Dissappointed With with AA and Their Installer:

[M-crazy]

I will NOT sit Quitely any Longer. I have been Very Respectful & Patient.
Its been almost 2 weeks now I have given everyone who is involved the chance to do the right thing.

As many of you may already know, since I've purchased my AA S/C kit, I already had to have my original blower replaced once. The replacement occured late Nov '03 because of what AA described as a "defect." What had happend was the blower completely seized causing the pulley bolt to snap in half. As stated previously, AA labeled the failure as a defect and they subsequently covered my expenses with regards to the new blower and labor on its removal/install.
First Incident:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...hreadid=151067

Since late November I have barely driven the car (max 400 miles). This is mostly do to the horrible winter we've had in NY thus far. The few times that I did take it out she ran perfectly.

Dyno 2 Months Later After the Install of The New Blower:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...hreadid=160913

The Saga Begins:
Tuesday January 27 '03, 3 months since having had the new blower installed & very little mileage put on, the unexpected occurs AGAIN. I'm on my way to an extremely important appointment with my wife when I begin to hear a clicking noise, my steering becomes difficult, I look down at my gauge cluster and notice my temperature has risen to H. I immediately pull over. As I'm about to shut off the engine my radiator neck explodes from the pressure spilling coolant everywhere. So I open up the hood and guess what? That's right, the NEW supercharger has seized, in exactly the same way as the original, breaking the pulley bolt and tossing the pulley to the side.

I call up Rey of AA and let him know what had just occured. I'm approximately 40 miles away from their installer so there is no way I'm going to have the car towed there. Instead, I opted to tow the car to my local mechanic. My mechanic, who has worked on other FI BMW's, dissasembles the S/C and sends it to AA as was requested of him. Unlike the first time when they labeled it a "defect" and sent me a new one, AA now says it is their installer's fault. My mechanic confirms this stating that the oil feed/drain lines were possibly reversed by the installer. I felt relieved thinking that since I had taken the S/C to be installed, at the request of Karl/Rey/AA, to their recommended installer who they obviously confide in - that I should be covered since the failure was absolutey not my own personal fault. Logical thought process wouldn't you agree?

WRONG!!!!!!!

AA points the finger at their installer stating that it is the installers fault and they are sending me an indepth analysis on their investigation and they cannot help me any further. They tell me I have to deal directly with the installer who is an "OFFICIAL AA INSTALLER". This is where I feel I am not being treated fairly. I purchased a product from AA and had it installed by their certified installer. I've done everything by the book yet the supercharger has failed twice and despite claims of reliability I have been incredibly inconvenienced. Why should I have to deal with their installer? Why don't they deal with their installer? If they were more professional about it, and exercised better customer care, they would send me a new charger and resolve whatever monetary issues they have with their installers themselves. This should have nothing to do with me, am I right? The debate is not who's fault it is. And I am not Blaming one side or the Other. The problem is AA should have an agreement with their dealers/installers that if such a thing or problem occurs that they will deal with it. I shouldn't have to go run back and forth calling AA 30 times and calling the Installer 30 times when he is blaming AA and saying they have a faulty system and AA who is saying no the installer is the one who made the mistake. In the middle the customer gets hurt. This is an AA product and intstalling it at an Offcial AA Installer should mean that AA should deal with the whole situation. Both AA and Installer should colaborate with eachother and decide on a solution on how to fix this issue. Not tell me hey there is nothing we can do its all in the Installers fault and its in his hands & The installer shop is its own entity and we have nothing to do with them. This is poor business practice by AA. I have always heald AA in very high regards and they have totally dissappointed me. Now I am out of car and have spent a good amount of money with AA and have nothing to show for it.

[scottycs]

I think AA needs to step to the plate....

[marc1119]

As much as I want to agree with you, I see AA's point of view.I feel the liability falls in the hands of who actually installed it faulty.
A car dealer is an agent of the car manufacturer they represent. That does not mean GM will reimburse you for something a dealer did. The installer should have his own liability insurance, business license and the good sense to fix any initial and subsequent damage caused by their work. If they do not, I can see AA pulling their "authorized status" but I do not think they should have to pick up the pieces for someone else's shabby work.

I know it is totally unfortunate fot you, But I do not think it is fair for AA to have to gaurantee the work of its installers.Pulling that places authorized status should be the motivation of that place who did the work to do right by you. Otherwise consult an attorney and the BBB. I would also trash the name of the place who did the work on every forum you can find.

I wish I felt AA was responsible, I just do not see it. Good Luck however it works out for you.

[kapolani]

I believe AA should step up to the plate as well.

I've had my SC for about 6k miles now and I haven't had a single problem. I attribute this to the fact that my installer (Pro-Imports) is very competent. But, if anything were to happen, I'd expect AA/Pro-Imports to "take care" of me. My mechanic gave me a TWO year warranty on work and parts - that's what I call reassurance!

I feel AA should either A) force the installer to pay for damages or lose his vendor/installer status or B) AA should cover the expense because ultimately they are responsible for their product.

As a measure of good faith - for other potential customers - AA should IMMEDIATELY take care of this situation.

my 2 cents..

[CDCJON551]

I told you all, AA has problems and no one believed me. AA should definetely do something about this because if they still want to be in business then they need to fix their issues.

[M3TurboCa]

Hmmm that is a hard question.

If I was to install a product from a customer that caused it to fail becuase I did it wrong then it is my responsibilty no one else.

The installer is at fault and he should make the necessary work needed to get it fix asap.

AA should call them and explain it is there responsibilty to pick up the cost.

[kapolani]

Don't get me wrong AA has always been there to handle my questions and needs.

I just feel they should be making sure their authorized installer is taking care of his customers.

[RyanC]

I'd agree with Marco. They replaced one blower gratis, assuming it was defective, but based on your installer, it sounds like he could have installed it wrong in the first place. Your installer is responsible for messing up your car by doing the install wrong, if he can't or won't own up to that it's his fault, not Actives. You ask why you should have to deal with their installer. Well, YOU chose to use them, you could have gone elsewhere or done it yourself. Being in the service side of business myself, if I make a mistake that corrupts a customer's business critical data, I am on the hook for it, not the vendor who's product I might be using at the time. Sounds like you really ought to be pissed at the installer and not AA.

[DSK M3/4]

i think he said he took the car to a mechanic of AA's choosing.

[marc1119]

I think if AA really wanted to do "excellent service" since it was a re-install of an already defective unit, maybe they could provide you with the proper repairs paid by them and they could "chase" the butchers that screwed it up on you, on their own.

I still do not think they are obligated to do this but given the circumstances, they should either compel the idiots that did it or pick up the tab for your repairs AND probaly throw some goodwill parts in for your troubles.

That is what I would do to promote good business, I am just not sure the Hugh's are that smart when it comes to treating customers right.

[Shuasha]

This should be treated like a dealership. My friend had a Mazda a while back that he bought from a Mazda dealership. A year after he bought it, he took it in to get some paint chips fixed. When he got it back, it looked like they repainted the entire hood, badly. After a lot of yelling at the dealership, he ended up going to Mazda corporate. After a few weeks of constantly calling them, they made the dealership pay to get the hood repainted by a very good paint shop. A few weeks later, they were no longer a Mazda dealership, just used cars.

AA is not responsible for the installer, but they should be more careful of who they sell their parts through and "Certify". Maybe they can refuse selling parts through this shop, and take away their certified status.

[BeRzErKaS]

Originally posted by M-crazy

AA points the finger at their installer stating that it is the installers fault and they are sending me an indepth analysis on their investigation and they cannot help me any further. They tell me I have to deal directly with the installer who is an "OFFICIAL AA INSTALLER". This is where I feel I am not being treated fairly. I purchased a product from AA and had it installed by their certified installer.

That part right there is key. If AA really has "official certified installers" then it seems like they should be dealing with this. If your installers don't infact know how to properly install your products then WHY ARE THEY CERTIFIED?

The majority of the blame certainly belongs to the shop but AA and their shoddy certification standards aren't without blame. They should be keeping on top of such things. And if an install is done incorrectly, and they are losing money replacing parts, then perhaps they should personally be taking issue with their "certified installers."

Good Luck in getting this all worked out.

[M-crazy]

I am only saing that AA is the one that recomended me to go to that perticular installer/shop and I did. Only Beacuse this shop is their "Officiall Delear and Insyaller" not because the shop said that becasue AA told me that. So If AA deals with business who are suppose to be reflections of their work. They have a responsibility of making sure these shops have the proper knowledge and training of their products and have aggrement with each dealer and shop to say that if there is a mistake that the shop makes they will be held responsible. But go back and forth blaming each other. BTW as per what AA has told me the Lines were installer correctly the first time when the blower was defective.

[ScCab]

Originally posted by M-crazy
I am only saing that AA is the one that recomended me to go to that perticular installer/shop and I did. Only Beacuse this shop is their "Officiall Delear and Insyaller" not because the shop said that becasue AA told me that. So If AA deals with business who are suppose to be reflections of their work. They have a responsibility of making sure these shops have the proper knowledge and training of their products and have aggrement with each dealer and shop to say that if there is a mistake that the shop makes they will be held responsible. But go back and forth blaming each other. BTW as per what AA has told me the Lines were installer correctly the first time when the blower was defective.

man that sucks a$$ big time. I hope someone takes responsibilty for it. but I would go after the installer since he put it in

hope it works out for you...

[NickG]

I think Berzerkas has a very valid point. If the installer was a 'certified AA installer', then AA should stand behind any and all work done. Sure, they may not be directly responsible for the shoddy install, but they chose to 'certify' this installer. So in essence, they are partly to blame. If they don't back up the shop's work, then what's the point of having certified installers?

In my opinion, AA should take whatever steps necessary to fix the customer's car. Then, if they deem the 'certified' installer was at fault, take it out of the installer's profits.

Originally posted by BeRzErKaS
That part right there is key. If AA really has "official certified installers" then it seems like they should be dealing with this. If your installers don't infact know how to properly install your products then WHY ARE THEY CERTIFIED?

The majority of the blame certainly belongs to the shop but AA and their shoddy certification standards aren't without blame. They should be keeping on top of such things. And if an install is done incorrectly, and they are losing money replacing parts, then perhaps they should personally be taking issue with their "certified installers."

Good Luck in getting this all worked out.

[marc1119]

Ok I see you guys point. You may be right. Only because of the word "certified" though. But I guess that word means alot in this context. I concede.

[bimmerpwr]

Something like this can't be good for publicity right before AA's big release of S54 SC. I think the blame falls on both of them, installer and AA for something like this. Since the installer is not revealed here, AA is basically taking the hit. For this reason, I would assume AA will eventually have to step up and take care of this.

Good luck!

[JLee]

absolutely AA should take responsibility.

When I was shopping around for my kit, AA actually told me (and I think I have the email) that during our negotiations they had authorized someone in my area to be an authorized dealer and that they no longer were able to sell directly to me because they had setup this dealer and went one step further to say that since I lived in Maryland if I wanted this kit, I had to purchase it from them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very very very happy that I chose an AA Authorized Installer because I had problems and they worked through it. But I paid a premium for the install to have it done at an AA shop...well worth every dime and I would do it again.

But if they are going to endorse these installers and steer business their way, they have to stand behind it. If the installer won't fix the issue they should cancel their agreement and send the customer elsewhere and take care of it.

Go check their websites, certain places are listed as "Installers"

Jeff

[JLee]

Your telling me, that if I go to my local BMW dealership and get my oil changed, and they forget to screw the cap, yeah the dealer is responsible, but that ultimately if they didn't pony up, you wouldn't hold BMW NA responsible ?

Thats total bull...

Jeff

Originally posted by marc1119
As much as I want to agree with you, I see AA's point of view.I feel the liability falls in the hands of who actually installed it faulty.
A car dealer is an agent of the car manufacturer they represent. That does not mean GM will reimburse you for something a dealer did. The installer should have his own liability insurance, business license and the good sense to fix any initial and subsequent damage caused by their work. If they do not, I can see AA pulling their "authorized status" but I do not think they should have to pick up the pieces for someone else's shabby work.

[96INFMSM3]

I've had problems with my AA/SC for over 2 months now. It has been in and out of the installer's (yes, a certified installer) shop and although little by little it has been running better, it still continues to stall on occasion and idle roughly.

It also makes an odd clicking noise at idle sometimes and it sounds like it's coming from the intake manifold

I've called AA about it. They've suggested:
a compression test (which I did - there was approx 190psi +or- 3 psi in each cylinder - that's good compression),

to checking for vacuum leaks (which my mechanic has done several times, but to no avail),

check to see if the intercooler was installed backwards (which was checked and it wasn't installed backwards)

replace fuel filter - done

replace spark plugs - done

in addition to all this I have changed the clutch and flywheel to the M5 clutch and UUC Stage 2 LTW flywheel. (which I know is unrelated to the way the car runs as far as the engine goes)

I asked if it could possibly be the software and they adamantly deny that it could be their software. At this point I'm thinking this may be the case even if they don't want to believe it.
After all of this,

the car still dips below 250-500rpm on occasion,

sounds like it's shooting a flame out of the tail pipe when I shift from 1st to 2nd (usually when I'm driving conservatively),

makes an occasional clicking or cricket sounding noise, stalls at stop lights (occasionally)

and sometimes feels like the timing is being pulled when doing WOT runs (I haven't dynoed it with the new clutch/fuel filter/spark plugs so I don't know if this is true or not)

As a whole, I am frustrated, I am in a severe Love-Hate relationship with my car. I love it when I pull up to new M3s and smoke them, but I hate when I pull up to new M3s and my car stalls at the light (not due to fast drop clutch start, just idling in neutral). That's pretty embarassing. Anyways, just thought I'd post my thoughts on the whole AA/SC thing.

By the way, I must say that my mechanic/installer Jack at DA Imports in Laguna Niguel has been completely understanding during this ordeal and has not once charged me for labor when trying to make my car right for me. Also, as I understand, he has installed about 6 or 7 of these AA/SCs and mine is the only one that's had significant problems. (That sucks for me I guess). If anyone has ideas as to what these problems might be attributed to please let me know!

-Kyle

[marc1119]

That is correct. I feel BMW NA is not responsible for what a tech at a dealer does.The tech works for the dealer who has the ultimately responsibility along with their INSURANCE CARRIER. Not BMWNA.
That is not bull.
I owned a large Auto Mall with several types of repair businesses init. A large quick lube , tire shop, repair etc etc etc.

If I would have known that I was not responsible for the work I did at those multiple shops, I could have saved myself a bunch of money of insurance because I was not responsible for anything we did wrong. I could have just had my oil company or filter distributor or Pirelli or Michelin , just pick up the tab.

Doesn't that sound silly?

But that differs from the AA scenario. AA encourages or prerequisites you use these installer folks, that is why I just changed my tune, but your oil story makes no sensde at all to me.

[Jasonb1971]

Originally posted by paul e
What makes an installer a 'certified', or ' recommended' AA installer? It should be something more than a remunerative arrangement between AA and the installer. It Should imply a mutual responsibility to get it running right. And a mutual and shared obligation. Otherwise, why not just buy it from AA and have them ship it to your own damn mechanic to install if thats all the support youre going to get. If aa is going to post certified installers, then I believe they had better stand with the installer to correct any problems that arise from a faulty installation. There HAS to something 'special' about using a mfg's installer... It HAS to have some teeth, otherwise the relationship is totally meaningless.

I really gotta weigh in on Paul's side of this discussion, he nailed it.

My experience in the car parts biz is this. To become a 'certified' installer or distributor or whatever, MOST of the time all it takes is a purchasing of a large quantity of their product... period, that's it.
In AA's case I suspect that they probably make sure the shop has an ASE certified mechanic and that they purchase $10k of AA product, bingo! you're a certified AA installer.
I've never installed an AA s/c but I'm guessing that the instructions are pretty clear as to which oil line you hook up where. AA probably assumes that since they sell these kits for the DIY'er that certainly an ASE mechanic should be able to figure it out.
To the defense of the installing shop in this case, did they get to inspect the damaged s/c, or are we only going on what AA says? I'd hate my own shop here to be held accountable for such an expensive item based on the word of a supplier who admitedly supplied me with one defective part already!

Jason

[JLee]

I guess you and I are coming at it from two different angles.

Let me put it this way....in your scenario, yes, if i went to the dealer and paid to have my oil change, yes, i chose them and therefore its the dealers fault.

what i was thinking was, if i own a bmw under a bmw maintenance program, so i have to go to the dealer to get these free oil changes...then i absolutely hold bmw na responsible.

maybe, i'm coming around to your argument,

but I went to the AA website and found this, admittedly, even I haven't read their policy. My kit was sold to me as "AA warranty's the parts and we warranty the Labor" So I paid top dollar.

But this is from AAs website which I think, whether based on principal is right or wrong, it is what it is...........

"This warranty does not include the cost of removal or reinstallation of the product. No person or representative is authorize to extend any warranty and/or liability (other than expressed herein) in connection with the sale of any AA Tuning product. "

Jeff

Originally posted by marc1119
That is correct. I feel BMW NA is not responsible for what a tech at a dealer does.The tech works for the dealer who has the ultimately responsibility along with their INSURANCE CARRIER. Not BMWNA.
That is not bull.
I owned a large Auto Mall with several types of repair businesses init. A large quick lube , tire shop, repair etc etc etc.

If I would have known that I was not responsible for the work I did at those multiple shops, I could have saved myself a bunch of money of insurance because I was not responsible for anything we did wrong. I could have just had my oil company or filter distributor or Pirelli or Michelin , just pick up the tab.

Doesn't that sound silly?

But that differs from the AA scenario. AA encourages or prerequisites you use these installer folks, that is why I just changed my tune, but your oil story makes no sensde at all to me.

[bimmerpwr]

96INFMSM3 is having problems too?
:

Looks like a can of "problem that I wanted to talk about" just open up or something. Although, 96INFMSM3's problem sounds familiar with some other member here with AA SC. I seem to recall that the problem was resolved but I do not remember how...

[TheTruth]

Originally posted by NickG
In my opinion, AA should take whatever steps necessary to fix the customer's car. Then, if they deem the 'certified' installer was at fault, take it out of the installer's profits.

I agree. The customer should not have to deal with any of these issues. It should be AA's responsibility to get M-Crazy back on the road ASAP even if it is at their expense. If they feel their "certified installer" is at fault, then, they can subsequently go after the installer themselves.