RahgBag
12-31-2008, 12:53 AM
Caution, long post ahead.
If you are only interested on how the Getrag 260 fits onto the M50 in an e36, click here:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1147312
Part 1: The Background Story
When I was 16, my parents bought me my 325i. I was so happy with it. Took great care of it, washed it weekly, did all my own regular maintenance, etc. However, once I got used to driving and more interested in performance, I wanted something more, specifically a manual transmission. I had learned to drive on a manual, and had become fairly proficient, but my mom thought that if they bought me a manual BMW I would toast tires and clutches and probably kill myself in the process. In retrospect, they were right. It was good to become good at driving for a few years before I got too stupid.
Part 2: The Ideas and Reasons
About a year after I got my car I was already gathering information and ideas on how to do the 5 speed swap. This forum was full of stories and information on how to do the swap, but I knew I would be operating on a limited budget, and it had to work, since this was my DD and if I screwed it up there was no way my parents were going to buy me a new car.
First I started collecting the small items: The shift knob and boot, the pedal assembly, the special tools I would need, etc.
Also I started looking into locations and times that would be good for me to work in. I am mechanically inclined, but prior to the swap, the most difficult car project I had tackled was changing my water pump.
I did a lot of research, and as I was about to purchase some of the larger parts, I got a huge stroke of luck. I was helping my friend clean out his storage space and found a Getrag 260. The Getrag 260 is from e30 6 cylinders. The e36 used the 250. I chose to try and use the 260 because its 5th gear ratio is .83, a true overdrive. The 250's is 1. With my 3.91 differential and 1.0 ratio, I'd be doing 4500 RPM on the highway. With the 3.91 and the .83, I'm doing more like 3200. I contacted the previous owner of the transmission and he assured me that the box was in good condition and had no issues. With my new transmission at hand, I started researching ways to fit this box to the e36, but found very little solid information. The following list of parts WILL work, and does in my e36.
BMW M50 Engine
Getrag 260 Manual Transmission, part number 260.0.1346.90
Manual Driveshaft from the e36
Manual Flex Disc from the e36
Differential from the e36, ratio 3.91; limited slip
Dual Mass Flywheel from the e36 and new bolts
Clutch kit and Pressure Plate from the e36
Pilot bearing and throwout bearing from the e36
Clutch Fork, pivot pin and Clutch slave cylinder from e30
Pedal box from any manual e36
Clutch master cylinder from the manual e36
Brake light switch from the automatic e36 (clutch switch is unnecessary)
Selector rod and carrier from manual non-M e36
Shift lever from E36 M3, turned backwards
E36 reverse light switch
As was previously mentioned I was trying to do this on a slim budget, so here is a list of what I think is ok to get used and what you need to get new.
Ok to get used:
Pedals
Knob
Boot
Shift Linkage Parts
Driveshaft
Differential
Transmission
These parts are ok to get used because unless they have been severely abused, their lifetime is virtually unlimited. Make sure that you buy from a reputable person who is honest about the condition of their used parts. Getting scammed sucks.
Advisable to get New:
ALL HARDWARE, BUSHINGS, AND MOUNTS
Clutch kit
Flywheel
Clutch Hydraulics (master, slave, and lines)
Flex Disc
These parts should be purchased new because they wear out and are a general pain to replace if you put in old parts that die shortly after you complete the swap. I used all caps on the hardware because it is a HUGE pain to have to order things from the dealership as you break them or lose them. I had to delay the completion of my swap by 6 days so the dealership could get me 2 new Torx bolts.
After I collected all the parts, I stumbled upon another stroke of luck. The father of a kid I grew up with owned a clutch shop and distributing business in my hometown. He told me that I could do the swap in his extra garage at my leisure and that he would help me out in his spare time. His experience proved to be valuable, especially when installing the transmission.
So, with all (at least I thought all) the parts amassed, I drove the trusty e36 up to the shop and began ripping her apart.
Part 3: The Swap
There are several good DIY articles on how to do the Auto -> Manual swap, so I won't get too in-depth here. I have linked to a few of them at the end of the article if you're interested.
The swap went fairly smooth, with the exception of a few parts. Following are the rough spots I hit, in addition are a few notes that I found pertinent.
1) I broke 2 exhaust manifold bolts. Should have sprayed them with PB Blaster first. Make sure you do that before you start, it makes the bolts much easier.
2) I didn't have the clutch dish aligned 100% straight. Thus the transmission wouldn't go in all the way. I had to pull everything out and re-align it. Make sure that you alignment tool slides in and out easily with no force required.
3) The Getrag 260 sits about 10 degrees to the right of where the 250 would. This requires a fabricated transmission brace and shift linkage. This might sound like a daunting task, but it is really quite easy. All you have to do for the brace is get a block of metal and drill two holes in it where the bolts should go. Then pick up some longer bolts and you're done! The linkage requires access to a torch and vise. You're going to have to twist the selector rod about 10 degrees counter-clockwise so that it will sit straight. However, if you do this, the tranny won't go into second or fourth gear. To correct, you should also bend the shift carrier, though not as much, maybe 5-7 degrees.
4) The output shaft of the Getrag 260 uses 17mm bolts, the e36 flex disc uses 18mm. Ok, I admit it, I ghetto rigged this one bad. I put the bolts through both the flex disc and the output shaft holes, then stuffed the space full with bits of metal. Then I tightened the bolts down. There was no play in the bolts and as far as I can tell the car drives fine, so I'm not complaining.
5) Running the hard line from the master cylinder to the slave is a royal bitch. I ended up (with my Mom's help, haha) fishing a wire down from the hole in the firewall, attaching the hard line to the wire, then pulling it up inch by inch so that it went where it need to go.
6) Bleeding the slave is easy, you don't need to remove it. Just open the valve, press the pedal to the floor and hold it there, then close the valve. Then you can release the pedal. It's helpful to have 3 people for this. One to open/close the valve, one to operate the pedal, and one to check the fluid level and top it off as needed.
7) MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ALL NEW HARDWARE! Not all the holes on the 260 line up with the engine block of the M50. The fat (M10) Torx bolts on the sides and top will line up, as do both starter bolts. Be advised, the side bolts are longer for the 260 than on the GM automatic. You need 2 M10x75 torx bolts for these. As best as I can tell, the only place to get them is from the dealership. Just order them in advance and be done with it.
7) The wiring is simple. Use your automatic brake switch, and don't even bother with a clutch switch. Just don't start the car without the clutch pedal to the floor ;). Anyway, bridge pins #5 and 7 on the automatic harness that connects to the shifter. That lets the car start. For the reverse lights clip wires #2 and 3 from the same harness and solder about 3 feet worth of extension wire onto them. Then clip the old reverse light switch connector from the automatic wiring loom, expose the wires, and connect the positive to the negative on each. Plug the harness you just made into the switch on the side of the tranny and you're done! I haven't worked out how to wire the cruise control yet, but I'll update this thread when I do.
Part 4: Advice, Resources and Information
The swap is not very difficult mechanically, it just requires patience, logic, and a few well-placed swear words. Make sure that you research everything thoroughly before you start and do everything in a methodical manner. It helps a lot to have a place where you can leave the car for a few days and do it at a slower pace. Trying to go fast just messes things up.
Here are a few links to useful pages. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
E30 Transmission info:
http://www.pro3-racing.com/?q=node/11
Where I got my clutch/flywheel:
http://carolinaclutch.com/
I got my other parts here:
www.pelicanparts.com (http://www.pelicanparts.com)
This site is great for diagrams and BMW part numbers:
www.realoem.com (http://www.realoem.com)
There is some information here about Getrag 260/M50 combos:
www.r3vlimited.com (http://www.r3vlimited.com)
This is a spreadsheet that will calculate RPMs and Speeds with various gear ratios and transmissions:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/...ll%20Trans.xls
E36 Bentley Manual online:
http://www.thetweakingzone.com/pics/...al_Bentley.zip
Swap DIY Articles:
http://e36-tech.com/DIY/
http://bmw.monkeysuncle.net/e36tranconv.htm
http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/gentile/5spdswap
If you are only interested on how the Getrag 260 fits onto the M50 in an e36, click here:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1147312
Part 1: The Background Story
When I was 16, my parents bought me my 325i. I was so happy with it. Took great care of it, washed it weekly, did all my own regular maintenance, etc. However, once I got used to driving and more interested in performance, I wanted something more, specifically a manual transmission. I had learned to drive on a manual, and had become fairly proficient, but my mom thought that if they bought me a manual BMW I would toast tires and clutches and probably kill myself in the process. In retrospect, they were right. It was good to become good at driving for a few years before I got too stupid.
Part 2: The Ideas and Reasons
About a year after I got my car I was already gathering information and ideas on how to do the 5 speed swap. This forum was full of stories and information on how to do the swap, but I knew I would be operating on a limited budget, and it had to work, since this was my DD and if I screwed it up there was no way my parents were going to buy me a new car.
First I started collecting the small items: The shift knob and boot, the pedal assembly, the special tools I would need, etc.
Also I started looking into locations and times that would be good for me to work in. I am mechanically inclined, but prior to the swap, the most difficult car project I had tackled was changing my water pump.
I did a lot of research, and as I was about to purchase some of the larger parts, I got a huge stroke of luck. I was helping my friend clean out his storage space and found a Getrag 260. The Getrag 260 is from e30 6 cylinders. The e36 used the 250. I chose to try and use the 260 because its 5th gear ratio is .83, a true overdrive. The 250's is 1. With my 3.91 differential and 1.0 ratio, I'd be doing 4500 RPM on the highway. With the 3.91 and the .83, I'm doing more like 3200. I contacted the previous owner of the transmission and he assured me that the box was in good condition and had no issues. With my new transmission at hand, I started researching ways to fit this box to the e36, but found very little solid information. The following list of parts WILL work, and does in my e36.
BMW M50 Engine
Getrag 260 Manual Transmission, part number 260.0.1346.90
Manual Driveshaft from the e36
Manual Flex Disc from the e36
Differential from the e36, ratio 3.91; limited slip
Dual Mass Flywheel from the e36 and new bolts
Clutch kit and Pressure Plate from the e36
Pilot bearing and throwout bearing from the e36
Clutch Fork, pivot pin and Clutch slave cylinder from e30
Pedal box from any manual e36
Clutch master cylinder from the manual e36
Brake light switch from the automatic e36 (clutch switch is unnecessary)
Selector rod and carrier from manual non-M e36
Shift lever from E36 M3, turned backwards
E36 reverse light switch
As was previously mentioned I was trying to do this on a slim budget, so here is a list of what I think is ok to get used and what you need to get new.
Ok to get used:
Pedals
Knob
Boot
Shift Linkage Parts
Driveshaft
Differential
Transmission
These parts are ok to get used because unless they have been severely abused, their lifetime is virtually unlimited. Make sure that you buy from a reputable person who is honest about the condition of their used parts. Getting scammed sucks.
Advisable to get New:
ALL HARDWARE, BUSHINGS, AND MOUNTS
Clutch kit
Flywheel
Clutch Hydraulics (master, slave, and lines)
Flex Disc
These parts should be purchased new because they wear out and are a general pain to replace if you put in old parts that die shortly after you complete the swap. I used all caps on the hardware because it is a HUGE pain to have to order things from the dealership as you break them or lose them. I had to delay the completion of my swap by 6 days so the dealership could get me 2 new Torx bolts.
After I collected all the parts, I stumbled upon another stroke of luck. The father of a kid I grew up with owned a clutch shop and distributing business in my hometown. He told me that I could do the swap in his extra garage at my leisure and that he would help me out in his spare time. His experience proved to be valuable, especially when installing the transmission.
So, with all (at least I thought all) the parts amassed, I drove the trusty e36 up to the shop and began ripping her apart.
Part 3: The Swap
There are several good DIY articles on how to do the Auto -> Manual swap, so I won't get too in-depth here. I have linked to a few of them at the end of the article if you're interested.
The swap went fairly smooth, with the exception of a few parts. Following are the rough spots I hit, in addition are a few notes that I found pertinent.
1) I broke 2 exhaust manifold bolts. Should have sprayed them with PB Blaster first. Make sure you do that before you start, it makes the bolts much easier.
2) I didn't have the clutch dish aligned 100% straight. Thus the transmission wouldn't go in all the way. I had to pull everything out and re-align it. Make sure that you alignment tool slides in and out easily with no force required.
3) The Getrag 260 sits about 10 degrees to the right of where the 250 would. This requires a fabricated transmission brace and shift linkage. This might sound like a daunting task, but it is really quite easy. All you have to do for the brace is get a block of metal and drill two holes in it where the bolts should go. Then pick up some longer bolts and you're done! The linkage requires access to a torch and vise. You're going to have to twist the selector rod about 10 degrees counter-clockwise so that it will sit straight. However, if you do this, the tranny won't go into second or fourth gear. To correct, you should also bend the shift carrier, though not as much, maybe 5-7 degrees.
4) The output shaft of the Getrag 260 uses 17mm bolts, the e36 flex disc uses 18mm. Ok, I admit it, I ghetto rigged this one bad. I put the bolts through both the flex disc and the output shaft holes, then stuffed the space full with bits of metal. Then I tightened the bolts down. There was no play in the bolts and as far as I can tell the car drives fine, so I'm not complaining.
5) Running the hard line from the master cylinder to the slave is a royal bitch. I ended up (with my Mom's help, haha) fishing a wire down from the hole in the firewall, attaching the hard line to the wire, then pulling it up inch by inch so that it went where it need to go.
6) Bleeding the slave is easy, you don't need to remove it. Just open the valve, press the pedal to the floor and hold it there, then close the valve. Then you can release the pedal. It's helpful to have 3 people for this. One to open/close the valve, one to operate the pedal, and one to check the fluid level and top it off as needed.
7) MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ALL NEW HARDWARE! Not all the holes on the 260 line up with the engine block of the M50. The fat (M10) Torx bolts on the sides and top will line up, as do both starter bolts. Be advised, the side bolts are longer for the 260 than on the GM automatic. You need 2 M10x75 torx bolts for these. As best as I can tell, the only place to get them is from the dealership. Just order them in advance and be done with it.
7) The wiring is simple. Use your automatic brake switch, and don't even bother with a clutch switch. Just don't start the car without the clutch pedal to the floor ;). Anyway, bridge pins #5 and 7 on the automatic harness that connects to the shifter. That lets the car start. For the reverse lights clip wires #2 and 3 from the same harness and solder about 3 feet worth of extension wire onto them. Then clip the old reverse light switch connector from the automatic wiring loom, expose the wires, and connect the positive to the negative on each. Plug the harness you just made into the switch on the side of the tranny and you're done! I haven't worked out how to wire the cruise control yet, but I'll update this thread when I do.
Part 4: Advice, Resources and Information
The swap is not very difficult mechanically, it just requires patience, logic, and a few well-placed swear words. Make sure that you research everything thoroughly before you start and do everything in a methodical manner. It helps a lot to have a place where you can leave the car for a few days and do it at a slower pace. Trying to go fast just messes things up.
Here are a few links to useful pages. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
E30 Transmission info:
http://www.pro3-racing.com/?q=node/11
Where I got my clutch/flywheel:
http://carolinaclutch.com/
I got my other parts here:
www.pelicanparts.com (http://www.pelicanparts.com)
This site is great for diagrams and BMW part numbers:
www.realoem.com (http://www.realoem.com)
There is some information here about Getrag 260/M50 combos:
www.r3vlimited.com (http://www.r3vlimited.com)
This is a spreadsheet that will calculate RPMs and Speeds with various gear ratios and transmissions:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/...ll%20Trans.xls
E36 Bentley Manual online:
http://www.thetweakingzone.com/pics/...al_Bentley.zip
Swap DIY Articles:
http://e36-tech.com/DIY/
http://bmw.monkeysuncle.net/e36tranconv.htm
http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/gentile/5spdswap