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Thread: DSC & ABS dash lights turn on intermittently

  1. #1
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    DSC & ABS dash lights turn on intermittently

    I would appreciate anyone's help in diagnosing this problem!
    On my 2000 528i, both warning lights sometimes stay "on" after start up. At other times they don't, but come on when driving. Pushing the DSC button switch has no effect. This has been going on for a few weeks.

    The repair shop reported fault codes:
    131-82 Signal CAN ASC 1
    214-D6 OBD2 P0500 Road Speed

    Also, ABS DSC Fault Codes:
    41 Steering Angle implausible (1 time)
    32 Wheel speed sensor, front right signal implausible (247 times)
    No LEW codes (steering angle sensor)

    The shop suggested cause may be a control unit failure rather than a wheel speed sensor failure. Recommended swapping front wheel speed sensors side to side and recheck failure codes.
    (I haven't done this yet because of the labor quoted. Besides, I think it would be sufficient to just disconnect the right wheel speed sensor and check to see if the DSC and ABS stay always on. In this case, the sensor must be faulty, whereas the control unit is correctly reporting always a failed sensor.)

    However, when driving yesterday, for the first time both ASC & ABS came on, and both speedometer and trip odometer stopped operating (other cluster instruments were O.K.). Does this confirm that the problem is the wheel speed sensor, AND NOT THE CONTROL UNIT?

    By the way, the first time both DSC & ABS warning lights came on occurred when coming down a steep hill. A month prior to that, I hit with my passenger front wheel a plastic road construction cone which ripped the fender cone by the front wheel under the car, to which the outdoor temperature sensor is attached. I had temporarily taped this sensor to the inside of the bumper, pending repair, and it has been registering temperature normally.

    I really appreciate all the help from any expert.
    Nitsuga

  2. #2
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    1999 BMW 528i
    I have a 1999 528i and I have the same problem. I hear it's an ABS Module that has to be rebuilt.

  3. #3
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    I'm sorry to say it, but that first code, 131-82, is the kiss of death (usually) for the ABS module. It indicates a CAN bus timeout at the ASC unit, a fault which is generally caused by a non-functioning ABS module. Your sensors are likely working fine, but the module processes all of that information and if it's fried, the info never makes it past the module. If you go long enough, you'll also throw a CEL (if you haven't already), which will be a "no vehicle speed signal" code (d6 usually), which is also indicative of module failure. The fact that you have an '00 MY car with this code and non-functional gauges, plus the lights, likely means your module is toast. The ABS module failure in the '99 build-date '00 MYs is pretty high.

    You can send it to either Module Masters or BBA Reman and have them attempt to rebuild it. In the event that it can't be rebuilt, you can buy a replacement ABS Module Repair Kit (OEM) from oembimmerparts.com for $699 and have a dealer or an indy recode it. So it's either a $300 or a $950ish fix. Rebuilding is a great option, but it doesn't always work, or stay fixed. Sometimes the circuit board in the module is too damaged to fix or fix permanently.

    Feel free to PM if you need more info.

    Good luck.

  4. #4
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    what can you do if you have a 1997 and it cant be worked on?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySweitzer View Post
    what can you do if you have a 1997 and it cant be worked on?
    Do you know if it's sensors or the module/hydro unit?

    I have a hydro unit from a '97 540 that works fine.

    Edit: there's also an under-dash ABS controller unit in the '97s, I think. Have you checked that?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketwagon View Post
    Do you know if it's sensors or the module/hydro unit?

    I have a hydro unit from a '97 540 that works fine.

    Edit: there's also an under-dash ABS controller unit in the '97s, I think. Have you checked that?
    i dunno, i made a thread but didnt get much help so im gona thread jack this for sure!

    spark notes:

    Turn on car, drive, i feel the brakes engage ALL by themselves, ASC light comes on, brakes randomly engage a few more times, light stays on, brakes chill out. Repeat every time I turn on car.

    Everything else works fine (abs, speedo, odo, no other lights)

    Im so confused.

    I removed and cleaned all my wheel speed sensors, i should have checked them voltage wise but dont know how.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySweitzer View Post
    i dunno, i made a thread but didnt get much help so im gona thread jack this for sure!

    spark notes:

    Turn on car, drive, i feel the brakes engage ALL by themselves, ASC light comes on, brakes randomly engage a few more times, light stays on, brakes chill out. Repeat every time I turn on car.

    Everything else works fine (abs, speedo, odo, no other lights)

    Im so confused.

    I removed and cleaned all my wheel speed sensors, i should have checked them voltage wise but dont know how.
    That sounds to me like a control system issue...unfortunately, I don't know much about the ABS/ASC units in the '97s, except to say that depending on the build date, there are several different models of hydro/pump unit, and I *think* there is a separate ASC/DSC sensor unit as well. Sorry I can't be of more help. You might be able to identify which units and sensors you have from Realoem and then go check connections, etc.

    There is a very good write-up in the DIY section on checking the resistance in your speed sensors with a multimeter.

    Also, I assume you've eliminated the obvious things...enough brake fluid, reservoir isn't cracked or broken, there's no air getting into the system, brakes aren't exhibiting any other issues that could be indicative of a larger system failure...

    Good luck, if you need the hydro unit let me know, you can have it for free.

  8. #8
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    thats a big help thanks, im just confused how the front brakes could be applied because aren't 1997s only equipped with rear brake control for the asc?

    stupid question where is the abs module? enter the part number in real oem you say?

  9. #9
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    Here are the links for the various units...I didn't know your build date, though, so you might want to go through the process at Realoem with the actual info for your car.

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...24&hg=34&fg=20

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...23&hg=34&fg=20

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...34&hg=34&fg=20 (this is the part I have)

    Search on "brakes" and then "control systems." I actually don't know where the module is located in the '97. In the '00 it's on the passenger side right next to the strut tower.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the info "rocketwagon".
    But I am still perplexed because this morning, after starting out, the DSC & ABS lights were off , and my speedometer & odometer were working.
    This indicates an intermittence of some sort, but what "resets" all to normal after the car seats overnight?
    I also don't understands how a brake related ABS module has anything to do with affecting the speedometer/odometer.

    What is the procedure for taking the ABS module out of the car for repair?
    Do you just unscrew it? Will anything leak out of the assembly? Can you drive the car without it while waiting for the repairs?

  11. #11
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    Im having similar problems http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=988190

    in that thread rocket tells me that you can indeed drive with the module uninstalled, however you want to tape up the end that remains in the car covering it with a plastic baggy or something because it rusts really easy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitsuga View Post
    Thanks for the info "rocketwagon".
    But I am still perplexed because this morning, after starting out, the DSC & ABS lights were off , and my speedometer & odometer were working.
    This indicates an intermittence of some sort, but what "resets" all to normal after the car seats overnight?
    I also don't understands how a brake related ABS module has anything to do with affecting the speedometer/odometer.

    What is the procedure for taking the ABS module out of the car for repair?
    Do you just unscrew it? Will anything leak out of the assembly? Can you drive the car without it while waiting for the repairs?
    Nitsuga, the behavior you describe is also a common symptom of a failing module; failure is usually progressive, and sometimes everything seems to "work" but then the lights come on again. Sometimes, in the cooler air of the evening, with no heat from the engine, the circuit board in the module will "contract" enough for the contacts to work, which is what you might be seeing. Eventually, the board will spread and the module will go "out" again.

    Vehicle speed signal is processed through the ABS module as part of the ABS/DSC system's "monitoring" of the wheel systems. So if the module fails, no vehicle speed signal reaches the other computer systems which calculate speed, odometer, fuel consumption, etc.

    ABS module is located on the passenger side right near the strut tower. You simply unscrew the black part of the module from the silver hydro unit, and remove the connector at the base of the black part from the car. You slide a screwdriver into the right-hand side of the connector and pull it out like you were pulling a drawer out of a cabinet.

    Good luck!

  13. #13
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    I just re-read this and noticed that you DID get the D6 speed signal code in your initial code scan, along with the CAN timeout code. Sorry to say, but I'm 99% certain that's a module failure.

  14. #14
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    Thanks again "rocketwagon". I'll check it out.
    While the ABS module is out to be rebuilt, will this cause the speedometer, odometer, and other panel gauges to stop operating?
    Once the module is fixed, do I simply screw it in myself and restart the car, or is this a more involved procedure to be done by a repair facility?

  15. #15
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    Your speedo, odo, and fuel consumption gauges will not work while the module is out of the car; tachometer will work fine, fuel capacity gauge will be flaky (I never let it go below a 1/4 tank when I had my module out).

    If you have your module rebuilt by Module Masters or BBA Reman, you can simply install it back into the car and you're done. If you get a new module, you need to have it recoded by either a dealer or an indy; it takes 1/2 hour to recode, so an indy will charge you an hour of labor (mine did). Dealer might charge you a diagnostic fee plus the hour of labor. The dealer may also not do it for you; they'd rather sell you a $990 module AND the recode.

    Good luck!

  16. #16
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    "Rocketwagon", I will do that. Really appreciate your help very much.

  17. #17
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    "Rocketwagon" -
    You won't believe it, but my 528i was stolen just after I sent my ABS module for repair to Module Master. So, I put on hold the repair, and Module Master is asking me about returning it.
    My car has not been found, so I no longer have any use for my ABS module.
    Is this module worth anything at this point, even though it has not been repaired?
    Would it be worth for someone to buy it, and then have it fixed and recoded?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitsuga View Post
    "Rocketwagon" -
    You won't believe it, but my 528i was stolen just after I sent my ABS module for repair to Module Master. So, I put on hold the repair, and Module Master is asking me about returning it.
    My car has not been found, so I no longer have any use for my ABS module.
    Is this module worth anything at this point, even though it has not been repaired?
    Would it be worth for someone to buy it, and then have it fixed and recoded?
    Wow...that's bad news, man, sorry about your car getting stolen. However, that's probably the best ABS module fix I've ever seen. (No offense intended.)

    The short answer is yes, it would be worth someone purchasing it and having it rebuilt and recoded. However, I have no idea what you might be sell it for in that case...the lowest price you can get for the repair kit is $700, and then the recode is another $150-$200 depending on who does it. So theoretically you could sell it for $100 to someone who doesn't have a module or has a module that can't be rebuilt, and they could get it rebuilt/recoded for $500, and they'd be saving a little money. However, for the difference in price there, most people, I think, would just go with a new Repair Kit over an old module that may or may not take the rebuild.

    The alternate would be to get it rebuilt yourself, make sure it works, and then sell it on EBay for $400 and make a little money yourself. Again, the same disclaimer about people's willingness to buy a rebuilt module applies.

    I hope you find your car...if not, do let us know what you end up getting as a replacement!

  19. #19
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    Thank you so much for your insight. It looks like my situation does not look too bright. I'll call Module Master to see if my module is worth anything to them. If not, I'll just leave it with them and save the cost of the return.
    Insofar as a replacement car, I am looking seriously at a new Camry hybrid.... a compromise between comfort and fuel economy. I discarded the Prius. It has literally too thin of a skin for my taste, and safety concerns.

  20. #20
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    Same Problem, Same car. Fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySweitzer View Post
    i dunno, i made a thread but didnt get much help so im gona thread jack this for sure!

    spark notes:

    Turn on car, drive, i feel the brakes engage ALL by themselves, ASC light comes on, brakes randomly engage a few more times, light stays on, brakes chill out. Repeat every time I turn on car.

    Everything else works fine (abs, speedo, odo, no other lights)

    Im so confused.

    I removed and cleaned all my wheel speed sensors, i should have checked

    them voltage wise but dont know how.

    Hey Army,

    I have the same car (early build '97) did you discover the problem and get it resolved?

    I fixed a short in right front sensor and cleaned right rear. Light stays off but still getting intermittent activation of ABS when applying brakes.

    This car has a Bosch 5.0 module, most of the rebuilders can't fix and most think that since the brain is inside the car, it is probably not the problem.

    Fault codes: 032 front right sensor, 005 right rear sensor, 067 intermittent interference.

    Might next replace those 2 sensors.

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