I know the rest of the elitist world hates to admit it, but not everythign that comes from the USA is inferior. I know the rest of the world also hates to admit it that while they were wildly pursuing oerhead cams and 4 valves per cylinder, GM quietly sat abck and created the Gen III small block with one cam and two valves per cylinder and blew the rest of the sleeping world away with a 350 horsepower 350 cubic inch V8 that makes nearly 400 lb/ft of torque. This moster eventually grew to 6.0 405 hp, and then 7 liter 500+ HP.

The saddest thing is, that the ultimate engine builders themselves were constrained by their portly vehicle wieght which led to the 4.4 305 horse motor that only mustered an average of 250 to 260 whp. Althought the e39 540/6 is an AWESOME CAR, it is virtually unmodifiable and against correctly driven LS1 cars, its has no chance. Sure you can supercharge it, but I dare you to find one thread on here where people are getting 300 to 350 whp out of e39's. Im not knocking the e39 one bit, but how in the all fired hell would putting in a smoothly running, terribly fuel efficient (in my 3500 pound TA's, I always got 25 or 27 on the highway even after mods) and brutishly powerful LS1 in a 560/6 hurt anythign other than probably making it 20% faster? How many of you would honestly turn down 400 HP and 450 lb/ft in YOUR e39 if you didnt sacrifice fuel consumption?

The sick thing is, a Kenne Belle or similar supercharger on that and youve ust boosted yourself into the 600 horse arena. E60 M5's be damned, you have a lightweight all aluminum engine and 6 speeds in a BMW superb chassis. AS long as the swap is neat, professional, and looks stock, its not a ba thing



I dont have my head in the sand folks. And if anyone has drive 545 or even a new 530, you will realize that BMW doesnt either. They took wha tthe e39 was missing, legroom and power and fixed it nicely. The 545/6 will blwo the doors off an e39 540/6 6 ways from sunday. SHoot, the 530 is nealry as fast as the old auto 540.Im not knocking them, but lets face it. Back when the e34 was designed, the 535 was great, when the 540 came out, what elese was there? Nowadays, cars are very fast stock. My 535 is no match for a frikkin nissan altima 3.5. The old 540's are great too, but they are 14 to 15 second cars, Lets face it, theyve been outdated. If performance is you concern, you have to mod, mod, mod. Somecases, you modded e34/e39 will only be as fast, not faster, than the new competition. We arent in the smog wars anymore, where and exhaust, intake, and axle gears and mayeb cams would make you King of the Street.THe e34 and e39 were great for their day, but if you like the car and you like to race, their power and even potential power is not very compettive by todays standards, even turbocharged. The LS1 swap would put nearly or more power in the e34/e39 chassis than even FI six cylinders. It would take down the M5. And maybe thats what is upsetting everyone. Maybe you guys dont read , but the M5's already been mathced by the Alpina Supercharged 545

[xatlas0]

I meant that it would simply change the way the car drives, just like any other major modification. I didn't say good or bad.

I think it is a really cool idea. I do think, however, that it would be very difficult because of the way newer BMWs are built. E39s have so many dang electronics that doing such a swap would be pretty hard just to get the computers to let the car start. In an e34, it would be much less of a problem. It's not like the 60's and 70's, where all you had to worry about was engine bay space. (of course, given the normal car size, that wasn't much of an issue either.)

As for value, ok, if you say so. or perhaps if you got one with a blown engine. Still, though, doing this to an e34 would be a lot easier and cheaper.

[323I Junkie]

e34 would be faster too

hot rods arent an investment, they are a money pit :D

$168K in my life on cars :(

not a damn thing to show for it, spread myself too thin , too many cars, cant finish any :(

[Jordan94530i]

79 TA... My uncle has one too, only around 70k original miles... Nice cars..

I have thought about how cool it would be to put the LT1 from my camaro in my 530, but I have also considered how cool it would be to put the LT1 in our 70 chevelle SS in our shop...

[323I Junkie]

You got a 70 Chevelle :eek:

Awesome :buttrock:

Dude, put a big block with AFR heads and a 750 Demon carb!

[mpolans]

I meant that it would simply change the way the car drives, just like any other major modification. I didn't say good or bad.

I think it is a really cool idea. I do think, however, that it would be very difficult because of the way newer BMWs are built. E39s have so many dang electronics that doing such a swap would be pretty hard just to get the computers to let the car start. In an e34, it would be much less of a problem. It's not like the 60's and 70's, where all you had to worry about was engine bay space. (of course, given the normal car size, that wasn't much of an issue either.)

As for value, ok, if you say so. or perhaps if you got one with a blown engine. Still, though, doing this to an e34 would be a lot easier and cheaper.

I was actually thinking primarily of an E34, but as the new 5-series comes out, I figured prices on E-39s should drop.

While I don't have exact weights handy, I believe a fully dressed LS1 weighs around 450lbs. I'd think the DOHC v-8 found in the 540i has got to weigh more than that.

By swapping in the LS1, I'd figure a few things would be accomplished:
1. In the E34, some 540is had problems with Nikasil plated cylinders. Not a problem with the LS1.
2. Significantly increased horsepower and torque. From around 280-290hp/295-324ft-lbs at the crank to around 350-400hp/345-400ft-lbs. (depending on LS1/LS6/LS2) at the crank, stock. Obviously, this is comparing the swap to a 540i, the most powerful 5-er without going to the expensive M5. If you compare it to the 525i, the gains are even more pronounced.
3. Easier performance upgrades, since GM stuff is more common.
4. Cheaper maintenance in the long term, since GM stuff is more common and cheaper.
5. Reduced weight. I think this might be a very real possibility, but I need more info to say for sure.

My concerns are:
1. Physical fit. While I believe the 540i's v-8 is generally bigger, I wonder if there are any particular points, like the steering rack, brake booster, or something, that would interfere with the swap. I know this has come up with swaps into the E36.
2. Swap the BMW manual transmission and rear end out too or not. How much power can they handle, can they be easily made to mate to the GM block? Or would it be better to swap in a transmission too and keep the BMW rearend? Or would the rearend have to be upgraded too?
3. Electrical. This is a biggie, since it seems BMWs have lots of electrical stuff. I'd like to have everything work without constant CELs going off. Obviously, I need major instruments like speedo, tach, and HVAC stuff to work. I don't know how to do any of the electrical stuff. This problem would likely be worse on an E39 compared to an E34, but I don't know how much worse.

If the swap costs less than $10k or so, I figured it'd be easy to build a car that could stomp an M5, yet be cheaper to maintain, cheaper to upgrade, and less obtrusive. Heck, with the right gearing, it might even have better fuel economy.
If the swap is done to an E34, you could have E39 M5 stomping performance for about half the cost.

[TRAyres]

The E39's are all OBDII, aren't they? That means they've got quite a few extra sensors, none of which you can trip if you want your car to be street legal (in california, at least).

But the E39's engine is so large compared to the LS1, if you could fit a set of stock LS1 headers that are already smog-certified, up to the pre-cats, into an E39, that would be most of the problem with smog legality.

That is to say nothing of wiring, of course.

[slandis]

I've never seen a LS-1 in a 5-er. Never read about it anywhere, either, so I'd guess it hasn't been done. Usually strange swaps like this are pretty well documented, or at least heard of. Doing such a swap in an E39 would be a nearly criminal waste of money, as it would kill the value of the car. You could pick up a 89 525 manual or auto for a few thousand if you want nice paint and gut it to your heart's content, as it isn't worth a whole lot to begin with. An e39, however, is still worth a substantial sum, regardless of the model. Heck, even a 97 525 is still worth at least 10k if it hasn't been trashed. It's just not worth the loss in value. Plus e34's look better anyway. :D

A nice idea, pretty similar to the bimmubishi guy. One thing is for sure, it would completely change the driving dynamic of the car.

http://black.plague.org/e39ls1.jpg
http://black.plague.org/e39ls1i.jpg

I'd say it's been done. :D

Though, I can't find any more info about it. That doesn't mean much, perhaps the guy wants it to stay rather secretive.

[323I Junkie]

holy cow

Yeah, the electronics would be shot.

Youd probably be better off removing most of them, of cours,e the BMW electronics should for the most part fire and inject an LS1...

I would jsut disconnect the CEL, the engien computer. Take some tiem with a manual and find out what talks to what. Like the climate control and body moduel, what info do they get from the engine system?

[mpolans]

Wow, that's even twin turbo...I'd love to find out more about that car! Even though I'm not planning on going the turbo route; at least, not initially.

Regarding Kalifornia's police-state psychotic smog laws, I don't care. I'm not in CA, I'm in TX. I plan on staying in free states.

[xatlas0]

Daaang. That thing would eat just about everything alive. Major props to that guy!

A fully dressed M60 weighs about 350 lbs based on my figures.

The main mechanical concern I'd have is the mating of the trannie to the block. Most BMW manual transmissions are pretty good. As an example, the trannie I'm putting in my CS, a Getrag 265, has reliably handled more than 600 ft-lbs with no internal modifications. I am pretty sure the starter wopuld cause problems, but I do not know how the starter is placed on a LS1. At the very least, a custom bellhousing would probably be required. If you got a 265, it wouldn't be an issue, as the bellhousing is a seperable piece from the actual transmission. Another mechanicl issue of linking the two is the fact that BMW uses a guibo, rather than double universal joints. So, if you wanted to keep the diff (not a bad idea, since the speed sender is in there) you would have to get a custom driveshaft made. Not that big a deal, really.

For fitting, the steering rack would your main concern, as in my 540, the brake booster is where the battery usually goes. (right behind the driver's side headlight unit)

As for cost, if you did it yourself, I guess it could be done for less than 10k. It would require a lot of custom fabrication.

[Lscman]

I meant that it would simply change the way the car drives, just like any other major modification............As for value, ok, if you say so. or perhaps if you got one with a blown engine. Still, though, doing this to an e34 would be a lot easier and cheaper.

The weight of the all-aluminum pushrod LS1 motor is very close M62. The car would not drive differently....aside from having a new-found ability to accelerate briskly at low rev's.

It is generally easier to modify & repair older cars. This fact will not change. When the engine in an E39 expires, doing a swap in an E34 does not resolve the problem (lol).

I predict that BMW resale values on E38 and up generation cars will suffer due to serviceability & parts issues.

Resale values on V8 E38 and E39 have already plummeted.....cars that sold new for $55K-$60K just 7 years ago are now selling for 25% ($13K-15K). Why worry about "value" when the motor is bad and the car's book value is less than the repair estimate? These cars are hardly collectible, so originality/correctness is moot.

A Northstar or Ford Cobra motor might be a simpler candidate. The these 32v engines are more similar & might accept BMW M62 DME engine management with some coaxing (mods).

[xatlas0]

You act as though the parts issue is specific to E39s. It is endemic to all BMWs. I have found part costs for my E9 from 1973, and they are comprable to the current costs of similar BMW parts. Wether the engine blows in the e34 or the e39, or heck even an e12, it will cost a lot to fix if you get new parts. It is a sucky part of owning a BMW, there is no getting around it. The decline in resale is similar to other luxury cars, like mercs.

Swapping in a different mark's engine, no matter what kind it is, would be no easy task. Luckily, since most cars have a three point electrical harness, you no longer have to re-wire the whole car, but rather fashion an adapter between the other harness branches when you change the engine branch.

[323I Junkie]

yeah but the cobra engine is another torquless wonder. Just ask the Marauder

[Derek 350i]

DO IT.

I would start with a 540 if you are doing an e34. It already has the break master cyl moved out of the way for a v8. This was my biggest PITA on my e30 LS1 swap (in progress). I have an e34 525 & 540 + a LS1 block, heads and intake if you need any dimensions or anything. You would need to use the GTO oil pan as it is the only current offering with a front drop oil pan. I can assure you if the m60 will fit, the LS1 will fit just fine.

Don't think this hasn't crossed my mind to do myself, but I need to get the e30 finished first.

D

[JAlfredPrufrock]

I've been dreaming of putting an LS6 into my e34 535i for quite some time.

Hopefully after I finish college I will make it a reality.

[unesential]

You can buy the kit for a Jag so I would think it is possible. I think it would be easier in an e34 electronics wise as there is more room to play with OBD1. As with any engine swap I am sure there will lots of time in setting up the parts to get it to wrk. Start the project and keep us posted.

[91M5]

I think you can pick up used GTO's in the low $20k's if not less. Why go through all the work to put it in a BMW?

I do think there is a big difference between a 600hp LS6 and the V10 in the M5. The long powerband and revs gives the car balance that isn't there with the 7.0 liter torque monster. Sure, dropping an LS1 in any car will make it faster but that doesn't mean you should do it. My friend is in the process of doing it to an E24 and if you were paying by the hour for the fabrication it would be way over $20,000. BTW, the starter is causing lots of problems and may required a redesign of the steering linkage.

Go find yourself a used M5 stroker. They aren't very expensive anymore and it is always fun hanging with some monster V8 with a little 'ole six cylinder.

Personally, I think BMW means balance between the car's power and chassis. The engine should not overwhelm the handling of the car. A 600hp E34 is not a balanced car unless the steering wheel is pointed straight. Sure it would be fun for a while but you would end up selling it for 25% of what you paid to do it.

[JAlfredPrufrock]

I think you can pick up used GTO's in the low $20k's if not less. Why go through all the work to put it in a BMW?

I do think there is a big difference between a 600hp LS6 and the V10 in the M5. The long powerband and revs gives the car balance that isn't there with the 7.0 liter torque monster. Sure, dropping an LS1 in any car will make it faster but that doesn't mean you should do it. My friend is in the process of doing it to an E24 and if you were paying by the hour for the fabrication it would be way over $20,000. BTW, the starter is causing lots of problems and may required a redesign of the steering linkage.

Go find yourself a used M5 stroker. They aren't very expensive anymore and it is always fun hanging with some monster V8 with a little 'ole six cylinder.

Personally, I think BMW means balance between the car's power and chassis. The engine should not overwhelm the handling of the car. A 600hp E34 is not a balanced car unless the steering wheel is pointed straight. Sure it would be fun for a while but you would end up selling it for 25% of what you paid to do it.

I laugh at this post.

[91M5]

Could you be more specific? Not sure why anyone here would own ANY BMW if so enamored with the LS1..

[JAlfredPrufrock]

Could you be more specific? Not sure why anyone here would own ANY BMW if so enamored with the LS1..

I can't like both?

[91M5]

Sure, but I guess I don't understand why someone would already likes BMW's for what they are needs to totally change the character of the car to enjoy it. There are plenty of ways to get a power fix that are much less costly (e.g., a used Z06).

[JAlfredPrufrock]

Sure, but I guess I don't understand why someone would already likes BMW's for what they are needs to totally change the character of the car to enjoy it. There are plenty of ways to get a power fix that are much less costly (e.g., a used Z06).

Some people don't want a used z06, some people want a four door sleeper with a style all its own.

You can put an LS6 engine into an e34 but you can't put the e34's design and character into a z06.

[MMMM_ERT]

I owned an 01 Camaro SS with the LS1 motor...aside from making gobs of power (315 RWHP)...the motor was a piece of sh*t. Drank oil like it was going out of style (it's a common problem). They also are known for piston slap due to poor manufacturing tolerances.

I can't understand why anyone would want to put in a sub-standard quality motor into a high-end car. :confused

[Lscman]

I owned an 01 Camaro SS with the LS1 motor...aside from making gobs of power (315 RWHP)...the motor was a piece of sh*t. Drank oil like it was going out of style (it's a common problem). :confused

FYI, oil consumption is similarly problematic with the S62 V8 found in E39 M5. Folks with low mile cars have gotten motors replaced under warranty for this issue....customers are told to forget about it where usage is less than 1 qt every 500 mi.

Some Chevrolet LS1 do use excessive oil, but a reman factory engine does not cost $25K (like M5). Even if it's out-of-warranty, the rehone repair with fresh rings is under $5K, incl 100% labor. This is because the GM cylinders can be machined or refinished.

[323I Junkie]

I owned an 01 Camaro SS with the LS1 motor...aside from making gobs of power (315 RWHP)...the motor was a piece of sh*t. Drank oil like it was going out of style (it's a common problem). They also are known for piston slap due to poor manufacturing tolerances.

I can't understand why anyone would want to put in a sub-standard quality motor into a high-end car. :confused

You are terribly misinformed. As the first person in NM to be certified to service them, I know a thing or two about gen 1's

The piston slap is due to a centrally located pin which doesnt bias towards major or minor thrust surfaces.

Oil consumption? No. Oil leakage, yes

That motor is world class, and most of its problems were assembler problems.

[MMMM_ERT]

You are terribly misinformed. .

Please don't assume and make a statement like that. You may be certified to work on them, but I know many people who have LS1s. I've have spent a LOT of time on f-body boards and have seen the MULTITUDE of piston slap and oil consumption complaints.

My 01 LS1 needed a quart every 1K miles or less, it gets sucked through the PCV system and fouls plugs. 100K miles between plug changes was a line of Bullsh*t from GM.

The LS1 motor, as far as I'm concerned, is a pile of crap that makes great power. Thats my 02 cents.

[MMMM_ERT]

but a reman factory engine does not cost $25K (like M5). Even if it's out-of-warranty, the rehone repair with fresh rings is under $5K, incl 100% labor. This is because the GM cylinders can be machined or refinished.

Tru dat. ;)

[323I Junkie]

Im sorry, I didnt realize you had a DOctorate in MEssage boards :rofl: :rofl: :biglaughb:


Do you ever think about what you type?

Heres what you said;

"I dont care if you know exactly what you are talking about, have worked on hundreds of them, and all my information is second or third hand. Im still right '

Oh shit! :rofl: :rofl:

Go back to school :shifty:

Ive owned two (recently), worked on hundreds

By the way, 1 quart every 800 to 1000 miles is considered acceptable (its not really)

If you are sucking it through your PCV, maybe, did you ever think, you should see why?

(Plugged breahters, incorrect PCV for your altittude, etc)

Plus, message boards are bitchfests, if you want to find out how cars really are, go to the OPPOSING forum, like here, all you deal with is a few leaks and a PCV sucking oil. You cant believe the shit we take off of our bimmers

[323I Junkie]

Oh, one less thing, many TA's called for 0w-30 or 0w-50 oil.

THOSE THAT DID NOT SHOULD GET SYNTHETIC 5W-40OR EVEN 5W-50!

There are fundamnetal build differences in the motors, GM is famous for not telling people that. Ever wonder why the 35'th anniversery and that commerative yellow one alwyas put down about 315 to 320 bone, bone stock...?

[MMMM_ERT]

Gotta love message board self-appointed "experts" :rolleyes

Anyone interested...do a search for "piston slap" and "oil consumption" on the various f-body/GTO/Corvette forums for some real world info.

Oh yeah...do a search on "LS1 catch cans" too. ;)

[323I Junkie]

You have know idea who or what you are talking about
People drive the living shit out of those motors. Anytime you do that, you will use oil.

Why would I do a search?
Its a simple problem witha godawful easy fix.
Try figuring out onan e34 why when you engage the right turn signal the OBC flashes and the switch is fine, theres a real issue, not the age old oil/consumption, piston slap welcome-to-1999 shit.

I was getting SSM's form GM on that stuff before you probably ever bought your first LS1 car

ANybody in a real speed shop or repair facility will literally laugh you out of the building if you tell them to search message boards :rofl:

[Dukes]

ANybody in a real speed shop or repair facility will literally laugh you out of the building if you tell them to search message boards :rofl


LOL @ :lol

[Jordan94530i]

My brother has a 2000 SS and he has slight oil usage issue. But nothing on a large scale. It is worth it, to say the engine is not of BMW standards is pretty silly.

[323I Junkie]

BMW's use oil too

[MMMM_ERT]

ANybody in a real speed shop or repair facility will literally laugh you out of the building if you tell them to search message boards :rofl:

:lol

REally...funny how many times I had to carry into the dealer a printed out TSB that I got off a message board that the idiot dealer didn't even know about. :rolleyes




It is worth it, to say the engine is not of BMW standards is pretty silly.

Wow...There is no comparison in my book. The reason I left GM after 18 years was: A.) Horrible dealer service and warranty BS (18 years of service at at least 10 different dealers from San Fran to San Diego) B.) Engineering quality.

I've owned 6 new GM cars in those 18 years...none of which come close to BMW standards.

All my .02 cents of course. ;)

[MMMM_ERT]

not the age old oil/consumption, piston slap welcome-to-1999 shit.



1999 you say? How about 04 LS1 GTOs?

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:YhVUxfNbd5kJ:www.ls7gto.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D10221+gto+ls1+oil+consumption&hl=en

I also have a friend who has an 04 GTO with oil consumption and piston slap.

You'd think after 5 years GM would have fixed the problem. :rolleyes

[323I Junkie]

They dont care. The LS1/LS6 etc are high performance engines. Theres a reason for the oil consumption, and most people ignore it. Now, in truck blocks, thats a different story.

YEs, most dealers have crappy techs, terrible service. I wouldnt be suprised if you printed off a TSB



And to all my BFC friends. Im not knocking message boards. But unless you back up information with verifiable rescources, its just heresay.I trust many people personally on here, but what Im saying is, you cant quote a message board in a research paper unless you prove its valididity of content

[gsn794]

I've been dreaming of putting an LS6 into my e34 535i for quite some time.

Hopefully after I finish college I will make it a reality.

I think the LS6 has a throttle by wire set up, in which case you may not be able to get it to work in an E34. Not to worry though - there are tons of mods for the LS1. The new LS7 will be a monster, but will also have throttle by wire, unfortunately. :D

[323I Junkie]

You just need the GM computer, or un a mechanical throttle :shrug:

Its what everyone does on the M70

[JAlfredPrufrock]

Yeah I'm not fond of TBW anyway.

[Jordan94530i]

You got a 70 Chevelle :eek:

Awesome :buttrock:

Dude, put a big block with AFR heads and a 750 Demon carb!
It is my families actually..

Nah, Tempting to go old school, but I am going pro-touring.. Want to track the car, have baer brakes hotchkis global west suspension, just haven't worked on it much in 3-4 years... So my brother and I want to put something small block all aluminum or close to it, keep the car as light as we can..

Eventually my family needs to buckle down and finish it, but too much other things going on.

If you have the time and the know how, chevy small block is the way to go. Its not by mistake they are in so many classic cars... :cool

[Jordan94530i]

Wow...There is no comparison in my book. The reason I left GM after 18 years was: A.) Horrible dealer service and warranty BS (18 years of service at at least 10 different dealers from San Fran to San Diego) B.) Engineering quality.

I've owned 6 new GM cars in those 18 years...none of which come close to BMW standards.

All my .02 cents of course. ;)
We have never had a problem with our dealer here, other than price of course. But we have the ability to do alot of our own maintenance and repairs in our shop. Tools you use on tractors work on cars too :stickoutt

I am not saying GM has the best vehicles out there, but of the 15 or so vehicles in my immediate family, one grandmother has a lexus, the other have a caddy, sister has a civic, and everything else is Chevy/GMC truck other than my brothers SS, my Z28, and my Bimmer.

I didn't buy the bimmer for no reason, I have always loved bmws. I was specifically stating that an LS1 in an e34 would be a sweet ride. Never said GM was up to snuff with BMW altogether. Although GM is improving.

[MMMM_ERT]

I didn't buy the bimmer for no reason, I have always loved bmws. I was specifically stating that an LS1 in an e34 would be a sweet ride. Never said GM was up to snuff with BMW altogether. Although GM is improving.

Agree, it would be a neat "sleeper"... just not worth the headache IMO.

Yes, GM quality is improving yet service has a long way to go. I'm done with them after being denied warranty repair and kicked one too many times. :nono

Not to mention, their performance lineup sucks, other than the Vette and CTS-V. ...and the CTS-V is ugly.

[MMMM_ERT]

BTW....I still love Chevys....just the old ones. ;) My 68 RS-SS 350 that I've had for 13 years. :redspot

[Lscman]

You are terribly misinformed. As the first person in NM to be certified to service them, I know a thing or two about gen 1's

The piston slap is due to a centrally located pin which doesnt bias towards major or minor thrust surfaces.

Oil consumption? No. Oil leakage, yes

That motor is world class, and most of its problems were assembler problems.

I concur! The offset pin trick has been done for years. It mutes slap a bit while increasing friction, increasing engine wear, decreasing RWHP and decreasing efficiency. Yea....give me slap...give me brake squeal...give me rough ride... & give me performance! The Corvette LS1 was designed without typical intervention by NVH experts and other retentive folks who are anxious to compromise sports car attributes. I applaud GM for keeping consumer surveys and cry babies in proper perspective.

As I mentioned, the S62 M5 motor drinks oil & this is a major concern to owners. It has been glaringly obvious that BMW minimized ring tension in hopes of seeing fractional HP gains. Oil viscosity tweaks and ring design tweaks have not corrected the issue in the eyes of owners. Ford, GM, BMW and everyone else has been resorting to thinner rings with lighter tension. This move decreases wear and friction while risking some add'l oil use. It has been a balancing act since the 1980's, when they began this move toward lower friction. The key is to get over it and dump a qt in when needed.

[323I Junkie]

Liek when they decreased bearing journals in the eta then put a pump motor cam and super soft springs to get every drop of "e" they could

sacrifices are made


LSC, you may know a thing or two about engines :D

:handshake:

[Lscman]

likewise. :)

Everything domestic sux......everything German is superior.

:argue

[323I Junkie]

No No No!

LSC, American car too slow! Japanese Car much faster! Everything american do, japanese do better! Like Tecno Music and Night club!

:ninja

Evo supreme lord of universe!

[unesential]

It is my families actually..

Nah, Tempting to go old school, but I am going pro-touring.. Want to track the car, have baer brakes hotchkis global west suspension, just haven't worked on it much in 3-4 years... So my brother and I want to put something small block all aluminum or close to it, keep the car as light as we can..

Eventually my family needs to buckle down and finish it, but too much other things going on.

If you have the time and the know how, chevy small block is the way to go. Its not by mistake they are in so many classic cars... :cool
There is no replacement for displacement. Those cars were ment for a big block.

[unesential]

Agree, it would be a neat "sleeper"... just not worth the headache IMO.

Yes, GM quality is improving yet service has a long way to go. I'm done with them after being denied warranty repair and kicked one too many times. :nono

Not to mention, their performance lineup sucks, other than the Vette and CTS-V. ...and the CTS-V is ugly.
You would not be using the dealer service for an E34 LS1 car. It would probably be less headache once set up than an e39 M5.

[Derek 350i]

If you want to ask questions specific to the swap, ls1tech.com has good info in the conversions and hybrids section. This thread, not so much...

[mpolans]

If you want to ask questions specific to the swap, ls1tech.com has good info in the conversions and hybrids section. This thread, not so much...

Thanks! Hadn't checked over there yet. I figured this place might be better for getting info on dimensions and any special clearance issues.

[LavaBurns]

*ponders*

[TRAyres]

Any updates here? I've got a 1997 540iA, and not only do I not want an automatic any longer, I want more power.

I've seen the VF superchargers, yatta yatta, don't care, want an LS1 or LS2. I'm probably going to wait a year or two to do this, simply because I don't see the point in tearing the engine out of my daily driver while it still runs beautifully and everything works well. But as soon as it starts having problems (that might be more like 2 to three years, these Bimmers are tough, but it'll happen eventually - murphy's law, right?) I'm not going to screw around with overpriced European engines. I'll take the lighter/more horse/more torque/more fuel economy superior design, thanks.

Any news? Especially smogging this sort of thing - we'd have to have headers up to the pre-cats that aren't tampered with, but I think they'd fit in the engine bay - that 4.4 liter BMW engine is MASSIVE anyhow. Hum, so much to ponder!

[BKphoto]

i would never tarnish a proper german automobile with a piece of shit chevy motor....

[323I Junkie]

i would never tarnish a proper german automobile with a piece of shit chevy motor....

:rofl:

only becuase it makes more power, is more durable, less expensive, and gets better fuel economy and is easier to tune and lighter, other than that, the pos chevy motor has no advantage whatsoever. :rofl:

[Spartan540]

:rofl:

only becuase it makes more power, is more durable, less expensive, and gets better fuel economy and is easier to tune and lighter, other than that, the pos chevy motor has no advantage whatsoever. :rofl:

(Slaps Head) What was I thinking??? I'm off to trade my 540/6 for a Chevy Aveo because it makes more power (Wow 1.6L), is more durable, less expensive, and gets better fuel economy and is easier to tune and lighter. After reading this thread anything is better than a stinking underpowered BMW.

[323I Junkie]

NO, that cat was tlaking LS versus BMW V8

BMW V8 is awesome, but its not very tunable andis extraordinarily complex and heavy and everything else..its a fine stock motor, great to supercharge, but doesnt lend itself well to engine swaps

[TRAyres]

Wow comparing the Chevy Aveo motor to the LS1/LS2/LS6/LS7 GenIV smallblocks... are you retarded?

What, they didn't teach you math at school? You said yourself the aveo motor is 1.6 liters. Maybe because it has a 6 in it you think its the same as 6 liters.

So the GenIV small blocks are smaller, lighter, put out more power, get better fuel mileage, are less expensive, and easier to tune. Wait. I think I found a word for that. Its 'better'.

Thats why I want to look to put one in my 540iA - again, original question, anyone with a kit out? Anyone thinking of a kit? Somebody, help?

[BKphoto]

Wow comparing the Chevy Aveo motor to the LS1/LS2/LS6/LS7 GenIV smallblocks... are you retarded?

What, they didn't teach you math at school? You said yourself the aveo motor is 1.6 liters. Maybe because it has a 6 in it you think its the same as 6 liters.

So the GenIV small blocks are smaller, lighter, put out more power, get better fuel mileage, are less expensive, and easier to tune. Wait. I think I found a word for that. Its 'better'.

Thats why I want to look to put one in my 540iA - again, original question, anyone with a kit out? Anyone thinking of a kit? Somebody, help?

ugh....buy a chevy....personally I'd rather walk...

[323I Junkie]

Get on the Nike Express then :D

[uberhammer]

OK if you want a 400 hp na BMW 4.4l motor heres what you need to do, get 4.6l bmw crank, bore block .2 mm, get new pistons =4.7l motor.
500 hp na Bmw motor same as above with head work, rods, and cams= $15,000
It has been done and a GM crate motor plus labor to do the swap will be much more expensive

[323I Junkie]

UNless you are putting it in a six cylinder car


or doing it yourself

[e39dream]

all arguments aside this is going to be costly as all hell, especially if you do an e39. buy a 540i 6 speed e39, thow on a blower and be done with it, save the money you would have wasted for next project.

You can put any motor you want in your BMW- but be prepped for disaster.

[e39dream]

hey bkphoto- might want to check the origin of your trasmission:)

[Lscman]

hey bkphoto- might want to check the origin of your trasmission:)

I gotta say you view automobiles through a slender telescope pointed straight toward Germany. Remove your blinders or go to a road race and you'll discover that other marques offer some real advantages. Corvette kicks Porsche & Ferrari butt quite often at 1/2 the price and BMW is not in the running. The domestic Chevy V8 is overpowering the euro offerings with brute torque, response and efficiency.

The costly '97-'03 BMW M62 V8 motor offers absolutely nothing over 32V V8 motors offered by Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Cadillac or Oldsmobile during that time period. The E39 V8 often suffers from widepread coolant system blowout, valve cover leaks, carbon buildup and/or serious crankcase breather congestion problems. If you want to compare oil consumption and premature wear, review the recent E34 Nikasil V8 nightmare. The USA mfrs have not had such widespread cylinder wear issues since the Chevy Vega, about 35 years ago.

Corvettes for 8 of the last 9 years came with a Borg Warner T56 6 spd like you find in ponycars & Vipers. It is USA designed, Mexican mfd (Tremec) & 100% serviceable, as parts are sold for rebuild at VERY reasonable cost. You can get one rebuilt for about $1200, ready to plug-and-play. A brand new T56 tranny costs between $2200 & $3K, not the blistering $5500 - $7K BMW sole source price for a reman. The T56 also shifts and holds up better than the stock BMW Getrag under race duty. Actually the T45, T5 and T56 BW USA designs easily last 250K mi with typical use and no fluid changes. The 6spd Getrags are lucky to reach 100K mi without jambing in gear when cold or grinding 3rd gear synchro like coffee & owners fight over used boxes because rebuilds are rare
& costly. I get tired of hearing BS about German cars being better in every way. The euro highlights include better interior quality & not much else, aside from purchase price and cost of ownership. Once the E39 is beyond CPO, it is very difficult & costly to maintain them. I am convinced that BMW wants every car over 8 years old to be crushed and recycled.

Domestic cars that come with a 6 spd German Getrag tranny (like the Pontiac Vibe, C6 or Ford Focus SVT) are (were) no bonus.

[Spartan540]

Wow comparing the Chevy Aveo motor to the LS1/LS2/LS6/LS7 GenIV smallblocks... are you retarded?

What, they didn't teach you math at school? You said yourself the aveo motor is 1.6 liters. Maybe because it has a 6 in it you think its the same as 6 liters.

So the GenIV small blocks are smaller, lighter, put out more power, get better fuel mileage, are less expensive, and easier to tune. Wait. I think I found a word for that. Its 'better'.

Thats why I want to look to put one in my 540iA - again, original question, anyone with a kit out? Anyone thinking of a kit? Somebody, help?

Some folks in this forum sure do get their panties in a twist when someone tries to inject a little humor into the thread. I think I do have a small understanding about the difference between 4.4 over 1.6 etc. My apologies for being light hearted about such a serious subject.

[Ride]

i would never tarnish a proper german automobile with a piece of shit chevy motor....

It's only a BMW. :dunno

[BKphoto]

hey bkphoto- might want to check the origin of your trasmission:)


we were talking about putting a crap motor in a great car, i already know about the shitty transmission that is already in it...

i love it when people get all fired up, then they say the magic word..."corvette" they finally make 1 that is good and everyone loves them, it only took what 50 some odd years...? the new cars are all right, not a big fan of the styling, always hated the interior, but all the others before were piles of junk...i owned 2 of them...an 84 and a 92...

my last 3 cars have been bimmers, and will never look back...

[xatlas0]

Ugh, here we go again. The GM and BMW haters spitting venom and neither is listening.

The Euro cars are their own thing because they have distinct consumer limitations that we don't. Case in point, they often have dijsplacement-limited insurance policies and tax systems. Thusly, it is in BMW's interest to make powerful (for its size) small engines, and making something perform better without increasing the displacement will make it much more expensive.

In comparison, the US cars aren't really limited, hence the LS1 is a huge 7L of displacement and, big shocker, it is more powerful. Never mind a basic understanding of engines would tell you that.

The LS1 is nice for what it is, a huge motor with lots of aftermarket. The M6x is a nice motor because it has a high specific output without requiring you to rev the crud out of it. (S2000, anyone?) If BMW made a huge V8 in the E39, it probably would have been a barn-burner, but it also would have been heinously expensive because they would have applied their lessons learned in smaller motors and their output of such cars would have been very low

300hp out of a low-spinning 244in³ engine is pretty dang good. LS1=427.6 in³ for 500hp, which is slightly less good, from a specific engine output standpoint. Note that I am comparing the M60B40 to the LS1 in the C6 Z06, so the standard sedan to the top end soprts car. Moreover, if we are to compare the specific output of a similarly-intentioned BMW motor, like the one in the new M5, (305in³) the specific output of that motor is 40% better than the LS1. The cost of this improved efficiency is clear, since the new M5 motor is 25k for a long block.

To the kid bringing this thread back again, nobody makes a kit, nobody is making a kit. Nobody is going to make a setup for a car that is more than 10 years old. If someone does it, they will only do it for themselves. If you want it so bad, just do it, but be aware of the challanges, mostly electronic.

[LJSE34]

Ugh, here we go again. The GM and BMW haters spitting venom and neither is listening.

The Euro cars are their own thing because they have distinct consumer limitations that we don't. Case in point, they often have dijsplacement-limited insurance policies and tax systems. Thusly, it is in BMW's interest to make powerful (for its size) small engines, and making something perform better without increasing the displacement will make it much more expensive.

In comparison, the US cars aren't really limited, hence the LS1 is a huge 7L of displacement and, big shocker, it is more powerful. Never mind a basic understanding of engines would tell you that.

The LS1 is nice for what it is, a huge motor with lots of aftermarket. The M6x is a nice motor because it has a high specific output without requiring you to rev the crud out of it. (S2000, anyone?) If BMW made a huge V8 in the E39, it probably would have been a barn-burner, but it also would have been heinously expensive because they would have applied their lessons learned in smaller motors and their output of such cars would have been very low

300hp out of a low-spinning 244in³ engine is pretty dang good. LS1=427.6 in³ for 500hp, which is slightly less good, from a specific engine output standpoint. Note that I am comparing the M60B40 to the LS1 in the C6 Z06, so the standard sedan to the top end soprts car. Moreover, if we are to compare the specific output of a similarly-intentioned BMW motor, like the one in the new M5, (305in³) the specific output of that motor is 40% better than the LS1. The cost of this improved efficiency is clear, since the new M5 motor is 25k for a long block.

To the kid bringing this thread back again, nobody makes a kit, nobody is making a kit. Nobody is going to make a setup for a car that is more than 10 years old. If someone does it, they will only do it for themselves. If you want it so bad, just do it, but be aware of the challanges, mostly electronic.


Well said

[323I Junkie]

I think some additional points to this discussion may be this
Horspepower and torque ar enot the same thing. 500 horses out of 5 liters is awesoem, but 500 horses out of 7 liters will twist it into next week. PLust there are the single digit issues of the M5's fuel economy and we dont really have such issues with the vetter

BMW V8 cars get rediculously poor fuel economy in the M series..which I never understand

[91M5]

Simple, they are smaller displacement with less torque, use revs to produce high horsepower and are in cars that weigh 600lbs more than a Corvette. A 7.0 liter BMW engine in a 3200lb car would likely get pretty good mpg too by adding the very tall 6th gear like they do in the Vette. If you throw a Vette around a track using redline that gas mileage isn't much better than a BMW V8. It takes a certain amount of fuel and air to make hp and that is just physics.

I think BMW's numbers for the new 3.0 in the 325i are pretty impressive in a 3500lb car.

[NickAD]

Ugh, here we go again. The GM and BMW haters spitting venom and neither is listening.

The Euro cars are their own thing because they have distinct consumer limitations that we don't. Case in point, they often have dijsplacement-limited insurance policies and tax systems. Thusly, it is in BMW's interest to make powerful (for its size) small engines, and making something perform better without increasing the displacement will make it much more expensive.

In comparison, the US cars aren't really limited, hence the LS1 is a huge 7L of displacement and, big shocker, it is more powerful. Never mind a basic understanding of engines would tell you that.

The LS1 is nice for what it is, a huge motor with lots of aftermarket. The M6x is a nice motor because it has a high specific output without requiring you to rev the crud out of it. (S2000, anyone?) If BMW made a huge V8 in the E39, it probably would have been a barn-burner, but it also would have been heinously expensive because they would have applied their lessons learned in smaller motors and their output of such cars would have been very low

300hp out of a low-spinning 244in³ engine is pretty dang good. LS1=427.6 in³ for 500hp, which is slightly less good, from a specific engine output standpoint. Note that I am comparing the M60B40 to the LS1 in the C6 Z06, so the standard sedan to the top end soprts car. Moreover, if we are to compare the specific output of a similarly-intentioned BMW motor, like the one in the new M5, (305in³) the specific output of that motor is 40% better than the LS1. The cost of this improved efficiency is clear, since the new M5 motor is 25k for a long block.

To the kid bringing this thread back again, nobody makes a kit, nobody is making a kit. Nobody is going to make a setup for a car that is more than 10 years old. If someone does it, they will only do it for themselves. If you want it so bad, just do it, but be aware of the challanges, mostly electronic.

To clear some things up...the LS1 is a 5.7. The LS1 (and LS6 which was in the C5 vette/early CTS-V's) went away with the coming of the LS2 (actually, I think the CTS-V held on to the LS6 for another year before it got the LS2...correct me if I'm wrong). The engine you're thinking of is the LS7 427 which is the latest LS series engine produced for the Z06. Also, the M60 never had 300hp. Hell, the M62 didn't even have 300hp. Your talk of efficiency is kind of limited as well. Sure, the M5 engine makes similar power to that of the LS7 while being a couple liters smaller. The engine itself is much larger and complex though. The LS7 is packaged pretty well, and it is suprisingly very efficient when it comes to gas as well. I'd also be willing to put money on the idea that it produces power throughout the entire rpm range a lot better than the M5's V10. So, really, to say it is more efficient in that it produces the same power out of smaller displacementis kind of pointless when taking everything else into consideration. But kind of going off of what you said, obviously Europeans and other places with displacement regulations would think otherwise.:stickoutt

[91M5]

Actually, once you compare to car of similar weight the economy isn't that much better.

http://www.pontiac.com/gto/index.jsp

[xatlas0]

To clear some things up...the LS1 is a 5.7. The LS1 (and LS6 which was in the C5 vette/early CTS-V's) went away with the coming of the LS2 (actually, I think the CTS-V held on to the LS6 for another year before it got the LS2...correct me if I'm wrong). The engine you're thinking of is the LS7 427 which is the latest LS series engine produced for the Z06. Also, the M60 never had 300hp. Hell, the M62 didn't even have 300hp. Your talk of efficiency is kind of limited as well. Sure, the M5 engine makes similar power to that of the LS7 while being a couple liters smaller. The engine itself is much larger and complex though. The LS7 is packaged pretty well, and it is suprisingly very efficient when it comes to gas as well. I'd also be willing to put money on the idea that it produces power throughout the entire rpm range a lot better than the M5's V10. So, really, to say it is more efficient in that it produces the same power out of smaller displacementis kind of pointless when taking everything else into consideration. But kind of going off of what you said, obviously Europeans and other places with displacement regulations would think otherwise.:stickoutt

Ok, yes, "efficiency" was a bad choice. I meant it more as "efficient use of a displacement", not overall efficiency. I should have said "peak outputs". However, my figure on that particular LSx still stands, as that motor makes 500hp stock, at that displacement. Plus, based on what you are saying, it is their best offering currently, which makes the M5 comparison even more applicable. Note that I also said that the M5 motor was undoubtedly more complex, and probably far more of a pain to work on. I'd have to go with that being irrefuteable.

My main point is that both motors are designed for different criteria. The M5 motor is designed in F-1 style. The LSx is designed for american muscle-car-esque power. Everybody bashes on the M6x motors because they are not muscle-car-esque, even though that is not what they were designed to, and others bash on the LSx motors because they are not F-1 style. The bickering is pointless. It's like comparing track speed to drag speed.

The M60 was stated at 290 or so hp stock. Given what other E34 540s are laying down, that is well within the realm of actually seen, once converted back to flywheel. The flywheel number is actually meaningful in this instance, since all the hp measures discussed are at the flywheel.

[NickAD]

Ok, yes, "efficiency" was a bad choice. I meant it more as "efficient use of a displacement", not overall efficiency. I should have said "peak outputs". However, my figure on that particular LSx still stands, as that motor makes 500hp stock, at that displacement. Plus, based on what you are saying, it is their best offering currently, which makes the M5 comparison even more applicable. Note that I also said that the M5 motor was undoubtedly more complex, and probably far more of a pain to work on. I'd have to go with that being irrefuteable.

My main point is that both motors are designed for different criteria. The M5 motor is designed in F-1 style. The LSx is designed for american muscle-car-esque power. Everybody bashes on the M6x motors because they are not muscle-car-esque, even though that is not what they were designed to, and others bash on the LSx motors because they are not F-1 style. The bickering is pointless. It's like comparing track speed to drag speed.

The M60 was stated at 290 or so hp stock. Given what other E34 540s are laying down, that is well within the realm of actually seen, once converted back to flywheel. The flywheel number is actually meaningful in this instance, since all the hp measures discussed are at the flywheel.

Oh yea, as far as the V10/LS7 comparison, I'm not arguing that at all. I have no problem comparing the two, and agreeing that they are, in fact, two totally different engines. As far as the M60 numbers, I was going by the info I have seen...The M60B40 put out about 282hp and 295ft-lb. The M62B44 put out 282hp and 310ft-lb, and the M62TUB44 put out 282hp and 325ft-lb. Somewhere in 2002/2003 the 540 got a jump in hp to 290. I still don't know what that came from... :dunno

[TRAyres]

Some folks in this forum sure do get their panties in a twist when someone tries to inject a little humor into the thread. I think I do have a small understanding about the difference between 4.4 over 1.6 etc. My apologies for being light hearted about such a serious subject.

Its hard to tell humor over text -

I forgot, this isn't a Honda board, people wouldn't actually seriously compare a 1.6 liter moter to something with closer to 6 liters. :D

It IS just a BMW - a rather ubiquitous BMW. I wouldn't do it to a classic (read:old, outdated, antique, rusted, whatever) porsche, ferrari, whatever.

[323I Junkie]

Its hard to tell humor over text -

I forgot, this isn't a Honda board, people wouldn't actually seriously compare a 1.6 liter moter to something with closer to 6 liters. :D


Vtech Yo!......
fo shizzle

[BKphoto]

love my country, hate our cars... there is nothing from the "big three" that i would even consider buying, sad, but true...

[prash]

No doubt BMW built great engines but BMW's history w/ V8 engines is joke next to Chevy. The E39 M5 V8 and the 4.8/4.6/4.4/4.0 V8's in various models are fantastic. The sounds they produce is pure music and are very powerful for their engine class. 540's were the fastest cars in their class during the mid-late 90's. Even the Northstar which was more powerful wasn't as good and the M60.

However, BMW's (comparitive) lack of experience w/ V8's has shown. The alusil/nikasil issue is well known amongst car guys; likewise w/ the cooling system failures in 540's. BMW has been putting V8's into road cars for what? 12-13 years now. That is not a long time. Its still too early to judge BMW V8 long-term reliabilty since the cars havn't been around long enough to have a large enough pool to reach any conclusions. There are a few w/ 150K miles on them now and they seem to run strong.

GM has been putting V8's into cars for over 50 years. They know what they're doing. They're not big on developing complicated 32 valve DOHC engines because they can build a OHV V8 to do everything that a DOHC 32 valve can do and make it reliable, economical, while taking up less space etc. Why would they switch designs.

To wit: the 4.3 V8 in the F430 gets worse mpg than the 7.0 LS in the Z06 while being 2/3 in size. GM is second-to-none when it comes to R & D regarding V8's.

[91M5]

Comparing the mpg of those two engines is not an apples to apples comparison. The F430 is so different and performs in a totally different place. I don't think anyone's technology is second to none, just different. As for mpg comparison, I think mileage at a track would be the best comparison. I am guessing about the same, then how efficient does the 7.0 seem?

[BKphoto]

gas mileage...? how about making an innovative car, GM is a reactionary company...but they can make a good V8...

[Lscman]

.............my last 3 cars have been bimmers, and will never look back...love my country, hate our cars... there is nothing from the "big three" that i would even consider buying, sad, but true...

I realize that & agree it is sad. Consumers who switch to German are oft oblivious to ongoing improvements in USA products. Like so many USA citizens who "refuse to look back", you compare three newer foreign cars to memories of older domestic cars. The quality and reliability bar is constantly raising for most marques, so first-hand, cross-mfr comparisons between different vintage products are not fair. Too many variables, including German cars mfd by Americans in American factories. The exception is BMW...read on->

You sound like my old, stingy uncle. He is convinced his $32K 2005 Subaru is nicer than his "once new" $3200 1978 Fairmont that he owned & loved for 28 years. At every family gathering, this all-knowing genius touts with great confidence that American cars suk compared to asian cars. In his little world, YES, no kidding! Too damn bad he didn't own a $4000 1978 Subaru and $30K AWD 2005 Ford Freestyle, as he'd have an entirely different perspective! Until recently, Subaru's rusted out in 3-5 years and their motors did not last either....whoopdeedoo. The nice thing is two guys can lift the motor out of a Subaru by hand without removing the hood (did that)....but why even rebuild the motor when the strut towers rust out and the struts come through the hood when you hit a pothole? Subaru uses BMW's stupid short-lived aluminum cylinders too.

USA domestic cars have progressively improved quality in the last 30 years while BMW quality has progressively dipped. BMW's use of plastic now rivals GM, as E30, E34 & E36 owners continually remind us. The end of percieved BMW quality is near, as it's all been down hill. The thing keeping them afloat now is bangled designs for kids & yuppie X SUV's.

[BKphoto]

well first off, i don't like Subaru's either so i don't think your uncle and i are that close....riddle me this batman, give me an example of a NEW domestic that is better than our e39's...? my inlaw's just got a Mercury Montego (sp?), drove it yesterday, and my 97 e39 w/99,000 miles is a better car...

[323I Junkie]

well first off, i don't like Subaru's either so i don't think your uncle and i are that close....riddle me this batman, give me an example of a NEW domestic that is better than our e39's...? my inlaw's just got a Mercury Montego (sp?), drove it yesterday, and my 97 e39 w/99,000 miles is a better car...

any ford or Gm product of comparable size is better in three ways..

More backseat room
Better Fuel economy
Lower purchasing and operating costs

the downside is crash safety, styling, handling and power,

but you cant use "better" in such general sense

[Alan]

American cars are getting much better. Heck, I'm very close to getting a Cadillac CTV in a year when I need a daily driver to go to work. (I'm keeping the 5 though!) While it may not be quite as fun to drive as a 3 series, its a lot cheaper to lease, is of very high quality and, hell, it feels good to buy American.

[BKphoto]

any ford or Gm product of comparable size is better in three ways..

More backseat room
Better Fuel economy
Lower purchasing and operating costs

the downside is crash safety, styling, handling and power,

but you cant use "better" in such general sense

well, those are 3 things that no one who buys a BMW or Merc or some other comparable car cares too much about...

[BKphoto]

American cars are getting much better. Heck, I'm very close to getting a Cadillac CTV in a year when I need a daily driver to go to work. (I'm keeping the 5 though!) While it may not be quite as fun to drive as a 3 series, its a lot cheaper to lease, is of very high quality and, hell, it feels good to buy American.

they have been "getting better" now since the 80's and they aren't there yet...when will this finally happen...?

[atl530i]

Eh, American cars may be getting better. I think that as long as you take care of your car it will not fail you. Any car can be problematic... I had a 1990 Grand Prix that ran like a champ. I gave that car to my mother and she still has it.

Anyway, American motors need to stay in American cars and German motors need to stay in German cars. BMW went thru a lot designing and engineering those for thier cars. There is no need to ruin it... Just my opinion.

[Spartan540]

I'm an owner of a 2000 Lincoln LS which is comparable to the 530i in spec and performance which I use as my DD and I've owned since new. It now has 102k miles. I can attest to the fact that American Gremlins are still hard at work failing components for no apparent reason. When you go to the Lincoln equivalent of Bimmerforums http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/ you can read about problems that occur across the full spectrum. With Bimmers, issues that occur seem to happen to everyone and they are the same problems, e.g. E39 Pixel problems. The biggest issue I've found is that everyone has a different problem with the Lincoln. This says everything about the quality. Don't get me wrong, I love driving this car. But when it goes wrong, it really goes wrong. The car has stranded me at the side of the road 3 times and from what I understand, I've been lucky. For a $47k car, it's inexcusable. There's no doubt US car builders are getting better, question is, will they ever catch the massive lead that BMW has.

[323I Junkie]

well, those are 3 things that no one who buys a BMW or Merc or some other comparable car cares too much about...


:rofl:

under what autority do you say "noone"?
seriously, I lvoe bimmers just as much as the next person and so do many of the family people I see at the dealerships.

There has always been a rear seat room complaint until the last series of three's and fives.
Price is an issue to nearly everyone, not just domestic buyers,
and fuel at 3 bucks a gallon or more is a nother 500 a month concern if you drive lot

:biglaughb: "noone" :biglaughb:

[BKphoto]

as far as "back seats", well, buy a 7 series (although i'm over 6 feet tall and have no problem sitting in the back of an e39)... if you think these cars are too expensive, get a domestic...and if you are worried about gas, buy a hybrid...

[323I Junkie]

No, your not gettgin what Im saying

I realized, and as will every other enthusiast, that some people just dont care
they shop for function, price, and value :dunno:

I can sit in the back of a e39 too if my wife is my driver..but If im driving the seat touches the backseat :help:

same thing in my e34 and all three series..

save the new ones

those are some issues that it wouldnt have hurt BMW to address a few years ago, like thirty

and I have a seven series, its old, but its still a seven :buttrock:
the old girl still suprises people with things like heated pwoer seats and headrests, abs, airbag...and room

[Lscman]

well first off, i don't like Subaru's either so i don't think your uncle and i are that close....riddle me this batman, give me an example of a NEW domestic that is better than our e39's...? my inlaw's just got a Mercury Montego (sp?), drove it yesterday, and my 97 e39 w/99,000 miles is a better car...

Better at what...blowing radiators, clogging engine breathers, leaking valve covers, clogged cats, blown struts, worn out rear suspenion joints, doorhandles busting off or vibrating front thrust arms etc?

The Montego is essentially a rebadged Ford 500 that sells NEW for $20-24K, out-the-door. The rumor that Ford adds some lockwashers to Mercury cars is false (lol).

Let's try a fair comparison......in the $50K category:

I strongly feel that Cadillac CTS-V beats "our" beloved E39 540i in many/most categories. The CTS-V will eat the 540i/6 for lunch in any performance comparison, as it offers M-ish performance that falls midway between M3 and M5. The Cadillac has far superior multi-piston alloy brakes and full SLA track-capable sports car front suspension. BMW chose to use cast iron boat anchor single piston caliper units made by ATE (same outfit that designed & mfd Ford Fairmont front brakes) & the obsolete 5er uses understeering and tire-chewing McPherson setup like you find on a Ford Taurus or Fairmont wagon. The Cadillac competes strongly in road racing against the latest Porsche Carrera, M3 & Corvette Z06, while 540i and M5 are absent. The CTS-V of same model year was cheaper out-the-door than E39 540i. The resale of CTS-V is, in fact, higher than 540i....despite BMW owners predicting otherwise...find one for under $30K and call me, as early E39 540i resale value has collapsed into the $10K-$13K range. The CTS-V is more reliable & far cheaper to maintain than 540i. Robust service literature is sold for Cadillac that puts Bentley and ETK/TIS to shame. Service parts are sold for CTS-V that are not sold for BMW, including transmission, differential and engine internals. The CTS-V is a true hot rod sedan dream and it will maintain resale value as a classic. Cadillac electronics are configured in a wise, flexible and modular fashion that facilitates serviceability, testing swappability & troubleshooting. The 540i will largely die and become unsupportable, as various computer modules are custom programmed & married to each car. As they age, servicing these nightmare 540i cars through a stealership (with their bastardized, undocumented subsystems) will not be affordable. The strategic games that BMW played, locking out aftermarket service centers from repair opportunities will backfire, as they totally screwed backyard mechanics. Service bills will soon exceed the book value of the car. This is why some folks are already parting out E39 M5's with blown motors, after they get $35K estimates to repair. If it's a Cadillac, you call Jasper or somebody and buy a monster GM stroker for $12K, throw it in & hang on tight. I have 300K miles on my 1988 Lincoln. Call me in another 201K miles and let me know how your E39 is running. I pray my 540i sees half those miles without mortgaging the farm. The CTS-V highway mileage pushes 30+, due to stump-pulling torque combined with high overdrive cruise ratio. It's fuel economy rivals any gutless 6 cyl 5 series. Get with the program.

The E39 dash and seats are better quality and angel eyes are so cool...yippie, I'll give you that.:D

[323I Junkie]

Oh, I think they will remain supported, the e34 has
But you hav a point. BMW's just arent the ultimate force in the universe, nothing is

[Lscman]

Oh, I think they will remain supported, the e34 has
But you hav a point. BMW's just arent the ultimate force in the universe, nothing is

FYI, BMW changed their parts availability strategy after E34 era & they openly admit it. BMW sold transmission and differential internal service parts for E34. They simply do not sell these parts for E39 & they have no plans to do so. They have elected to sell reman assemblies only, so a $7 bearing now costs $5K and up. Why stock parts and make pennies profit when you can sell complete assemblies for more money??

The definition of "supported" is blurred. BMW's new, costlier "buy reman or new complete assembly" programs they offer for various drivetrain and powertrain systems are not adequate for servicing cars with a book value under $10K. You should be able to separately purchase all internals for the engine, transmission and differential, but this is not the case any longer. Parts availability was cut way back after the E34/E36 era.

Folks were able to swap spare or salvage modules in E34 to facilitate troubleshooting and repair. The E39 and forward technology involves modules that are coded for a particular car. This totally thwarts troubleshooting unless you have thousands invested in costly, proprietary testing tools. Big independent shops struggle to justify the cost...the backyard mechanic is powerless. The word "unserviceable" comes to mind and this largely defines useful lifecycle of a car (in this case, I predict..short).

[323I Junkie]

Thats awful. Im sad to know that :(

But perhpas it will instigate an aftermarket

[91M5]

My friend's CTSV has some issue with the rear diff as we speak. I think it may be a mount or something.

The 550i compares favorably with the CTSV I think. As for brakes, those single piston ATE's are more than adequate for most people and are fine with a track pad (in fact, many BMW club racers retain stock ATE's with ducting given the cheap price of rotors). While the 4-pots look great you are usually talking well above $200 a rotor to replace them.

As for the strut suspension, BMW does it better than anybody and that tire-shredding suspension does nothing but win accolades.

As for the Cadillac's in the SCCA GT series, they got away with murder in building those cars so the SCCA could get a factory team (engine farther back and lower than stock). They were allowed to do more than anybody else. They also got beat more than a few times by a plain ole' 911. The absence of BMW in that series is because it is not nearly large enough for a factory effort and some of the factory-supported teams got a bit frustrated with the rules (they try to penalize you when you win to even out the series).

This random sampling on Craigslist casts doubt on your resale argument:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/car/209426521.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/car?query=545i

[BKphoto]

american cars blow....

sorry...

[NickAD]

american cars blow....

sorry...
That's quite a narrow minded statement, don't you think?

[BKphoto]

from what i see i'm not the only one who thinks this...how is Ford and GM doing these days...?

[e39dream]

just got my car back from RB racing in nashville! OMG is this thing sick fast!!1

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/marxalbums/528iSS.jpg

[NickAD]

http://www.members.aol.com/hagancue/

[e39dream]

it- it's alive! that's killer- in a "I'm glad it wasn't my idea" way.

cadillacs have crap resale value- my buddies '98 deville is worth 3-5 grand tops- I'd be afraid to see what he paid. what's an average cond. 98 540i go for- 10-12k?

[e39dream]

all of the links on that page are bunk :(

[e39dream]

so the guy has 500 horses- does his cruise work- how about tach, mpg guages? the complicated dual zone a/c system? traction control? OBD readability? emissions? too many systems to concern yourself with- I'd be concerned what had to be done to make it all work- if it even does.

[323I Junkie]

Well, on this GM Ford thing...I love my e34, and even though my wife took it from me, I think about it all the time. Sometimes, once a week when it needs washing, she lets me drive it :biglaughb:

I also love the seven..though I dont know why :lol:

My chevy suburban is my buddy..it takes care of me, tows my stuff, hauls my bikes and all my kids and my friends kids


Smokes is awesome, but just not me :help:..I just dont get to drive him like He needs

the car I think about the most is my 99 TA
God, if only I hadnt sold...I am so looking right now at 2002 model black WS6...so much fun, so fun to drive, and the AC, cruise, pwoer seats, T-Tops..all fo that good stuff..you have no idea how much I miss that machine, none at all

there was nothign wrong with that car, nothing at all. It didnt hurt my back, got great mileage, handled very well, was fast stock and faster modified

now that Im settles, Im seriosuly thinking about picking one up, turbocharging it, selling smokes and one other and driving it...love is love, and those cars are great. Theres a few others on this forum who know whereof I speak

[LJSE34]

I strongly feel that Cadillac CTS-V beats "our" beloved E39 540i in many/most categories. The CTS-V will eat the 540i/6 for lunch in any...

The E39 dash and seats are better quality and angel eyes are so cool...yippie, I'll give you that.:D

I've read many of your posts over the past year or two now and I really think you'll be much happier getting rid of the 540i and getting that CTS-V.

[BKphoto]

what will it be like in 9 years is the question...

[e39dream]

I found a green 97 540i with no drivetrain for 3500 bucks in chicagoland if anyone's looking for a project- saw it and thought of this thread.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/car/211435167.html

[Toddzilla]

So the complete and total lack of tech in here is pretty cool. 6 pages of pissing and moaning....awesome.

So right now, I have my M5 up for sale, and nobody is buying it...at all.

The car itself is great, I love the look, the interior is great, the suspension is great, the brakes are great.

The motor.....the car moves ok, but it's pretty gutless down low.

The good news is that the motor and tranny in good running order are worth about $8k.

So my hetero lifemate, Craig, and I were talking about this idea originally for an E28, but lately we've been talking about doing it to a car that's not a pile of crap....this M5.

Here is the potential victim:
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9597/picture228sc2.jpg

So best case, I sell the motor and tranny out of this for ~$8k, buy an LS1 and t-56 for $4k, dump a few more thousand in it for custom exhaust, a cam, a tune, and misc BS...and be left with a monster and about $2k.


I'd need the following....

Engine/tranny/wiring
custom DS
Radiator and fan
Custom engine/tranny mounts
Might have to adapt Camaro clutch MC

The only gauge that would need attention would be the tach.

The speedo sensor is in the diff, so I wouldn't touch that.

All that said, this is only notional right now, and I wouldn't even begin to do this until January at the earliest, and until I found a buyer for my motor.

And, I could just change my mind all together.

[e39dream]

I would think an e34 would be a little simpler on the intergration of everything. I wouldn't do that to that car due to the rarity, but if you do get wild, post pictures.

[323I Junkie]

So the complete and total lack of tech in here is pretty cool. 6 pages of pissing and moaning....awesome.

And, I could just change my mind all together.

Look dude, I dont appreciate conversation friends have among themselves (longstanding friends at that) to be called "six pages of non tech pissing and moaning"

I would prefer if you are bent on dropping an LS1 in areal e34 m5, you go do the butchery somewhere else, f**** off, and dont make us read about it, kapish?


if you want to do something like that to an e34, why dont you take one of the many near pristiine 525 autos lazying aorund and do it

[wildwall]

american cars blow....

sorry...
I have a 2000 540i and a 2004 Pontiac GTO, not to mention a Suburban and an Explorer. All different and I love them all for different reasons.
So when you say American cars blow, I can't help but feel that you are hypnotized by the blue and white emblem- If I don't like you, do you blow?

[Toddzilla]

Look dude, I dont appreciate conversation friends have among themselves (longstanding friends at that) to be called "six pages of non tech pissing and moaning"

Oh, I didn't realize that I had invaded a private message session amongst some friends, I thought that this was a thread in a public forum. Weird.


I would prefer if you are bent on dropping an LS1 in areal e34 m5, you go do the butchery somewhere else, f**** off, and dont make us read about it, kapish?

Well King of Logic, you make a really solid point about how you don't want to read about someone posting about putting an LS1 into an E34, in a thread about putting an LS1 into an E34. No really, that was a totally solid point you just made there. I know when I'm beat, and dad-gummit, you did it!!

Secondly, "kapish"? Who are you supposed to be, Big Louie from New Jersey?


if you want to do something like that to an e34, why dont you take one of the many near pristiine 525 autos lazying aorund and do it

Because I have this car now, and my car is a better platform to start from.

[xatlas0]

Well King of Logic, you make a really solid point about how you don't want to read about someone posting about putting an LS1 into an E34, in a thread about putting an LS1 into an E34. No really, that was a totally solid point you just made there. I know when I'm beat, and dad-gummit, you did it!!

I think it has more to do with the fact that it is such a rare car to begin with. It would be like putting a japanese economy engine in a hemi 'cuda.



Because I have this car now, and my car is a better platform to start from.


Why do you think so? Considering how much you are going to have to change anyway to safely deal with the extra power and torque, you'll end up replacing all of the M stuff.

Also, I am curious, how technical did you want it to get? Were you expecting charts comparing the volumetric efficiencies all along the RPM band, head flow limits, thermal gradients, what?

[323I Junkie]

No, he probably wanted a step by step procedure

Look Toddzilla, I was finiashing up the last of my Conscious sedation yesterday, so I may have been a bit short, but nobody on a BMW enthusiast board wants to hear about one of our precious M cars being hacked


Heres a tip

the LS1 is a great idea, but not in a rare and rather valuable M car, especially not a red one. (very few red ones)

They used to biturbp the M5...and still do in sweden. If you want help, theres probably a lot of people on this board who would help you to be put in touch with the right people who could help get this done. You would have a1000 HP M5 when all is said and done, at the minimum, youd be pushin 600 whp..and you wouldnt have to modify anything

putting the LSx motor in is sort of our "last resort" on chasisis that are more or less Ford Tuarus of the BMW workd, wait, not the e36, but cars like the m20 e34

and , for future reference, dont ever go in a someone elses house and insult them

[323I Junkie]

I guess Ill bite and for anyone else ask you how much you want to just unload the white elephant you have

[Craig S]

and , for future reference, dont ever go in a someone elses house and insult them

How is this someone else's house? Do his 4 BMWs that he owns not qualify?

Let's ask this question- what if his S38 blew up? Woud you expect him to spend $7000 on a used motor, or $15,000 for a rebuild? If he wanted to put something else in the car at that point (that cost less, weighed less, made more power, was cheaper to mod and was more reliable) would you say the same things?

In a way he's helping keep another M5 on the road by selling his driveline to someone that needs it.

[323I Junkie]

If it blew up it would be different....

you know what I mean by "house" :shifty:


I would install a 3.5 liter stroked M3 motor...biturboed

[Craig S]

you know what I mean by "house" :shifty:


Actually, I don't. It sounds like you are saying he shouldn't be here for some reason, which I don't understand.

[Toddzilla]

I think it has more to do with the fact that it is such a rare car to begin with. It would be like putting a japanese economy engine in a hemi 'cuda.

Not really, because that implies that the M5s are actually worth a lot of money, which they aren't. I'm asking about $13k for my car, and it's hardly generated any interest. I think everyone likes E34 M5, but nobody really wants them....because of the cost of repair.

Hemi Cudas are worth over a million now, right?



Why do you think so? Considering how much you are going to have to change anyway to safely deal with the extra power and torque, you'll end up replacing all of the M stuff.

I'm replacing the engine and tranny, and if I ever blow up the diff, I'd replace that too. But I'm not going to be drag racing the car.



Also, I am curious, how technical did you want it to get? Were you expecting charts comparing the volumetric efficiencies all along the RPM band, head flow limits, thermal gradients, what?

Just so we're on the same page, you're not trying to scare me with knowledge, are you?

No, I wasn't. I was expecting more than "CHEVY IS SHIT!!" and "OH YEAH, YOU'RE SHIT!!"

If you recall, the person who started this thread asked


I've heard of a few being people swapping an LS1 into an E36 3-series. Does anyone know if it has been done with an E34 or E39 5-series? If so, anyone have any pics, links, etc.?

He didn't ask for a philosophical debate on it.

How about these issues.....

Custom driveshaft
Custom motor/tranny mounts
PS pump adaptation
AC compressor adaptation
Custom radiator
Custom fan and fan control
Clutch master cylinder adaptation
Starter wiring adaptation
Running power, ground, and acc to the LS1 harness/ECU
Tach signal conditioning
Fuel pump communication
Throttle cable interface
Custom exhaust

[e39dream]

I would be interested in buying the red e34 m5 as is- please email more info/pictures to: markb_698@hotmail.com

[323I Junkie]

Debates are our specialty

As far as the technicalites,

Custom driveshaftSteel:500, Carbon:$1200
Custom motor/tranny mountsProbably
PS pump adaptation Easier to change mounts than pump
AC compressor adaptation ONce agian, mounts
Custom radiator Probably not necessary, the LS cools more effciciently
Custom fan and fan control Flexalite does custom chrouds and fans
Clutch master cylinder adaptation You need the LS1's master long throw or Id personally sitch to a mustangs cable quadrant system. Forget the BMW
Starter wiring adaptation None necessary
Running power, ground, and acc to the LS1 harness/ECUThere is a divorced engine harness on the 91 and up e34's
Tach signal conditioning You're screwed there. You might try having a secondary reluctor adapted off the s38 and retaining the factory tach wiring..much easier to lie mechanically than electronically
Fuel pump communication Forget the S38 fuel pump go aftermakret LS1
Throttle cable interface Take the factory cable out, measure the length, and install a custom one in length. Speedo shops can build one from your endsd
Custom exhaust There are lkots of custom shops. The gentelamn I use would charge about 900 bucks
__________________


Heres a thought:

Have a front engine plate made...itll roll the cost of motor mounts and accessory mounts into one

[Toddzilla]

See, that's some good info, thanks a lot.

We're best friends now.

[323I Junkie]

Never a judge a man on IV Sedation :D

[xatlas0]

Not really, because that implies that the M5s are actually worth a lot of money, which they aren't. I'm asking about $13k for my car, and it's hardly generated any interest. I think everyone likes E34 M5, but nobody really wants them....because of the cost of repair.

Hence they are pretty uncommon vehicles, much like the Cuda was.


Hemi Cudas are worth over a million now, right?
Yes, 30 years later. At the time, it was something of a poster car, so when the kids who had the poster grew up, they are willing to spend the bucks for their childhood dream. Similarly, based on what I have seen, the M5 is another poster car, and has the potential to be worth a pretty good sum later on. Heck, a CSL goes for about 40k nowadays, and that has doubled in the last 5 years.



I'm replacing the engine and tranny, and if I ever blow up the diff, I'd replace that too. But I'm not going to be drag racing the car.

Right, so you will want better brakes, better suspension, you are already going to have to do a custom steering linkage... in the end, you are going to have to replace all the M-parts anyway, so why not start with something far less valvuable?



Just so we're on the same page, you're not trying to scare me with knowledge, are you?

No, I was asking a legit question. Considering the majority of drivers don't know what half those words mean, I was simply suggesting that given the general lack of tech info, expecting it isn't a good idea, as you will only set yourself up for dissapointment.



No, I wasn't. I was expecting more than "CHEVY IS SHIT!!" and "OH YEAH, YOU'RE SHIT!!"


Eh, it is a car forum, it is going to happen. Everybody's got opinions, and they all stink. You want to see this kind of thing all the time, check out some of the Evo, STi, or e46fanatics boards.



He didn't ask for a philosophical debate on it.

Mayhaps not, but questioning the choice is inherent when deciding how to do something, so it was going to be brought up, especially when feasability is up for discussion.


How about these issues.....

Custom driveshaft
Custom motor/tranny mounts
PS pump adaptation
AC compressor adaptation
Custom radiator
Custom fan and fan control
Clutch master cylinder adaptation
Starter wiring adaptation
Running power, ground, and acc to the LS1 harness/ECU
Tach signal conditioning
Fuel pump communication
Throttle cable interface
Custom exhaust

The majority of those issues are a problem whenever you put any engine in any car. The only thing that differentiates custom is that it isn't mass produced. As such, I wouldn't consider them to be problems, simply the nature of the task at hand. A problem would be if there was some kind of physical interference such that the thing didn't fit. Given the majority of those issues can be fixed with a good fabricator and a ruler, I'd be more concerned about the electrical side of things. It would be a mess. It may almost be worth it to simply run a standalone, like MegaSquirt or Tec3, that way the system is entirely under your control and you decide how to interface it with the rest of the vehicle, rather than jumping through the GM designer's hoops.

[BKphoto]

if that car was black I'd buy it....go to a 5 series board, talk about hacking up the last of the handmade M5's and be surprised when you get a negative reaction...

jackass...

[Goat128]

Just so we're on the same page, you're not trying to scare me with knowledge, are you?



He wasn't trying to scare you. Please hang around a bit and let people get to know you before getting confrontational with people that have been on here a while like xatlas, etc.

thx. just my 2 c.

[Toddzilla]

if that car was black I'd buy it....go to a 5 series board, talk about hacking up the last of the handmade M5's and be surprised when you get a negative reaction...

jackass...

I've got the same thing posted on the M5 board. ;)

And like I said before, it's the super-awesome car that everybody wants to admire, and nobody wants to own.

I wasn't surprised by the negative reaction, I was surprised by the hair trigger personal attacks.

[Toddzilla]

He wasn't trying to scare you. Please hang around a bit and let people get to know you before getting confrontational with people that have been on here a while like xatlas, etc.

thx. just my 2 c.

Well if I hadn't been attacked right off the bat, I wouldn't have been so jumpy.

[mike radowski]

I'd like the motor, thanks. I have some complete Ellis Juans for you.

It's your car, do as you wish with it. If the market deems it "rare and valuable", then someone will buy it. If not, build it like you want, and find the right people to give you tech info on the feasibility of such a swap.

[ReiheSechs]

I've thought about it, but between the base car, supporting mods, and the engine+tranny, you end up with $18,000 into a car you'll get 8 back for tops.