What's a Point-By?

[///Madman]

Originally Posted by Evergreen Dan

Driving Event. AKA HPDE (High Performance Driving Education) event. AKA Driver's School. A high-speed on-track education driving event where you drive your own car under the supervision of an instructor.

Get thee to your local chapter's event(s).

Or a HPDE (High Performance Driving Event) put on by a non BMWCCA Driving Club. Usually we have a Novice Group in which Instruction is provided for Novice drivers that have not been cleared to drive Solo. We always have an Advanced Group that runs under Open Passing rules, a Mixed Group running under a combination of Open and Mandatory Point-bye rules and an Intermediate Group running undeer Mandatory Point-Bye rules.

[Bud Scott]

I helped jab1111 out with some information since he is one of our locals. I think we may have a budding track addict on our hands!

[Evergreen Dan]

Originally Posted by Bud Scott

I helped jab1111 out with some information since he is one of our locals. I think we may have a budding track addict on our hands!

So now he knows where the local strip clubs are?

[jab1111]

Big thanks to Bud Scott for all the info he gave me!

Looking forward to meeting some folks and getting out there this summer.

[Prima E36]

Originally Posted by Evergreen Dan

So now he knows where the local strip clubs are?

Bud, your reputation has spread to the Northeast! I'm anxiously waiting to hear your comparison of the St. Louis East Side to the Boston Combat Zone!

[TeamSlowdotOrg]

Originally Posted by Damon in STL

I think it is time to move up from the DE ranks....as I may be pushing a bit too much for the environment.

You couldn't have been in his mirrors any more than you were. What a tube. Hope somebody besides you talked to him. Someone driving an SRF that slowly should have time to look in the mirrors a LOT.

How many times have I said this? Get a license and quit masturbating.

PS: Spec Miatas are capable of high 1:11's at GIR now, and I'm the current track record holder at 1:12.017. Come get some.

[peterblais]

Originally Posted by StackTrack

I'm not sure why you don't get hassled about it, but from an organizer/steward standpoint, no matter what car you're in, or how safe the pass may end-up, you'd be black flagged in a heartbeat passing someone without a point by at most DE's here on the east coast.

Maybe you are getting passing signals and just not seeing them or something? Maybe it's open passing anyway and you don't know it?

The point-by isn't a courtesy thing, it's a safety thing.

If a group has passing rules (i.e. no passing without a point, designated zones, etc.) and you break those rules, you should be called in and it should be discussed. There are VERY good reasons in a DE setting to have those kinds of passing rules, and they are all for the safety of everyone on track. If an organization isn't enforcing their own safety rules, you shouldn't run with them.

If you don't like having to wait for a point-by, then you should find a group with more liberal passing rules.

If you can't get in those groups, for whatever reason, and you feel like someone's not letting you by in a timely fashion at a DE, then you pit, and you tell the grid marshal for the club, OR you tell the pit-out personel from the track. You don't even need to get out of the car to do that. Tell them you want some space, explain you're FASTER than some and they'll send you back out properly.

I def see your point, and agree it is a safety issue especially with the less experienced drivers IE the beginner / slow / whatever group. In my experience though the guys in the fast group especially if it is a bunch of scca guys or whatever trying to get some track time in- nobody really cares. Like I said though, if there is somebody in one of those groups that doesn't know how to use their mirrors, I usually don't wait up too long. In 3+ minutes a laps, in a 20 or 30 minute session, a couple of missed wave by spots gets annoying real quick.

Also, with MMP's 23 turns, sometimes (usually) the cornerworking is spread pretty thin so uhm.... a bit more tends to slide.

[Damon in STL]

Originally Posted by TeamSlowdotOrg

How many times have I said this? Get a license and quit masturbating.

PS: Spec Miatas are capable of high 1:11's at GIR now, and I'm the current track record holder at 1:12.017. Come get some.

Hmm....1:12's you say....from looking at my data acquisition output, that would put you in the same position as the SRF in the vid.

Damon in STL

p.s. I now have my BMW CR and NASA rookie licenses.

[sab0276]

LOL, I have a similar video of a Porsche Cayman S at Watkins Glen. I was only held up for 1.5 laps though, but my expressions where very similar to yours. You can even see me throw my hands up in the air and call the guy an F-head in the video when the expected point by never came in the Laces of the boot, LOL!

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/P...len_139547.htm


BTW, are you sure that SRF guy is aware that point by's were required? He may have thought that it was open passing and that if you wanted the pass, you would have taken it. That happened to me before (different incident).

-Scott

[5mall5nail5]

Man that was frustrating to watch!

Good demonstration of patience

[BobWright]

He doesn't drive a red Mustang SVT on other days does he ???.......

I've seen a couple Instructors that REFUSE to give a point by out there.....during their own sessions.





Soooooo....Besides showing you his own, Personal Racing flag.....




What did the Ole' Razorback Learn Ya ?

Originally Posted by jab1111

Big thanks to Bud Scott for all the info he gave me!

Looking forward to meeting some folks and getting out there this summer.

[ekdemos]

You have a lot more patients that I do. I am also a lot more vocal in the car. I believe that people just get tunnel vision, and do not check their mirrors. Does anyone use their horn or give people the high beam flash?

YouTube

YouTube

[StackTrack]

Originally Posted by ekdemos

Does anyone use their horn or give people the high beam flash?

No... that's just rude man

[snk328is]

Originally Posted by ekdemos

You have a lot more patients that I do. I am also a lot more vocal in the car. I believe that people just get tunnel vision, and do not check their mirrors. Does anyone use their horn or give people the high beam flash?

He held you up for one passing zone and let you by on the next. I understand that you're trying to keep your momentum going, but you're in a DE after all. I don't think the Porsche driver had tunnel vision, IMO.

[B.Watts]

Originally Posted by snk328is

He held you up for one passing zone and let you by on the next. I understand that you're trying to keep your momentum going, but you're in a DE after all. I don't think the Porsche driver had tunnel vision, IMO.

Agreed.

By the way, does everyone realize that this thread is over 1 year old?

[Damon in STL]

Originally Posted by B.Watts

By the way, does everyone realize that this thread is over 1 year old?

I do.

[Lateral G]

I was at Laguna on a rainy day in my E30 M3 with a group that was primarily Japanese cars. There was this one guy in a turbo something-or-other. He was one of the "hot shoes" in this group, but was completely clueless about a rain line.

I followed him for 3 full laps, just chillin near his rear bumper, resisting the urge to pass him on the outside of several corners. Normally the whole thing would have had me hot under the collar. But the format of the event gave me all the track time I could want. I suppose I could have pulled through the hot pits to get a gap, but it was just hilarious to me to be giving a thorough demonstration to their "fast" guy. Eventually he pulled in the pits to avoid being passed on track.

At the post event dinner at Tarpy's Roadhouse, the Volvo wagon guy (who was faster than most of the Miatas) and I arrived a bit late, and no-one bothered to squeeze in to make room at the big table, so we sat at a little table off to the side -- trying not to laugh too much.

After that event, my perspective changed. I really don't get too bothered about being held up anymore. But I do prefer open passing w/o point-by requirements.

[Bud Scott]

Why heckfire there Mr. Wright, I dun taut him you don't need a big HP unit to go fast!

[Tipstall]

Originally Posted by ekdemos

You have a lot more patients that I do. I am also a lot more vocal in the car. I believe that people just get tunnel vision, and do not check their mirrors. Does anyone use their horn or give people the high beam flash?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eiTJ...e=channel_page

You sound like me driving in morning traffic.

[hezamhm]

Originally Posted by Damon in STL

.....and, I had no idea I had any Italian blood in the family!

I kept thinking that the whole time during the video. His hand gestures...is he italian?

[jcrist]

Originally Posted by B.Watts

Definitely not a deep pocket car...

BUT, it should be much faster than it is. Poor thing is being driven like a high horsepower, point and shoot car when it should be making huge momentum preserving arcs. Those cars have way more grip than power.

I must have missed it but I didn't see an opportunity for the author to use the right pedal at all during the entire video.

Originally Posted by StackTrack

No... that's just rude man

C'mon STACK, the headlight flash is in a driver's toolbag isn't it?!?!?!

Originally Posted by ekdemos

You have a lot more patients that I do. I am also a lot more vocal in the car. I believe that people just get tunnel vision, and do not check their mirrors. Does anyone use their horn or give people the high beam flash?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eiTJ...e=channel_page

Did anyone else hear Barney Fife in that video?

[B.Watts]

Originally Posted by jcrist

I must have missed it but I didn't see an opportunity for the author to use the right pedal at all during the entire video.

huh?

[jcrist]

Originally Posted by B.Watts

huh?

I assumed you were critiquing the author's driving with "point and shoot" as the leading car was obviously beyond critique.

[Greg S]

Originally Posted by ekdemos

Does anyone use their horn or give people the high beam flash?

Originally Posted by StackTrack

No... that's just rude man

http://www.hart-photography.com/phot...ewImage=641389

[B.Watts]

Originally Posted by jcrist

I assumed you were critiquing the author's driving with "point and shoot" as the leading car was obviously beyond critique.

...still confused.