Finally a decent street pad

[frayed]

I posted this elsewhere while bf.c was down. Just wanted to clear the air on the Axxis pads after I was initially dissappointed, and stated such in a prior thread on this board.

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Like everyone, I want a set of street pads that do everything that OE pads do well, but don't do anything bad. Here's what I went through:

1. Stock: Great initial bite. Decent braking power once on the pedal. Can be tricky to modulate at low speeds, however. The dusting is horrible, and always squeaked no matter what I did to them (chamfered edges, CRC brake goop, BMW brake goop). I got tired of cleaning my wheels every three days.

2. Rotex: Virtually dust free. However these brake pads don't brake. Initial bite and braking tq horrible.

3. Hawk HPS: I went with these after many folks recommended them. They offer better than stock braking tq once you have heat in them and after you are on the pedal. However, when cold, they don't work so well. In addition, hot or cold, they didn't have anywhere the initial bite of stock. On the plus side, they do not dust, almost dust free, and were pretty quiet after broken in. I used these for 6 mos, including a few days on the track.

Basically, after driving a buddy's stock M3, I wanted that braking action back, but not the dust and noise. I was reminded just how good stock pads were on the street. So, I went with another pad:

4. Axxis Ultimate from www.cobaltfriction.com: I picked these up from Andie Lin, the owner of the company. At first I was underwhelmed. Felt like HPS pads, but with better braking power but only marginally better initial bite than the HPS pads. Better, but not ideal. I was running virgin rotors, so I thought I'd keep running them to see what happened.

3 weeks later, they now rock. I'd say 50% of the OE dust levels (but more than HPS), with pretty darn close to the initial bite of OE, but with noticably better braking tq once into the pedal. I did back to back testing against a friend's stock M3 to confirm. They are also silent.

Oh, and relatively inexpensive too. . . 75 for the fronts, 50 rear, and Andie hooks up board members with a discount.

Today, I drove a friend's M3 with Hawk HP+ pads, which is a more aggressive pad than the street-only HPS pads. I'd say that the Axxis pads felt just as good, maybe a little better cold. And, they are cheaper and dust considerably less.

Overall, I'd say a winnner, and I'm a pretty picky consumer.

Just thought I'd pass the info along.

Notes: The Axxis Ultimates should not be confused with the Axxis Deluxe's, which are a sub-par pad. If you want less dust than the Ultimates, the Ferodo DS2500's should offer about the same level of performance as the Ultimates, but at a higher cost. Andie says about 25% of the dust as OE pads, as opposed to 50% from the Ultimates.

I'm still sorting out my track pad situation, but I'll report back after my next event on that subject.

[Hellrot Sachin]

Jeff - as always, thanks for the thorough research and information. I'll be upgrading/replacing my pads and rotors here pretty soon and will probably follow your lead on this.. Thanks!

HRS

[XOC]

That is good to hear. I have a set of Ultimates that were just delivered yesterday and are going to supercede the Rotexes I have on now. I also don't have much good to say about Rotex except low (not no) dust and quiet ... oh and my right leg is getting a free workout stomping on the brake pedal to get the car to stop. :

[frayed]

Sachin,

Good to hear from you. I trust all is going well with the fine young ladies down in the valley, if you are not already in sensory overload from delivering all those babies.

You'll dig the Axxis pads if you go that route. About the only knock on them is that they dust more than HPS, but handily outperform them IMHO.

XOC,

Yah, the Rotex pads were a waste of cash. Oh well.

[Hellrot Sachin]

Jeff - I'm not so sure about the "fine" ladies of the Valley, you've been down here before so I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. However, Mcallen isn't too far away .. Things here are good, although I'm on surgery these days so they're keeping me busy (playing orthopedics right now). Anyway, I'll be back in SA by August, we need to do some more runs through the hills for sure. BTW, I'm glad to hear that you still find time to play with your car and find track time, I'm jealous. Later Jeff..

BTW.. that price you quoted for those pads, was that with or without the BF discount?

HRS

[Cannon]

I use the same pads on the street and the track, with little dusting, zero fade on the toughest tracks (I mean absolutely zero), no noise (again, absolutely zero), and unbelievable hot and cold brake torque.

What are these magical pads?

Why, stock Porsche pads of course .

Chris

Sorry - couldn't resist

[frayed]

Why, stock Porsche pads of course .

LOL

[Jetfire]

Wow frayed, thanks for posting your review. Your timing couldn't be better - I'll be changing my fluid soon and want to switch pads at the same time.

[kitwetzler]

FYI, the HP+ pads eat rotors alive and dust a lot... plus they start sounding like a cement truck at around 5-7000 miles. Was most displeased with them, too.

[///M3 2 NV]

Originally posted by kitwetzler
FYI, the HP+ pads eat rotors alive and dust a lot... plus they start sounding like a cement truck at around 5-7000 miles. Was most displeased with them, too.

I disagree!

They do dust a lot, but that is their only problem. They do not eat rotors or sound like a cement truck.

I've been using them for 24K miles on the street and my rotors have also been to 12 DEs, 6 of them with racing brake pads and the rotors still look great.

Also the HP+ pads make very little noise if you use the high temp silicon from Napa.

[badmonkey]

HP+ eat rotors? I went through two sets of HP+ this year, the latest set lasted 1-1/2 track days (an easy afternoon at Buttonwillow, and a full day a Laguna Seca). All totalled, 4 sets of pads on the Motorsport rotors. Rotors are not showing any significant wear. The HP+ will squeal and dust like Pig Pen, but in my experience thus far they are very easy on rotors.

Maybe you're thinking of Hawk Blues?

[Mtrack]

What do you guys think of the pagid sport pads? They are marketed for street/club track use. They are painted blue but are not to be confused with the Pagid "blue" pads. I'm afraid to find out that they suck, because I already bought them.

[kitwetzler]

My HP+ experience was poor, ymmv. I know lots of people have squealing problems and they chewed my rotors alive. (I have a fairly short commute in the morning)

[frayed]

Originally posted by ///M3 2 NV
I disagree!

They do dust a lot, but that is their only problem. They do not eat rotors or sound like a cement truck.

I've been using them for 24K miles on the street and my rotors have also been to 12 DEs, 6 of them with racing brake pads and the rotors still look great.

Also the HP+ pads make very little noise if you use the high temp silicon from Napa.

OK, maybe not a cement truck, but certainly a school bus. Dude, your car is noisy as hell on the street. Coupled with the godawful yellow color, it looks like you are taking the 'short bus' to school.

Maybe that was before you put silicone on them.

[///M3 2 NV]

My HP+ pads make NO noise with the high temp silicon from Napa!

[M2DA3RD]

From what I've read on this and other threads, the only drawback to the stock pads is dust. True? If they stop, have the best initial bite, are easy on the rotors, and are among the cheapest they get my vote for street use. Dust? I can't see the wheels when I'm driving . . .

[///M3 2 NV]

Yes, the only real drawback to the stock pads is dust. If you do not autox or DE your car and don't care about the dust, stock pads are ok.

Like Frayed said though, the Axxis pads have very little dust and work extremely well. Check the prices and get what suits you best.

I orginally bought the HP+ pads for combination street/DE. Now I use dedicated track pads and I'm using the HP+ pads for the street until they wear out. I'll then get the Axxis pads.

[BMW325i]

I have had some Hawk HPS street pads for a few months now and for some reason, despite everyone's expereince, they squeal really bad. Not sure what happened, maybe the virgin brembo's with the new pads was a bad idea. I even used the anti squeak gel but who knows. I am pretty disappointed with them though and will definitly try axxis ultimate next time or soon if I can't stand the squeaking.

Jeffrey

[eclou]

Squeal, schmeel. I am still running on my Pagid Oranges right now since I'm too lazy to pop them out of my ridiculously easy to change 993TT calipers. Go figure. Strong enough to pop your eyeballs out AND take the clearcoat off your rims. My SHRIEKING brakes are so loud on slow stops that I purposely drag the brakes to see who I can make drop their coffee.

Eugene

[///M3 2 NV]

I agree with you Eugene! When I have my Ferrodo DS3000s on they squeal like a dieing pig and I love it. Then I stop and my lightweight flywheel rattles! I have had so many people tell me I have something wrong with my car it is amazing!

I love to tell them that those sounds are normal for a real car and not a POS like they drive!

[fourfa]

I have the pagid sports, LOVE them but can't really compare to stock pads as I replaced the worn brakes as soon as I bought the car. As much dust as OE for sure, that's about all I can say.

[document]

Now is where I say: Why the hell couldn't BMW put some real brakes on the M3? Porsche brakes embarrass our cars'... Well, not Eugene's.

[jaramill]

Originally posted by ///M3 2 NV
I disagree!

They do dust a lot, but that is their only problem. They do not eat rotors or sound like a cement truck.

I've been using them for 24K miles on the street and my rotors have also been to 12 DEs, 6 of them with racing brake pads and the rotors still look great.

Also the HP+ pads make very little noise if you use the high temp silicon from Napa.

I'm reviving this thread since there's other threads regarding pads. Hey "M3 to Envy", where can I get that silicon grease from Napa? I do heavy auto-xing and have currently Porterfield R4-S pads that squeal like a pig, and have the M3 euro-floating rotors. So do you recommend the Hawk HP+ pads for aggressive street driving and just heavy auto-x? Or would the Hawk HPS pads be fine?

I may be changing out my front rotors (and go with the stock ones, since the euro-floating rotors I was told are not "true" floating rotors) and getting new pads. So it's either the Hawk HPS or HP+ or try these new Axxis Ultimate pads.

Gio

[paul e]

>> Or would the Hawk HPS pads be fine?
<<

There dont seem to be alot of hps fans around here. But in general, people seem to like these pads alot. aS for me, I think that Ive never see a pad bite or grab as hard as these, once theyre good and hot..I mean jus tthe other day, I went to apply the brakes what I thought was lightly going about 30 mph, after I had stopped from speed, getting them nice and hot, and I locked them up! Just like that Now thats alot of brake trq considering how lightly I was pressing. And, all the talking Ive done about stopping from 100 mph, not once have I had any fade whatsoever.....Steering vibration, yes, but NO Fade. To me, that says these should be great autox pads. but I bet there are alot of people here who dont concur.

If you take the concensus here, gio, youll try the axxis ultimates. Nobody has said anything but raving complimetns, in practically all street to track conditions. Although most will admit they are not a true track pad.

[jaramill]

Hmmm.....I'll take a look at the Axxis pads Paul. I am now getting into heavy auto-xing (via SCCA). BMWCCA in Los Angeles don't have that many and are rebuilding their program. So I will do more research since I have plenty of time.

But yeah i do only feel the steering vibration AFTER the pads have been warmed up. But in the morning when driving to work, I tested it out and sure enough, after going fast (80mph+) and broke hard, I felt ZERO vibration.

Gio