I know its been dicussed before, Lsx in a E31

[luapynot]

I did some searching and found some discussion about it but no real details. Im sure that this might fit into another sub-section of this forum but I wanted to be in direct with other E31 owners before going any futher.

First before I start getting flamed about this swap, I just purchased another sweet black 1991 850I on saturday that has no motor no trans. It had a small electrical fire that only damaged some wiring around the alternator. It was totaled out by the insurance and in the process the engine and trans along with some other stuff has come up missing. It seems someone decided they wanted the engine and trans for themselves.

Just to make clear- I really dont want to hear a bunch opinions about how bad of idea this is, and mixing engines between different auto makes is a sin and bla-bla- bla...... This is my car and my money, and its what I want to do. I dont want to come off as a a$$, but I read other old posts where some people just think its wrong. I respect that. I have another really nice E31 that I no intention of swapping out the v12. And if this other E31 that I just got had a v12 in it or just need some simple stuff done to it to get back going again I might consider keeping the v12.
But thats not the situation here. In short if you have some positive advice for me please step up, if not..... well find another thread to troll...

Now to the meat- I have done many swaps, a ls1 into a 1970 camaro, a northstar into a fiero, a ls3 into a 1979 el camino, and many other drag cars over the years. So far its been really simple setups other than the northstar project which took alot of outside help. This time I thinki ts going to be a different situation because of the E31s vast complexity.

I do want to get off track here a bit and say that I havnt enjoyed a car as much as the 850i in a long time. Its, I guess, the attention it gets. Im not a "Hey look at me kind of guy", but my last car was a ZO6. After spending all that money it really wasnt no different than all the other vetts running around. I cant hardly take my 850 anywhere without someone wanting to talk about it, admire it, ect. Its more my efforts of wanting to have something different than have something flashy that gets me excited and not to show off. Its kinda like that commercial that says- 'when you turn your car on, does it return the favor?" And thats the only thing that I miss about the ZO6, the Mach 1, and the turbo surpra that I had in the past is the performance level that those cars had.

So the plan is so far is to get another one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LS3-CHEVY-ENGINE-500-HP-MOTOR-T56-LS1-LS2-LS6-TURNKEY_W0QQitemZ260396905947QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMo tors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item26039690 5947&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A7%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 . I got my last ls3 from this guy. It may be a little high on price for some but Im completly happy with the last setup I got. He is somewhat close to me and stands behind his engines and transmisssions and is always there for any help that I need. So I thinking the goal is to get close to 430-450hp to the ground.

Now this is where Im hoping some of you can step in and help me come up with the problem areas and come up with good solutions to fix them.
Alot of the hurdels are going to have to be figured out at the time of installtion. Like mounts, exhaust, steering, ect. Which hopefully wont be a huge problem, I have a tig, mig, tubing bender, and also have access to almost any tool that I will need for fab work.

Im going to get the car on monday and take it to my buddies shop were it will sit for a little while. Im going to start collecting parts in the coming weeks and hopefully get things going around the first of june. I just sold my boat so I have some loose cash to start shopping.....

The power steering, fuel system, wiring, a/c-heat, ect, is going to be our problem areas. Along with anything else that may come up.
So I guess I will leave it there for now for disscussion....

[nukeduster]

I dig it, its something Ive been thinking of doing to my 840 because supercharging isnt a off-the-shelf option. Its do-able, the best reference points are people who have done the swaps in e34's, e39's, and e38's.

[smokum]

LSX there are all kinds of goodies for the ls1 and ls6

[mvancE30]

maybe i misread it but how do you take your 8 out to show people if it has no engine or trans?

bimmer people do engine swaps all the time. theres no real flak on doing a lsx motor.

[TxGR8White]

maybe i misread it but how do you take your 8 out to show people if it has no engine or trans?

This is how: you read the post carefully and then you will see that it says: First before I start getting flamed about this swap, I just purchased another sweet black 1991 850I on saturday that has no motor no trans.

That means he already has one (that works, drives and looks great).
That is how.
:) :)

[8eights]

Lol! Installing the Lsx is easy once all the mounts are in place, Heat and air condtioning are the lease of your troubles, I'd crank it to atlease 600+hp before the install, Go for it, It will be easy to work on inside a 8 as well, I would enjoy seeing it.

[Fatandre]

Sorry guys. I am interested in this topic, but what is a LSX???

[TxGR8White]

LS-Generation engines from GM. LS2, LS3, LS4, LS6 (That's the one you need to cram in there - with a supercharger if you can)

[rcrad6653]

Sorry guys. I am interested in this topic, but what is a LSX???

LSx=LS(X)<<< insert appropriate GM model of LS engine



Go for it, It will be easy to work on inside a 8 as well, I would enjoy seeing it.

It sure will!.............. :stickoutt

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq138/rcrad6653/motor-46-4V-004.jpg

[luapynot]

So has anyone done this? I enjoy the "go for it!" and like wise, but I already made up my mind.... I doing this, Im just needing a little more info.

I wondering if Im going to have to cut the oil pan or can I use one off a gto or something else?

Fuel System? What in the heck am I going to do here? Run a external pump with the stock e31 tank or swap in another fuel cell/tank from a gm model?

Power steering? How much pressure does the e31 pump make? Will I be able to have some custom hoses made from the e31 to the gm pump?

Electricial- diagrams of the harness', Aw, I dont want to even start thinking about this part, but how is the electrical harness setup in the e31. is the engine management loomed togather with the electrical part of the car? Will I be weeding wires for ever? Wher can I get a pin out diagram?

So many things running in my head right now...... I can picture everything on the GM side, but the E31 side I havnt seen nothing under the hood. I only have swapped the trans out. Looks like plently of room for everything under there.

Whats that driveshaft adapter from JTR ?
I need pics!
If anyone has pics of the engine bay (engine out) of their e31.
Pics of powersteering pump, hoses, fittings.
I need a strong drink...............

[TxGR8White]

Talk to Mwrench

[8eights]

LSx=LS(X)<<< insert appropriate GM model of LS engine




It sure will!.............. :stickoutt

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq138/rcrad6653/motor-46-4V-004.jpgNot sure i understand you, but! The LSX in my hands is capable of over 2,000Hp, It will fit! It's reliable and to put it in the car is not complicated, You can upgrade the steering to a rack easily while in there, The only complications you'll run into would be, Deciding on how many ponies and $$$ that can be allocated to the project.

[Ladislav]

The LSx will fit into an E39 5er - no reason it could not fit into an e31 which can swallow the v12 which the 5er was not made to swallow.

[rcrad6653]

Marv, I did two different quotes in my original post, and the picture was for a reference to the size difference between a BMW overhead cam V8 and a domestic small block to show how much room you'd have to work with, and agree with what you originally said. The other quote was to Andre.

[1yeager]

I did a V8 (Ford 302) into an 88 RX-7. It actually was not a hard one to do. I found a site that made the engine mounting brackets that work with the stock V8 engine mounts. The same site made a syncronizer for the V8 transmission so the original speedo in the RX could be used. I did have to pull the electronic tach on the RX and adjust the one pot to "calibrate" it to the V8 (info also on the particular site).
The couple of things I learned from this experience is the right resources are important. I also learned that to "get around" all the original sensors/systems for the car it is best to use as many original parts as possible. For instance make brackets for the original steering pump, alternator, and AC unit. Also, make an adapter (SAE to Metric) for things like the oil pressure sensor. Things like the driveshaft are relatively easy to get the one yoke cut and another installed and balanced.
I guess what I am saying is think out the project and what is easier to convert. It may take some head scatching on the front end to make the brackets for the original accessories but at least you know all the systems work correctly together versus reinventing wheels you don't have to.

I did do a conversion to a V8 in my TR-6 too. Other than making the space to keep the hood stock it was the easiest ever. I say easiest because all there was to deal with were mechanical/space items/issues. The hardest one tends to be the electronic issues if you want the original car to operate (other than the extra 200HP plus kick in the pants) as original. Problem is the 850 has more elctroinic systems than the space shuttle, so use whatever you can from the original engine and tranny for these systems. Please keep us updated with pics and if there is anything from my experience I will gladly chime up as the project progesses.

[Hobz]

I, like so many others, have experience with the LS1 in an RX7. It was a great engine to work with!

I'm very eager to see what kind of progress you make, there are a few of us on this forum that are interested in this kind of modification :)

I agree that the swap would be the easy part, the wiring is the big unknown. At least you can have a running car with just the LS1 ECU hooked up, and then worry about the gauges later.

You will have to rig something up for the throttle pedal, perhaps putting an LS3 pedal sensor on there (the LS3 has electronic throttle right?).

Fuel system wise, the two stock fuel pumps should be able to provide the flow. You could probably T them together and use a pressure regulator to feed the engine.

[8eights]

Marv, I did two different quotes in my original post, and the picture was for a reference to the size difference between a BMW overhead cam V8 and a domestic small block to show how much room you'd have to work with, and agree with what you originally said. The other quote was to Andre.My assumption was pretty close, Thanks Randy!

[thinman]

I think you should first do some research on the electronics of the E31. It's far mor complex than any other car mentioned in the previous posts.
We have half a dozen electronic control modules in our 8 series and they all talk to each other.

Here in Germany one of our Friend put an M5 V8 in his 840 and even that wasn't easy due to the different data transfer methods and protocolls used by the newer engines.
Engine management is involved in many safety related features (like ABS, ASC, Immobilizer, etc.) and you have to figure out how a non BMW Engine would communicate with the control modules responsible for these subsystems.

I'm not an expert but out of curiosity I spent some time reading about the electronics of my 840 and it's a hell of a lot more complex than the one in my 540 (E34).

Anyway, good luck with the conversion!

Best Regards,
Steve

[koenig d]

Not sure i understand you, but! The LSX in my hands is capable of over 2,000Hp, It will fit! It's reliable and to put it in the car is not complicated, You can upgrade the steering to a rack easily while in there, The only complications you'll run into would be, Deciding on how many ponies and $$$ that can be allocated to the project.
2000HP UNDRIVEABLE I went for a test drive of the new m6 on saturday 500+hp. with traction control switched off this car is a lethal weapon, in fact with traction control off your dead it spun the wheels in all 7 gears and powered to 160 in a blink of an eye.
to date the fastest bmw in the world m6 hurricane.
http://www.uzood.com/video/5960/G-Power-BMW-M6-Top-Speed-372-Kph-from-Abu-Dhabi-Motors

[Hobz]

LS-Generation engines from GM. LS2, LS3, LS4, LS6 (That's the one you need to cram in there - with a supercharger if you can)

You forgot the LS9 :) The crate engine is only $22k :D

Or you can always wait until some poor schmuck totals his ZR1 :( Its bound to happen so I wonder how much that will go on ebay for :)

[8eights]

2000HP UNDRIVEABLEI was just stating what the Lsx is capable of.

[koenig d]

I was just stating what the Lsx is capable of.
I understand that but with 1000 hp it's still going to be a dragster,A straight line balistic misile, Take 6 pistons out of the Lsx detune it ,500hp easy to achive ,almost driveable, and cheaper!. Do Lsx make a 12;)

[Leo540i]

I want to see the end results. I am considering doing a similar project :)

[TxGR8White]

I understand that but with 1000 hp it's still going to be a dragster,A straight line balistic misile, Take 6 pistons out of the Lsx detune it ,500hp easy to achive ,almost driveable, and cheaper!. Do Lsx make a 12;)

Missing the point here: the LS family of engines as produced by General Motors are small-block V8's. If you take 6 pistons out, you would be left with a 2-cylinder (much like a Harley Davidson)....

[1chiban]

+1 ^^ lol.

[THEhomelessONE]

Well it's almost been 4 months! Hows the project going? (This thread is worth reviving.)

[Zonyx]

You can always contact Mark at High performance Salvage in San Antonio he sells complete LS engines and Trans out of camaros, firebirds, corvettes and GTO's..a very decent and fair individual....that is if you have not already purchased etc.

Zon

[nukeduster]

Yea, I'm interested to see how this one is going too.

My mechanic is debating buying an e31 after having talked to him yesterday, and dropping a 454 into one. He used my car while doing the 6 speed swap to take measurements I guess.

Hope he ends up doing it.

[Zack01GC]

This would be awesome if you did it. The aftermarket for LSx is MASSIVE. Besides, I was thinking about doing a similar swap to my E24. But as soon as I think of the wiring involved, I just want to gag.

[THEhomelessONE]

I'll sell my 850ci to my dad and find a blown 840i for cheap and do a swap, found an ls1 with a t56 for $4k. I read through 8 pages in another thread all leading to nothing :(
I can't find anything, I read someone did a ls swap in an e31 that was in a magazine but I can't find that either. Damn, I live in CA so I'd have to keep the motor as stock as possible, and the motor has to be newer than the car with the same emission components as the car it came off of.

[IcemanBHE]

Zack. Those E38 750 turbine wheels look good on your Shark. :)

Back to topic....I want to see this as well. :)

[Hobz]

I'll sell my 850ci to my dad and find a blown 840i for cheap and do a swap, found an ls1 with a t56 for $4k. I read through 8 pages in another thread all leading to nothing :(
I can't find anything, I read someone did a ls swap in an e31 that was in a magazine but I can't find that either. Damn, I live in CA so I'd have to keep the motor as stock as possible, and the motor has to be newer than the car with the same emission components as the car it came off of.

When I was on the V8 Rx7 scene that was a real pain for the CA swappers and was a fair amount of extra work unless you had connections.

In Michigan where I had mine pretty much anything was legal on the roads :) A guy at the track once had a homebuilt, street legal tube chassis around a corvette drivetrain. The handcrank window wipers were especially funny. The thing looked mean as hell though.

[paulmer]

I have one thing to say: LS9

[THEhomelessONE]

I have one thing to say: LS9
Just twin turbo an LS1 :D

[IcemanBHE]

pppfftt KB hemi with 14/71 SC fuelie. Why stop short?

[THEhomelessONE]

psh lol look at the 632ci world motors 800hp "street motor" on jegs, 800 horses on 87 octane haha. slap a roots blower and you got 1500hp on 91 octane. 54498498416519846548 ft'lbs tq.

Do you think the handling on the 8er would be worse if there was too much weight off the front end?

[nukeduster]

psh lol look at the 632ci world motors 800hp "street motor" on jegs, 800 horses on 87 octane haha. slap a roots blower and you got 1500hp on 91 octane. 54498498416519846548 ft'lbs tq.

Do you think the handling on the 8er would be worse if there was too much weight off the front end?

Couldnt weight more then a m70 honestly, thats a heavy beast.

[THEhomelessONE]

Oh I meant the ls motor lol, isn't it like 280lbs lighter than the m70?

[paulmer]

Couldnt weight more then a m70 honestly, thats a heavy beast.You're wrong. The M70 weighs about 340 pounds

Most crate big blocks, however, weigh over 500. I've heard that the 572 block weighs north of 700

[nukeduster]

You're wrong. The M70 weighs about 340 pounds

Most crate big blocks, however, weigh over 500. I've heard that the 572 block weighs north of 700

I dont get why do the 850's vs the 840's weighs over 100lbs more then, when the m60 engine weighs 144kg, and has a MUCH heavier transmission to haul then the 850 does.

Weird.

[paulmer]

Really? I haven't seen a weigh comparison between the 4 and 5 speed slushboxes