Front LCA removal questions

[kentd98]

I've read two different tutorials on removing the front LCAs. One tutorial says to separate the ball joints using a pickle fork, while the other tutorial says to just tap the control arm with a rubber mallet.

Question 1: Will a rubber mallet really work?

Question 2: Can I use an air hammer with the pickle fork to make the ball joint separation uber easy? I saw a Lisle pickle fork kit at sears.com that included an air hammer adapter.

Thanks,
Kent

[Hammdy]

Yeah you can use a mallet if you don't have a pickle fork. I don't think a rubber one would work though, I use a metal one. If you're reusing it then don't hit the ball joint, otherwise just hit it out that will make it easier. Or yeah use an air tool with a pickle dealie, that will work even better.

[Patrokloss]

If the control arms on your E36 are remotely similar to the ones on the M3, I'd say the chances of separating them with a rubber mallet are slim to none. You could try it, but you'd better have a Plan B. :)

A pickle fork and a nice big sledgehammer will do the trick. Never tried the air hammer.

[10kken]

When I replaced my LCAs recently, I had to used BOTH a pickle fork underneeth and a Pittman arm puller on top to push the ball joint down. The ball joints can really get jammed on there.

Even if you don't need both you should have them there ib case you need them. Once you start this job you can't really go anywhere until you're done!

[Robert]

Get a fork and a mini-sledge hammer.. The outer joints took about 5-10 two handed hits before they popped out. The Inner ball joints I used the same method, they came loose after about 4-5 hits.

Using a fork like this totally destroys the rubber boots on the balljoints.

[Patrokloss]

Agreed--if you use the fork you will need to replace the balljoints afterward.

[leedawg]

Get a fork and a mini-sledge hammer.. The outer joints took about 5-10 two handed hits before they popped out. The Inner ball joints I used the same method, they came loose after about 4-5 hits.

Using a fork like this totally destroys the rubber boots on the balljoints.
Quick question. Do the new control arms that buy come with new rubber boots for the ball joints? How do you avoid messing up the rubber boots around the ball joints and getting the control arms seperated?

[bitcore]

the ball joints are a complete unit, so yes. the rubber boots hold the lubricating greese & protect them from the elements so you dont have to constatnly lube them. Thus, you can't really re-use the ball joint after that unles you replace the boot.
I just did mine last weekend, I had to go get a pickle fork to separate the outter ball joint. The subframe joint on me left front came right out with a sledge though :P
Note: do not hit DOWN on the fork like your prying it apart, that is WRONG. The fork is a wedging device, you hammer it in like you would hammer in a nail into wood. Much easier, and it will just pop right out.

[Paperboy415]

I did my lca and lcabs...used a metal mallet to hit the balljoints with...one fell out easy the other took some barry bonds type swings to get it out...works...

[leedawg]

I did my lca and lcabs...used a metal mallet to hit the balljoints with...one fell out easy the other took some barry bonds type swings to get it out...works...
Awsome. So did you just reuse the old boots that were on the joints when you put the new arms in? Or did the new arms come with new boots? Or did you buy new boots and install them at the same time? One last question have you replaced your tie rods as well, If so what did you replace the clamps on the boots of the steering rack with? They are these weird BMW crimped on clamps that look like they need a special tool or something to put another one on.

[bitcore]

like I said, the new arms come with new boots.

[leedawg]

like I said, the new arms come with new boots.
My bad jus saw the post below yours:D Thanks for the info very informative im going to be doing mine this coming weekend. So going to go over to sears and buy myself a pickle fork for the job. Did you use dishsoap for the bushings or the actual BMW lubricant?

[10kken]

My bad jus saw the post below yours:D Thanks for the info very informative im going to be doing mine this coming weekend. So going to go over to sears and buy myself a pickle fork for the job. Did you use dishsoap for the bushings or the actual BMW lubricant?

dish soap works very well, BMW no longer makes the lubricant in question. The key with getting the bushings on is to lubricate both the end of the control arm and the inside of the bushing very liberally. Let the dish soap sit on the bushing for a few minutes before putting it on - this will allow the soap to penetrate a bit and the bushing should go right on with a good pull just using your hands.

Another tool that can be usefull for getting the control arm out is a Pittman arm puller. It essentiall pushes the the stud end of the ball joint down while pulling itself onto the knucle that the arm attaches to. you can find these at Sears, and places like AutoZone have them as part of their loan-a-tool program.

They look like this.

[leedawg]

Awsome Yeah Ill probably just use my three claw bearing puller to pull the old one off the arm, and punch the center of the stud to center the bolt in the bearing puller. BUt Thanks for th input on the lube and glad to hear our only option is now dish soap for the lube. Does BMW use dishsoap now too?? :) Thanks again

Lee

[Cwaters]

Don't spend a lot on a pickle fork (ball joint seperator). I got mine at autozone for like $7. It worked just fine.
No way to really whack the top of the old CA with enough force to get the ball joint seperated. Just not enough room in there.
one problem I had with the job was the driver's side inner ball joint nut. It's a total biatch getting a wrench on there. my combination wrench was too long to get any turn w/o hitting something so I had to use a small C-wrench. Doing the 1/4 turn/ fip wrench / 1/8 turn...fun times...
CW

[leedawg]

Why is the drivers side worse than the other side? I was just going to go over to sears and pick up a pickel fork set but you say autozone has em for seven bucks thats a steal!!! Would a stubby wrench be more effective on that nut on the drivers side??

[Paperboy415]

we'll you don't hit the top of the balljoint...impossible due to the spindle/dust guard from the brakes...you just hit the side/from the bottom...it dislodges the balljoint and it falls right out...

[sweet e36 pimp]

just use a pickle fork like mentioned previously and a mini-sledge. my ball joints were pretty much siezed in. i had to beat the sit out of it many many times. buy a set of lca's from fcpgroton.com off ebay. $195.00 for both arms, including inner/ outer ball joints, l&r tie rods, and new lcab's. let me recommend not using the stock bushings, but solid rubber units instead. wether you go offset, or centered. the stock lcab's suck. get an offset pair of lemforders from an m3, or something spearical. much better feel.

[leedawg]

Well I bought the pickle fork set at sears. It has three differnt sizes an adapter to fit into my air hammer so I should be good to go I think. Thanks for the input guys ill let you know how the job goes for me.

[bitcore]

It's harder on the driver side to get the inner ball joint nut off because of the room you have with one of the engine components. It's alloy hoses are in the way and you can't remove them. This gives you some 30 degrees of mobility to cram a wrench in there, and you can only use a wrench that's not very long. You'll see. A ratchet WILL NOT fit, a ratcheting wrench of the right size would be worth the 20 bucks or so, in retrospect. You got to pretty much torque the new nut back on as hard as you possibly can, since you aren’t going to have enough leverage, nor have any possible way of getting a torque wrench in there (remember, a regular socket wont fit)

I just loosened the outer joint's nut all the way to the top, used the pickle fork to break it loose, then used vice-grips to keep the ball joint from spinning in it's socket while I removed the bolt the rest of the way out.

[leedawg]

Sweet well I will soon find out as soon as all my parts show up so I can put them in. WOuld a U joing on a short socket fit in there then get on it with an extension? Or is that just out of the question?

[bitcore]

You need lots of torque, and maybe more than 1 u-joint. When you do that, you need something to bench the wrench on to keep it's axis still, and it would wind up being more of a pain in the ass than just laying there doing this:
1. Turning it a bit
2. Flipping the crescent over so it's angle is different.
and repeat the two steps until the bolt is on\off. Works just fine, takes about 10 minutes, good exorcise. Turn on the radio and listen to some music to pass the time, sip on a beer. (Limit yourself to 2 beers per ball joint or you'll just start getting pissed off lol)

[leedawg]

LOL I get the idear. Yeah sounds like a pain in the arse. Hate those kind of bolts where you move the wrench about 5 mm and grab on again to just do it over and over painstankinly inching the nut or bolt out :D Well Ill have my ipod going on the car stero while I lay under the car curising how anybody could put a bolt right there :D

[bitcore]

Hey it could be worse, you could have to take that engine component completely off before you can even access the bolt :P
The dodge intrepid requires you to disassemble the airbox, remove the front right tire, and remove the wheel well JUST to be able to replace the car battery... (mythbusters, season 1, episode 13: Jet Taxi)
... One of the many reasons I'm so hooked on german engineering :D

[leedawg]

Hey it could be worse, you could have to take that engine component completely off before you can even access the bolt :P
The dodge intrepid requires you to disassemble the airbox, remove the front right tire, and remove the wheel well JUST to be able to replace the car battery... (mythbusters, season 1, episode 13: Jet Taxi)
Are you serious. I would be so pissed off if I had to do that for any car to just get the battery out!!

[bitcore]

Yep, and I've got proof.
http://alt.bitcore.org/stuff/bmw-forums/dumb_engineers.avi (xvid, 1.1mb)
Redicuious huh?

can't see the video? download FFDshow here: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ffdshow/ffdshow-20041012.exe?download

[leedawg]

Yep, and I've got proof.
http://alt.bitcore.org/stuff/bmw-forums/dumb_engineers.avi (xvid, 1.1mb)
Redicuious huh?

can't see the video? download FFDshow here: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ffdshow/ffdshow-20041012.exe?download
Jesus that is insane. I would be so pissed off, much like that guy was.

[hellrot325]

Reminds me of the fact that on thr E36:

1) the coolant drain plug on the block is positioned so that the exiting coolant hits the exhaust, causing the coolant to go everyewhere but in the drain pan

2) To remove the diff, the rear sway bar has to be removed (or at least moved) because it passes right in front of the two diff mounting bolts

3) the engine has to be lifted to change the oil pan gasket

Granted, these are not as common as changing a battery, but all cars have their repair issues like this. And German engineering can give you solutions like this lil bastard :mad

[themadhatter]

get an offset pair of lemforders from an m3, or something spearical. much better feel.


this is a mistake if you don't buy the appropriate '95 M3 control arms.

you geometry will be all out of whack.

if you're going to go this route, consider getting the '95 m3 strut hats as well to complete the setup.

-Ron <- using offset control arm bushings and '94 m3 control arms. ;)

[hellrot325]

this is a mistake if you don't buy the appropriate '95 M3 control arms.

you geometry will be all out of whack.

if you're going to go this route, consider getting the '95 m3 strut hats as well to complete the setup.

-Ron <- using offset control arm bushings and '94 m3 control arms. ;) The 95 M3 LCA are the same geometry as the Non-M's, no? I thought using the 95 M3 LCAB w/ non-M LCA simply gives you more caster...same as the 96+ LCA (caster built in, diff geometry) w/ the centered 96+M3 LCAB.

The problem is using 96+ M3 LCA w/ 95 m3 LCAB

This from the Bimmerworld Catalog: Replacement factory bushings from M3 cars (fit all E30/36 3 Series), made of rubber. We recommend using offset for performance in all 3 Series cars except the 1996-1999 E36 M3, which requires centered bushings. Sold in pairs."

[leedawg]

The 95 M3 LCA are the same geometry as the Non-M's, no? I thought using the 95 M3 LCAB w/ non-M LCA simply gives you more caster...same as the 96+ LCA (caster built in, diff geometry) w/ the centered 96+M3 LCAB.

The problem is using 96+ M3 LCA w/ 95 m3 LCAB

This from the Bimmerworld Catalog: Replacement factory bushings from M3 cars (fit all E30/36 3 Series), made of rubber. We recommend using offset for performance in all 3 Series cars except the 1996-1999 E36 M3, which requires centered bushings. Sold in pairs."
I thought that radiator clip was genious. It works great snaps off really easilly and it tightnes up really easily.

[hellrot325]

I thought that radiator clip was genious. It works great snaps off really easilly and it tightnes up really easily. Must be like videogames, gotta be young to figure them out...although Ii do kick some ass a Tiger Woods! :D

[leedawg]

Must be like videogames, gotta be young to figure them out...although Ii do kick some ass a Tiger Woods! :D
Mabye :D LOL, You just put a small flat head in the upper slot and push it back and they unclip like a snowboard binding. Works great, then when your all done you just push it back down and it clicks back in, to tighten up they made a grove that you can lever the thing down with another flat head screw driver. Mabye im crazy but I thougth the things were very well designed and genuious. All the reading I did on here I was expecting it to be hell.

[themadhatter]

The 95 M3 LCA are the same geometry as the Non-M's, no? I thought using the 95 M3 LCAB w/ non-M LCA simply gives you more caster...same as the 96+ LCA (caster built in, diff geometry) w/ the centered 96+M3 LCAB.

The problem is using 96+ M3 LCA w/ 95 m3 LCAB

This from the Bimmerworld Catalog: Replacement factory bushings from M3 cars (fit all E30/36 3 Series), made of rubber. We recommend using offset for performance in all 3 Series cars except the 1996-1999 E36 M3, which requires centered bushings. Sold in pairs."
you raise a good point. :dunno

[sweet e36 pimp]

as long as you aren't mixing hats and bushings between the 2 generations of design, i don't see an issue. i am running stock strut hats with offset lcab's all specific to <'95 on my 93, with increased caster and what seems like slightly increased camber. i have no issues, and the car is more stable at high speeds with the solid units.

[sweet e36 pimp]

another thing.... the 96-99 m uses centered bushings, because the design of the control arm itself incorporates the caster/ camber. the e30 and e36 control arms are interchangeable before '96 from what i understand.