100k+ E36 reliability

[clipsey786]

Im looking to buy an E36 M3 soon. But the only ones in my price range have around 100k miles. How reliable is the car after 100k, would it be a good daily driver

[Mad Dog 20/20]

Im looking to buy an E36 M3 soon. But the only ones in my price range have around 100k miles. How reliable is the car after 100k, would it be a good daily driver

Very reliable car if it has been properly maintained. Do a search for the maintenance issues or take a look at the list at the top of the forum page.

[bmwpower]

Subscribed...in the same market.

[paul e]

What is your budget for repairs/maintenance, etc? Its not at all unusual, according to many pros Ive spoken with, for E36 engines with 100-125k on the clock, to require valve, and/or bottom end rebuilds. Or headgasket replacements. Then, dont forget the checklist at http://www.edgemotorworks.com . Watch out for the rear towers under the rsms.. examine it closely with a flashlight or better for cracks. Everybody knows what a great handling car the E36 is. But just watch out for a few well known problem spots on these cars. Another is check the fifth gear transmission gate on a manual, when its cold; it commonly disappears, only to come back when warmed up. And of course, theres the well known cooling system plastic bits which tend to fail over time. Just educate yourself to the potential failure points, and if you feel you have the budget to take care of them, they are great cars.

[Mad Dog 20/20]

Its not at all unusual, according to many pros Ive spoken with, for E36 engines with 100-125k on the clock, to require valve, and/or bottom end rebuilds. Or headgasket replacements.

Really? I heard the opposite from folks I've spoken with. I put my cam kit in at aprox 100k miles and was ready to rebuild the head at the same time, but my tech (who builds race motors) was like: "why . . . for what?"

It is my understanding that the bottom-end is bullet-proof, good for 200k+.

I think the motors that have valve issues are often over-rev victims, and the HG motors are often cooling system failure vics. This stuff is generally very preventable with simple maintenance/upgrades, like a metal water pump/radiator or stiffer tranny bushings . . .

The car has its weak spots. If addressed preventatively, the car is good for 200k. If ignored, you can mis-shift at 20k miles or overheat at 40k miles or blow the rear shock towers at 50k miles.

[bmwpower]

What is your budget for repairs/maintenance, etc? Its not at all unusual, according to many pros Ive spoken with, for E36 engines with 100-125k on the clock, to require valve, and/or bottom end rebuilds. Or headgasket replacements.

What?! So you only get 125K out of these motors?

[GG///M3]

Really? I heard the opposite from folks I've spoken with. I put my cam kit in at aprox 100k miles and was ready to rebuild the head at the same time, but my tech (who builds race motors) was like: "why . . . for what?"

It is my understanding that the bottom-end is bullet-proof, good for 200k+.

I think the motors that have valve issues are often over-rev victims, and the HG motors are often cooling system failure vics. This stuff is generally very preventable with simple maintenance/upgrades, like a metal water pump/radiator or stiffer tranny bushings . . .

The car has its weak spots. If addressed preventatively, the car is good for 200k. If ignored, you can mis-shift at 20k miles or overheat at 40k miles or blow the rear shock towers at 50k miles.

i agree a friend of mine has a 95 m3 with over 200k on it, never had a rebuild done. the car still runs great. :)

[Veriest1]

I'm at 123,xxx on boost. Preventive maint. is key.

[WytLytnyn]

Im looking to buy an E36 M3 soon. But the only ones in my price range have around 100k miles. How reliable is the car after 100k, would it be a good daily driver

If mileage and reliability are bigger issues than performance to you but 100K miles on it makes you apprehensive, why not look at a 328i with less miles? They're great cars too, not as fast, but slightly cheaper to own and maintain, which seems to be your underlying concern.

If you're not going to go balls to the wall on a regular basis with your 3er, the 328i or 328is is a great choice. A friend of mine bought a 98 328is with 54K miles last year and loves it. At first he thought he would be disappointed with the power deficit vs. the M3, but he really sees that it was the best choice since he rarely drives above 80mph since he is mainly in the city.

[Def]

How is a 328is going to have any cheaper maintenance than an M3? It might not be quite as hard on the suspension bushings with the stock springs and dampers due to them being softer, but beyond that it's actually a weaker chassis(more potential for the unibody to rip apart, and YES, it has happened on E36's) and you have essentially the same engine and transmission save for a few parts. Heck, the whole car is practically the same except for slightly different parts here and there.

If the radiator needs replacing, that's the same, if the valve guides are worn, that's the exact same labor and parts cost, if you need new RSMs, same cost etc. etc.

IMO an M3 is only *very* slightly more expensive with the same maintenance compared to a "normal" E36, and that's only due to some M3 specific parts costing just a hair more. Some shops might not charge as much for E36 work, but that's only because they take you for a sucker thinking you'll pay more for the same work because you have a little M3 badge on the trunk. It's your own fault if you pay a premium due to not shopping around.

[odortiz]

i have a 95 m3 with 120 miles, tracked heavily and still won't burn a drop of oil and passes VA emissions verry clean.
my other is a 94 325is with 180k and does not burn oil. i think the m50 family is bullet-proof.
preventative maint is the key.
i replace water pumps at 60k with stat/stat housing
replace radiator at 90k
all cars have weaknesses.
see the checklist for these cars that's stickied on the top of the forum.

[clipsey786]

So if i shop around for well mentained cars even with high mileage i should be ok?

[RotaryBzzz]

I would go a step further and say get the nicest car, most well maintained car you can afford with the fewest previous owners. Ideally: 1 mature wealthy owner (30+), married, anal-retentive and w/ complete BMW Dealer or BMW specialist records.

No jiffy-lube records. No Pepboy records.

The closer you can get to this, the more likely the car will be a trouble-free keeper.

[cascrnwrtr74]

At 88K on a '99, I am realizing that there are many little things to watch out for and maintain on these cars. At first, I wasn't happy with the thought of having to replace a bunch of irritating parts. After a long time of putting it off, I finally had to change my rear shock mounts. I knew what to change because of the help in this forum. I said I had a clunking sound coming from the rear end..and bamm! Posts came back about the common RSMs wearing out.

After this I asked about a few other things and found that this forum of E36 M3 owners know what they are talking about and like what they are talking about. Fortunately, these cars are very well built (they just need to be maintained), and because they were well built, the parts that need replacing seem to be common to every owner and therefore predictable. Just spend some time searching through this forum, perhaps under 'milage'.

I find myself ready to tackle the mods now. At 88K my original shocks/springs are toast. I have chosen the KoniSA and H&R Sport spring package based on many reviews here. I don't track my car, so coilovers seem like a waste to "me" on the street. I would rather take the $400 difference and buy something else!

Basically, if you never were a DIY type of car owner, this car will bring you into submission and have you searching the forums for the 4th or 10th thing in line that YOU will do to your M3.

Because afterall - labor is so expensive these days...and you start finding out that saving this and that on labor costs pretty soon equals an exhaust, or a this or a that.

So with the M3 like any other car, less owners, and how they drove, really determine which one you should buy. A kid that put a brutal 30K or a mature adult that put 100K on the freeway would be very important to know indeed.

[paul e]

since you guys are nonbelievers, I doubt youve seen more engines than the guys at Pelican parts for bmws. Heres an email a parts mgr there wrote me in response to my inquiry about why my 65k mile M3 engine needed a head rebuild. Its only used synthetic oil, never had an over rev, and just exhibited all the traits of worn valves.. nothing more, nothing less. Nothing 'bent' or 'broken'.. simply Worn. Yes, its supercharged, but the headgasket was in perfect shape, tuning was Excellent, with afrs in the upper 11s and lower 12s under wot.. . . .thats the part that you usually here about going when the head is involved. In my case, the gasket was fine, but the valves were toast:

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Let me begin by saying that my input is that of a parts-guy. I'm not a technician. Although I've built motors as a hobby for 20+ years.

That said, I've seen numerous E36 M3's come thru the dealership needing complete valve jobs/head gaskets at 120-150K miles. These cars were bone-stock. Taking your upgrades into consideration, you've basically aged every seal, gasket, and bearing at twice the normal rate. I would even recommend a bottom end over-haul. What I'm saying is, you've put such a strain on the top of the motor, who knows how long the piston rings et al will last. S52 engines (and most other BMW motors) will give you great compression readings up to 200K miles. After that, I'd say the bottom end will give-out fairly quick. If my formula is correct, the seals/bearings/oil pump will go around 100K for this car.

I don't want to seem like a prophet of doom here, but if you want the power, you gotta pay the price. This car (stock) is totally usable for around 250K miles before a major motor re-build. You're just speeding up the clock....

It's a bummer about the valve job, but I'm sure you've enjoyed the ride thus far. I think it's worth the trouble to repair the broken bits as well as replace those about to go..

Let me know how it comes out,

Josh xxxxxxx
BMW Product Sales-Pelican Parts
-------------------------------------------------------------

He kind of contradicts himself when he first says that theyve seen numerous bone stock M3s needing head work by 125k miles, and later says should be fine to 200k miles... Some last; some dont.. Pays yer moneys, take yer chances...

[waferGS]

My '99 was bought with 136k miles for $13.2k + tax/registration ($14.5k). (Single owner - mostly freeway.) Compression check #'s range ~188PSI all around, so I am guessing that's good. Car still has more than enough power for my daily routine.

As others pointed out -- be patient and look for a car that has fewest owners and most complete records. Take into consideration what the typical costs are for maintenance items and factor that into the asking price.
It IS scary to buy into a sports coupe like the M not knowing how the previous owners drove it.

My car has little things here and there that need replacing and it'll cost me some $$$, bt it's all worth it in the end! :D
(that and I'm a little bit of a fix-it-yourself junky and enjoy fixing little things on a car -- just not big things, like engines. ;))

There's also a few posts about high-mileage M's on the forum - lots of people >>150k and running fine.

[GQ_Style]

My 318 has 220,000 miles and counting. Um. Stock clutch, but needs a new one eventually. Hills scare me (and I live in San Francisco :eyecrazy ). BMW's can last forever if you don't abuse them and keep up with maintenance. I would dare venture to say that my BMW E36 is more reliable than my Honda Civic (BMW = Timing "metal unbreakable" Chain, Honda = Timing "rubber replace at 70k miles or death" Belt).

[m3fuz]

I'm on ~111K and have only replaced the radiator (recently too) and the car still runs like a dream. I bought it at just under 70k from the dealership that maintained it, so I had full access to service records and such. Like others have said, if the car has been well maintained, you should not have any unusual problems. Good luck in your search.

[VahramHS]

I don't see how you can compare your car being supercharged to one that is not. Your car is making a lot more power than stock, of course things are going to fail faster. I am sure your car runs at much higher cylindar pressures with the supercharger and your EGTs are probably also a little higher than stock. Either way, if you get 150k out of these motors I think that is a pretty good life.


since you guys are nonbelievers, I doubt youve seen more engines than the guys at Pelican parts for bmws. Heres an email a parts mgr there wrote me in response to my inquiry about why my 65k mile M3 engine needed a head rebuild. Its only used synthetic oil, never had an over rev, and just exhibited all the traits of worn valves.. nothing more, nothing less. Nothing 'bent' or 'broken'.. simply Worn. Yes, its supercharged, but the headgasket was in perfect shape, tuning was Excellent, with afrs in the upper 11s and lower 12s under wot.. . . .thats the part that you usually here about going when the head is involved. In my case, the gasket was fine, but the valves were toast:

---------------------------------------------------------
Let me begin by saying that my input is that of a parts-guy. I'm not a technician. Although I've built motors as a hobby for 20+ years.

That said, I've seen numerous E36 M3's come thru the dealership needing complete valve jobs/head gaskets at 120-150K miles. These cars were bone-stock. Taking your upgrades into consideration, you've basically aged every seal, gasket, and bearing at twice the normal rate. I would even recommend a bottom end over-haul. What I'm saying is, you've put such a strain on the top of the motor, who knows how long the piston rings et al will last. S52 engines (and most other BMW motors) will give you great compression readings up to 200K miles. After that, I'd say the bottom end will give-out fairly quick. If my formula is correct, the seals/bearings/oil pump will go around 100K for this car.

I don't want to seem like a prophet of doom here, but if you want the power, you gotta pay the price. This car (stock) is totally usable for around 250K miles before a major motor re-build. You're just speeding up the clock....

It's a bummer about the valve job, but I'm sure you've enjoyed the ride thus far. I think it's worth the trouble to repair the broken bits as well as replace those about to go..

Let me know how it comes out,

Josh xxxxxxx
BMW Product Sales-Pelican Parts
-------------------------------------------------------------

He kind of contradicts himself when he first says that theyve seen numerous bone stock M3s needing head work by 125k miles, and later says should be fine to 200k miles... Some last; some dont.. Pays yer moneys, take yer chances...

[LIL RAJA]

subscribed to the thread.
i have a 95 m3...

Raja

[calicoupe]

I agree with waferGS.

Also, get it PPI from BMW Shop.

If you need some help locating an indie bmw shop, I think their is independent associaiton for BMW mechanics. These shops not only have the knowledge but the most up to date software and techniques to fix or diagnose your problem and surely they can inspect your car.

If possible, if the car was service at BMW Dealer, get the service records.

Just my thougths but at the end of the day buy the best car possible based on your budget.

Good luck on your search.

[aespen]

I would go a step further and say get the nicest car, most well maintained car you can afford with the fewest previous owners. Ideally: 1 mature wealthy owner (30+), married, anal-retentive and w/ complete BMW Dealer or BMW specialist records.

I concur with this statement. I did exactly this with my M3/4. Bought it at 82K. At 101K now and all I've had to spend any real money on is the the fun stuff (suspension & boost!). Of course I probably just cursed myself...

[bmwpower]

I agree with waferGS.

Also, get it PPI from BMW Shop.

If you need some help locating an indie bmw shop, I think their is independent associaiton for BMW mechanics. These shops not only have the knowledge but the most up to date software and techniques to fix or diagnose your problem and surely they can inspect your car.

If possible, if the car was service at BMW Dealer, get the service records.

Just my thougths but at the end of the day buy the best car possible based on your budget.

Good luck on your search.

What if the seller runs an indie shop? Would getting them to run some tests suffice? I was thinking they'd be biased, but it may be better than nothing.

Getting a BMW shop to do an inspection is sometimes hard to do because of they are often far away.

[RRdawho?]

I have 175k on my car, took to it Edge Motorworks, and they were amazed at my cars condition, I wasn't even leaking any oil at the seals :rofl

[waferGS]

What if the seller runs an indie shop? Would getting them to run some tests suffice? I was thinking they'd be biased, but it may be better than nothing.

Getting a BMW shop to do an inspection is sometimes hard to do because of they are often far away.

If they're a well known shop and are willing to put it down on paper, the results should be good. But, if there was an alternate shop nearby, I'd have a second opinion. It's likely biased in the other direction -- toward getting you to replace worn parts. ;)

That is the information you'd want to know -- a list of stuff that should replaced soon, and not a list of things are just OK.

[96cosmosM3]

Its not at all unusual, according to many pros Ive spoken with, for E36 engines with 100-125k on the clock, to require valve, and/or bottom end rebuilds. .

I got 150k and 207k on my cars. Both are unopened/original.

If a supercharged car needs to pull the head off at 65k then that should be a warning to stay away from any used car that is/or have been FI IMHO. Stock/mildly modified cars shouldn't have a problem at 125k.