e34 camber kit?

[Hypr5]

Hey guys...

Lowering the car soon, but I dont want my tires to last about 10k mi. I want to maximize their life. Any ideas on who sells a camber kit for the e34? I saw one on ebay for $169 once, but never again.

also - someone on here told me that it isnt really the camber that kills them, its the toe... will a kit fix that too?

Thanks!

[E34nication]

turner motorsports offers a kmac adj. camber/castor kit. i have had it for about 6 months but i am waiting for the co's before i install it. it is a very high quality piece, though.

[Alan]

Ground Control also offers adjustable camber plates.

[AutoCouture]

ireland kits are really good i hear


-Sal

[Mobius20]

Perhaps I'm an idiot - but I still can't see how a plate that changes the position of the upper strut mount can change the camber of a wheel mounted completely rigidly to a swingarm with only one axis of rotation. Maybe there's a very small amount of adjustment to be had by tweaking against the rubber swingarm bushings, but that seems like a hack.

In my experience, lowering my car alone only pushes the rear camber out to just under the limits of the spec. Even with my large sub box in the trunk and a full gas tank, the rear camber is still juuuust within spec. The rear TOE is however out of spec unless I run less than a half tank of gas.

The REAL way to adjust this is to replace the rear trailing arm bushings with eccentric ones. Don't get the ones from BMA, though - as they're only adjustable when they're pressed into the arms, and never again. Meaning: you have to remove the trailing arm and press the bushings out, rotate them, and reinstall them to adjust the rear alignment. This is an obscene amount of work.

Get ones with an eccentric BOLT - you'll know because one end of the bolt will be cut flat so that it can be twisted while still on the car. It's still a bitch to press in new trailing arm bushings, but at least you can adjust them on the car. I believe Korman sells these type of bushings - but you should check with them to be sure.

But - even with my toe alignment out - my tire wear isn't extreme - it's not as good as I'd like it to be, but I'm looking at ABOUT 15k per tire edge. Swapping the tires on the wheels changes the wear to the previously-untouched outside edge, so you get some more life out of them.

Lower your car first - then take it to an alignment shop and see how far out it is. If its live-able, then live with it. If it's way out, then order up some bushings, install 'em, and head back to the shop saying "hey, I think my rear alignment is off".

I kid. That's dishonest. -But it's also what the guy at Les Schwab told me to do. :)

[abakos]

Mobius...the wheel isn't "mounted completely rigidly to a swingarm", on an E34 the front wheels are connected to the control arms by what we call "ball joints". The camber plates up front will move the top of the strut either left or right to adjust camber. It's really quite simple. Concerning the front wheels, the location of the strut mount determines castor and camber. There's no other way to adjust it on an E34. Concerning the rear wheels, you are correct, the eccentric bushings/bolts are the most popular way to adjust rear alignment.

The toe adjustment is what will seriously kill tire life. If the tires are angled towards eachother too much they will wear themselves out in a big damn hurry. (The same is true if they're angled AWAY from eachother too much) This can also cause some scalping on the outside edge of the tread.

The camber setting will how flat the tire is sitting on the road, so the greater the camber setting, the greater the difference in wear between the inside edge and outside edge of the tire.

The best advice I can give you is to get adjustable camber plates if you get them at all. KMAC and Ground Control are the best places for you to look. I can't remember if Ireland Engineering (I think it's called) has adjustables or not, I'm pretty sure they have non-adjustables. Dinan also carried non-adjustable camber plates.

The reason I recommend the adjustable camber plates is because it's nice to have the adjustment. Just the geometry of the car or something you don't think about might cause very slight differences from side to side, and the adjustable plates will allow you to compensate if you need to.

The KMAC plates seem to get pretty solid reviews from what I've read.

Best of luck either way. You might try asking some of the other guys (theDogger, Phatfarm, Gamite, Shragon) about lowering E34s. I believe they all have lowering kits, I don't know how many have put in camber kits. They may be able to give you a feel for what it will do to your alignment.

[Alan]

I have a set of Ireland non-adjustable -1 or -1.5 (not sure) degree front camber plates. Decided not to install them. Email me if interested.

[Mblaster]

Camber plates will make your E34 handle MUCH better.
The car will still understeer at the limit but that limit is pushed farther. :cool

[Mobius20]

Mobius...the wheel isn't "mounted completely rigidly to a swingarm", on an E34 the front wheels are connected to the control arms by what we call "ball joints". I'm sorry, what? You thought I was talking about the front suspension when I said "mounted rigidly to a swingarm"? I really need to stop assuming that people think logically...

OF COURSE you can adjust the front suspension with a adjustable strut mount. When you lower an E34, though, the front alignment doesn't change much. I have nothing but completely stock suspension components on my lowered 535 and the front comes up within spec every time I take it for an alignment. Sure, it changes a little - and you could use the plates to make it 'more in spec' like it was before it was lowered - but it's not a huge issue like the rear is. My last set of front tires wore completely evenly - if maybe a tiny bit to the inside edge. Just like they're supposed to.

The thing is, adjustable rear strut mounts exist - and I can't for the life of me figure out how they can adjust a damn thing by themselves. That's the point I was addressing.


Best of luck either way. You might try asking some of the other guys (theDogger, Phatfarm, Gamite, Shragon) about lowering E34s. I believe they all have lowering kits, I don't know how many have put in camber kits. They may be able to give you a feel for what it will do to your alignment.Yeah. You're talking to a guy with first-hand experience right here.

[Road_Carver]

Hey guys,
Thanx for the info. I have a '93 525it that I will be lowering 1st chance I get, now I know they have wagon-specific lowering kits out there (what is a good one?), but are these front and rear camber kits you are talking about also sedan/wagon specific?

[Cacatfish]

Hey guys,
Thanx for the info. I have a '93 525it that I will be lowering 1st chance I get, now I know they have wagon-specific lowering kits out there (what is a good one?), but are these front and rear camber kits you are talking about also sedan/wagon specific?

Kmac makes (or at least made) a rear kit for the E34s. I got one with my 525i but sold it. It is not wagon or sedan specific as far as I can see, since the basic layout is the same.
Indeed, it is supposed to be the rear toe that will kill your tires.

They work simply: the trailing arm bushings are replaced with eccentrics that allow you to alter both the toe and camber, by altering the individual angles as well as the angles between the two arms. Kinda need a graphic demonstration for it to really make sense, I guess. Check Bavauto and also give Ireland a call (though I know Ireland has stopped carrying Kmac fronts due to quality control issues). BMP also carries Kmac.

[540man]

I have the Bavauto front and rear camber kits on my e34. Rears are an absolute must if lowering and going with wider wheels / tires.
The Bavauto rear kit is adjustable for camber and toe, simple turn of the eccentric bolts.
Front is the upper plate assembly.
My car is within factory spec even though is is lowered. Before kits, rear was horribly out of whack and wearing out tires. Front was ok even without kit.
I checked around, seems the Bavouto was best bang for buck, and are quite well built. Bit of labor to get the rear kits in though, bushings need to be pressed out / in.

[Mobius20]

I have the Bavauto front and rear camber kits on my e34. Rears are an absolute must if lowering and going with wider wheels / tires.
The Bavauto rear kit is adjustable for camber and toe, simple turn of the eccentric bolts.What the hell.. The bavauto kit I got for my E34 doesn't even come with bolts, it's the bushings that are eccentric - meaning that any adjustment requires pressing the bushings out and back in again.

I'm feeling screwed... I should've returned this junk when I had the chance.

[540man]

Hmm, not sure which BavAuto rear kit you have, but mine adjusts with a turn of a wrench.

[theDogger]

Do not waste your money unless you are tracking the car......If your suspension is installed correctly and all the other componets are replaced or in great shape you should have no odd tire wear......I have had a set of Nitto 555 235/40x18 on my ride for 25k and have not even rotated them and I have no odd wear like I have heard about. Plus if you go with the Koni's and Eibach you will not even need Camber Plates..Talk to Jay at Ground control. Plus make sure that you get the alignment done..

My 2 Cents

theDogger

[abakos]

I'm sorry, what? You thought I was talking about the front suspension when I said "mounted rigidly to a swingarm"? I really need to stop assuming that people think logically...

OF COURSE you can adjust the front suspension with a adjustable strut mount. When you lower an E34, though, the front alignment doesn't change much. I have nothing but completely stock suspension components on my lowered 535 and the front comes up within spec every time I take it for an alignment. Sure, it changes a little - and you could use the plates to make it 'more in spec' like it was before it was lowered - but it's not a huge issue like the rear is. My last set of front tires wore completely evenly - if maybe a tiny bit to the inside edge. Just like they're supposed to.

The thing is, adjustable rear strut mounts exist - and I can't for the life of me figure out how they can adjust a damn thing by themselves. That's the point I was addressing.

Yeah. You're talking to a guy with first-hand experience right here.

Sorry Mobius- You're right on the rears. I'm still holding my ground on the bad toe=tire wear argument though :)

Dogger is wise, and make sure whatever you get it is adjustable.

[Johnny 5]

Just thought I would mention that the M Sport 540i's and M5's have adjustable toe rear subframes.

[E34N]

so, I just want to clarify this... I just lowered my car about a week ago. Eibach springs with Boge shocks. (I do not track my car... it's pretty much only driven on weekends.. about 25-50 miles/week)

I've read enuff to know that the Dogger knows his shi*.

so pls tell me if this is a correct statement - " I do not need a camber kit for the front or the rear.. just an alignment."

thanks in advance.

[theDogger]

" I do not need a camber kit for the front or the rear.. just an alignment."

well let me say this. Unless your car has been in an accident and the frame is bent then the tire wear should not be a problem. Taking into consideration...the rest of the parts that fuction in the suspension are in good shape or new. General rule of thumb but hard to follow becasue of cost. If you are lowering your car and you have more than 100k on it...it is now time to change some parts. If I was to make a list of part that I would change it would be as follows...


General
Upper Arms
Lower Arms
Sway links
750i bushings ( important to have these torqued when the car is level w/ a full tank and 2 passengers)


Front Strut
Replace all Bolts with new
Replace all bump stops (bilstiens do not need bumps..have internal)
Replace all dust boots (bilstien have there own)
Replace Struts rubber mounts
Replace upper and lower rubber gaskets

Rear end
Replace all Bolts with new
Replace all bump stops (bilstiens do not need bumps..have internal)
Replace all dust boots (bilstien have there own)
Replace Shocks rubber mounts
Replace upper and lower rubber gaskets
Replace the dog bones
Inspect...and replace the sub frame bushings

If you still have some extra cash replace the tie rods, drag link and idle arm.

Now I realize that this is a lot but you will not believe the difference in the car once you have everyting back on.

As far as tire pressure...I run 38-40 up front and 36-38 in the rear.


If you are going to track the car or just want the option...then by all means get a front camber kit. I would lean towards a Fix mount. But the 300-400 that you might spend on the kit could go towards the replacement of warn parts. I would try and replace everyting that you can afford and then go from there.

I would buy a front stress bar and sway bar before the camber kit!

If your car is tracking good and no funny tread wear now then if you just swap the shock/struts and springs then an alignment is not warrented. But would not hurt to have it checked. If you go as far as swapping what I suggested then an alignment has to be done.


my 2 cents

theDogger

[Bahnstoermer]

Good thread guys. My 92 535i tracks perfectly and handles quite well from an adhesion standpoint... very predictable, fairly high grip, just way to much roll. At 98k gently-driven-by-previous-family member miles, I'm going to do the struts/springs and have alignment checked and hope no more parts are necessary. Will probably be a few weeks, but I'll post back my results to add to the reference file.

Alex

[Johnny 5]

DO NOT ever run lower rear tire pressure on a car with fully independent suspension. You will have tire wear problems and handling issues.

I have 255 rear with Dinan springs and the tires do not at all contact the pavement evenly. I know I need to change all the steering and suspension parts. Is it best just to get all new struts?

[Mr Project]

Guys, there is nothing to align on the rear wheels of a standard E34. I don't know about the M5 or M540s...there might be an adjustment there.

But 535s and 525s do not have anything to align in the rear. That is why eccentric or adjustable bushings are available from the aftermarket, to help restore factory camber and toe settings after you've lowered the car.

Worn stock bushings can obviously aggrevate the problem as well...so good condition bushings are a good idea. But understand, if you really lower the back of the car, you will change the camber and toe settings, and that can not be corrected with just an alignment. You have to replace some parts.

[IzzE46]

What about getting camber kits for the E39? I have a 97 588i and I am going to lower it. I am getting the Koni's, will I need to get the camber kits?

[pspassos]

sorry for bringing it back from the graveyard..... I am thinking of buying this K-Mac ones.... or the street/race or the full race once and for all.... I have an e34 '95 Euro M5.... do you guys think that the diference in durability would affect something? is the full race maybe more suitable for breaking in a bad leveled street for example?
The car is used for track, and sporadic rides, it’s not for every day use, for that I use a pickup truck...
this is the email I received from them

Hi Paulo

K-Mac front BMW E34 M5 kit is available in 3 stages.

Stage 1 - Street #193416-1 - steel with ball race bearings and
urethane $370 US pair

Stage 2 - Street/Race #193416-2 - all alloy with pillow ball and
urethane centres $465

Stage 3 - Full Race #193416-3 - all alloy as above but no urethane
solid/no flex $465

Rear Camber and Toe Kit #193326 $320 (set 4)

Fedex Air $90 US

Payment can be made by Visa or MasterCard

Regards
Kevin


another question, what are the limits and the recommended specs of my car? I searched for it but couldnt find it....