Why Stroke a M20 and not Use an M30 Engine?

[grecobeemer]

Ireland engineering has a 3.0l stroker kit for the M20. I dont see why someone would'nt just get a used M30 3.0L and put it in instead. Any ideas?

[323I Junkie]

There is no reason no tot if you are not afraid of engine swaps, however, the 3.3/3.4/3.5 is a greater engine than the m20 in terms of abuse and torque, obviously

[Johnny 5]

I had a 3.0 M20 stoker in my E30. It was a lot of fun and as fast as an E36 M3. I'm not a fan of the M30. You can get just as much power out of an NA M20. The M30 is real heavy and has some engineering flaws, like the cooling system. I'd keep what you have or upgrade to a 3.0 M3 24 valve

[323I Junkie]

I had a 3.0 M20 stoker in my E30. It was a lot of fun and as fast as an E36 M3. I'm not a fan of the M30. You can get just as much power out of an NA M20. The M30 is real heavy and has some engineering flaws, like the cooling system. I'd keep what you have or upgrade to a 3.0 M3 24 valve


What? my m30 makes 217 horses form the factory and twice the torque of a TURBOD m20...it is not hard at all to see 255 horses in an m30, while that 200RW, (235 HP) mark in the m20 is an elusive and expensive number to reach

[5mall5nail5]

What? my m30 makes 217 horses form the factory and twice the torque of a TURBOD m20...it is not hard at all to see 255 horses in an m30, while that 200RW, (235 HP) mark in the m20 is an elusive and expensive number to reach


The extra displacement of the 3.5L is hardly needed in an E30. The M20 stroker is a good solution for the E30/E28 cars and such. There's no reason to put a 3.5L in if you are going NA. The M30 is pretty much topped around 230hp NA... the M20 stroked is right there too weighing less.

[nuke941]

I wasnt even sure why the m20 was so revered, I have on my self.. and I know it so much more fun to drive than the quoted horse power. I didnt know how cool the m20 until I saw this
http://www.bsmotor.com/?id=gatem3/turbom3.html
they put an m20 turbo into a e30 m3.
:eek:

[grecobeemer]

I was just curious if the M30 3.0L swap would be better than paying $2500 for the stroker kit for the 2.5L M20. I also figured with bigger injectors, M30 throttle body, RRFPR and K&N filter would be a cheap alternative to an M20 bored over to the 3.0L. Also an E36 OBD I M3 engine sounds great, but more expensive and more headaches than a swap. I was just curious to cheaper alternatives to the stroker kit. Could you bore out a 2.5L M20 and use M30 3.0L internals?

[Alan]

What? my m30 makes 217 horses form the factory and twice the torque of a TURBOD m20

Twice the torque??? :confused

[323I Junkie]

Oky, all you m20 lovers, remember, I have a 142 horse 2.3 euro car, blast to drive, but hardly a rocket

Also, I spend gobs of time researching to eventually build the coolest N/A m20 there is


Let me save everyone a lot of benchracing;

In 1 year, I have found THREE, count em, THREE examples of m20's laying down over 200 RWHP, SAE correctd, on a reliable dyno. Hell, half the freakin turbo cars were barley doing better than that


IM NOT SYAING THEY ARENT GREAT


But so far, I havent found a single 200 WHP m20 car (pre-91) that lays down a verifiable 200WHP or more for less than 5 grand, or that idles

If I simply wanted rocket power, and old iron, i would so totally go m30 its redficulous
M30: 5-700 bucks
Porting and polishing: Free
Euro cam : 500 with all installation (new rockers, etc)
Header: $475
Chip<$300
Pusher el;ectric fan :400 installed (all the hardware, sensors, etc)
Exhaust, custom< $500
Mustang injectors, roughly $200

Time and again, I've seen that combo make around 235-250 WHP, reliably

745 conversion using factory componnents on that sees you around 315 and more torque than tire



Custom turbo kits on either can get silly, those swedish guys going 10's is nuts

[grecobeemer]

Here's a pic of Bimmerjim's dyno slip
http://www.bimmerjim.com/images/Hosted/081404dyno2.jpg
278HP/332TQ
Alot of guys on the E30tech.com turbo boards are putting down impressive numbers with their own turbo kits. I am tryin gto decide on what I would like to do, when time&money are saved up to get more umph from my M20. I considered selling it and getting a 535i, but I have done a good amount of work to the car, I know it is solid, and like the White ext/Indigo Blue int. :D

I am prodding all you guru's for advice so that all of us E34 M20's, can decide on what option is better, less costly and more reliable.
I really do appresh your :help
Now let us continue the debate :D

[323I Junkie]

You have got to accept that we live in an age where turbo kits are the cheapest bang for the buck. By the time you buy some $500 dollar header and and $700 dollar exhasut, $350 dollar chip, $300 ait filter, yaddayadda, you darn near have bought a turbo kit...thats typical mods for many people, becasu they ar ethe tried and true NA stuff, but its all waste compared to the minimal 50% gains in power FI typicaaly yields. Not to mention altitude compensation. 18 or 1900 in bolt ons comes pretty quick, next thing you know, you are doing cams and high flow intake maniflds and have dropped 3 grand or more over a year or so. I think the best thing to do is take out a small sig loan on the car for 6 or 7 percent and just finish the darn thing. Get your mods, and pay for it. I looked at a turbo kit for my m30 to find market, and I beleive the intercooled kit was about $4900...and that was a 320 wheel hp 8 pound kit, engine ring limited numbers there. To do that NA I would have to see huge vlaves, custom programming, huge cams, standard trans, 3.8L metric mechanic stroker kit...and on and on and on..whereas with that kit and a J&E Piston kit, you could realize over 500 HP , maybe even larger turbo

[big3-5]

Oky, all you m20 lovers, remember, I have a 142 horse 2.3 euro car, blast to drive, but hardly a rocket

Also, I spend gobs of time researching to eventually build the coolest N/A m20 there is


Let me save everyone a lot of benchracing;

In 1 year, I have found THREE, count em, THREE examples of m20's laying down over 200 RWHP, SAE correctd, on a reliable dyno. Hell, half the freakin turbo cars were barley doing better than that


IM NOT SYAING THEY ARENT GREAT


But so far, I havent found a single 200 WHP m20 car (pre-91) that lays down a verifiable 200WHP or more for less than 5 grand, or that idles

If I simply wanted rocket power, and old iron, i would so totally go m30 its redficulous
M30: 5-700 bucks
Porting and polishing: Free
Euro cam : 500 with all installation (new rockers, etc)
Header: $475
Chip<$300
Pusher el;ectric fan :400 installed (all the hardware, sensors, etc)
Exhaust, custom< $500
Mustang injectors, roughly $200

Time and again, I've seen that combo make around 235-250 WHP, reliably

745 conversion using factory componnents on that sees you around 315 and more torque than tire



Custom turbo kits on either can get silly, those swedish guys going 10's is nuts


Well put. :buttrock

While the M30 may have it's quirks, the block & bottom end make up for it with strength.

NA power is maxed out at around 250-260 rwhp, with significant mods.

The beautiful thing about the M30 is it's hospitality for turbocharging. Up to 10 psi non-intercooled is easily achieved for a stock M30B34 (ala e28 535i), and 20+for an intercooled version.

The M30B35 found in the e34 doesn't have the high boost numbers due to higher compression, but is a superior engine, and will probably develop more HP/lbs of boost.

Besides... It doesn't have a rubber band holding everything together... :shifty


Check out:

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/

http://turbo.mye28.com/talkshop/

http://bmwturbos.scottiesharpe.com/portal_content.asp

http://forums.mye28.com/e28/

[323I Junkie]

Yeah, there is just no replacement for displacement

[323I Junkie]

Isnt the 3.4 an oversquare design while the one in the e34 is an undersquare design?

[Johnny 5]

My 3.0 M20 has a Schrick 284/272 cam, custom forged pistons, custom rings, headwork, 3.2 m50 injectors and a 3.5 M30 AFM. I have not put it on a dyno, but I assure you it can roll with an E36 M3. Granted that it is a lighter car where weight is crucial to handling and acceleration. I personally love the sound of the M20 engine, but thats aside.
True the M30 has a stong bottom end and stroke. I had a Jeep 4.0 block I was going to stroke laying around and I measured it compared to an M30 my dad had on the engine stand. They were roughly the same length. I believe it was somewhere around 35 inches. Also the M30 isnt much lighter than the V8 and V12 engines. The M30 has cooling issues when built and pushed hard. There are not enough coolant passages in the cylinder head and they are not large enough.
I would go with the stroked M20 because you'll keep the small engine weight and the super long realiability.

[grecobeemer]

So does that mean you could use a 528td crank and the M30 3.0L internals on the M20 block if it was bored over to a 3.0L? Or is the only solution a stroker kit for the M20? Just knocking around ideas for us with the underpowered M20 E34's.

[Johnny 5]

So does that mean you could use a 528td crank and the M30 3.0L internals on the M20 block if it was bored over to a 3.0L? Or is the only solution a stroker kit for the M20? Just knocking around ideas for us with the underpowered M20 E34's.

You can build an M20 stroker a few different ways. of course there is the 2.7 with stock pistons, but that uses a cast eta crank. It is a nice budget boost because it does not require boring the block. The 2.8, 3.0, and 3.1 strokers use forged cranks, but will require custom made pistons.