3.0 X5 owners--we need to file class action suit!

[1986325es]

X5 3.0 owners, we need to file a class action lawsuit on this oil separator/crank vent valve issue. One dealer here had 17 instances of blown crank vent valves last winter, all 3.0 X5. When I dropped off my key this morning another X5 came in with same problem. I had it yesterday. When this thing blows and hydrolocks you may have major engine problems down the road--weakened oil rings, head gasket, O2 and CAT issues, all could show up AFTER the CPO expires.
Acura owners filed a class action over a transmission problem and Acura extended the warranty.
Any attorneys out there who can get the ball rolling?
BMWNA has to know about this problem with 3.0 X5s. They ought to redesign the crank vent valve and do a recall. That would be a helleva lot cheaper than replacing the engine.

[03X530]

Sorry to hear about your problem (just read through a few of your threads). I have seen threads with similar issues over at x5world. I would post on there regarding the class action suit as well. Good luck.

[bmWXYan]

Not sure how else to ask this. How would I go about in preventing this from happening? Is there a diagnostic that can be done?

[1986325es]

Yes, don't drive the car below 32 deg. F outside

[Critter7r]

X5 3.0 owners, we need to file a class action lawsuit on this oil separator/crank vent valve issue. One dealer here had 17 instances of blown crank vent valves last winter, all 3.0 X5. When I dropped off my key this morning another X5 came in with same problem. I had it yesterday. When this thing blows and hydrolocks you may have major engine problems down the road--weakened oil rings, head gasket, O2 and CAT issues, all could show up AFTER the CPO expires.
Acura owners filed a class action over a transmission problem and Acura extended the warranty.
Any attorneys out there who can get the ball rolling?
BMWNA has to know about this problem with 3.0 X5s. They ought to redesign the crank vent valve and do a recall. That would be a helleva lot cheaper than replacing the engine.

The valve has been redesigned. years ago.

Not sure how else to ask this. How would I go about in preventing this from happening? Is there a diagnostic that can be done?

The ambient temperature isn't the cause of the problem. The cause of the problem is not driving the vehicle for more than 30 minutes at a time.

Quick lesson: the CCV works by taking air inside the engine and separating out the oil vapor that is in that air by swirling it around (kinda like a centrifuge) inside the oil separator (or crank vent valve, or cyclone valve) and the oil sticks to the outside of the cyclone valve and drips back down into the oil pan, and the air gets sucked back up into the intake manifold.

What happens when you jump in your car and drive 4 miles to work is this: the condensation (that is inherent in raising the temperature of the oil while the metal surfaces of the engine remain relatively cool) coagulates in the oil passages. One of those passages is the tube from the cyclone separator that goes back down to the oil pan. Over time, this repeated short trip driving causes the coagulated oil and condensation to build up inside that passage that goes from the cyclone sepatator to the oil pan. Here's the important part: Since the cyclone separator drain tube is not under pressure, it's more prone to blockage by coagulated oil and water (also known as that milky whit sludge we've all seen). Here's the REALLY important part: When enough condensation gathers in the cyclone separator after the engine is shut off and the temp is below freezing - VOILA! Hydrolock cause by oil ingestion. Because instead of the oil drining back to the oil pan (the tube is frozen shut, remember?) it gets carried back into the intake manifold.

[Critter7r]

P.S. So the point is, if you go on a 30 minute freeway drive once a week, you will never have this problem. Because the oil will get hot enough to clean out the drain to the oil pan and keep it from freezing shut.

[1986325es]

Thanks for the explanation. Work is about 12 miles each way, the engine does get up to operating temp via the gauge.

[Critter7r]

Welllll..... the coolant gets up to operating temp and the enigne is probably warm enough, but to get rid of all the condensation in the oil, a longer drive is really needed.

[1986325es]

I don't disagree with your analysis, but to design a system like that is stupid. I don't know if all cars have this emission feature, I havne't heard about other manufacturers cars shitting themselves this way...can you imagine BMW telling owners to drive their cars for an hour every time? So the engine doesn't hydrolock?

[Critter7r]

Agreed. Stupid design. Elegant and concise - when it works, but when it goes bad... it goes really bad.

[1986325es]

So would the way to avoid this be to change or blow out the drain tube every fall?

[Critter7r]

So would the way to avoid this be to change or blow out the drain tube every fall?

Might not be a bad idea, but I'm pretty sure it's a bear to get to.

Frequent long-distance highway driving seems to be the preventative measure for avoiding this problem. Gets the oil hot enough to break down the sludge that builds up in the drain, carry it to the oil pan, pump it (in very small particles) through the engine so it can get caught in the filter.

[rcr2880]

I heard about this porblem but really never knew the details about it.

I live about 4 miles from my campus and drive to class many times throughout the day, and I really don't pay attention to the temp gauge. Now I'm concerned.

Any early warning signs on this?

[1986325es]

Yes, so much smoke you can't see 2 feet behind you on a sunny day.

[MrDaVinci]

The valve has been redesigned. years ago.

Yeah, I don't think that was ever an issue in X's 2003 and newer

[plik]

Might not be a bad idea, but I'm pretty sure it's a bear to get to.

Frequent long-distance highway driving seems to be the preventative measure for avoiding this problem. Gets the oil hot enough to break down the sludge that builds up in the drain, carry it to the oil pan, pump it (in very small particles) through the engine so it can get caught in the filter.

I've been lurking on this thread because E38s have a similar problem in that the diaphragm contained in the rear cover plate of the intake manifold that connects to the separator valve needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles. Although, in the M62 design, it's the diaphragm that breaks down prematurely, not the separator valve getting clogged that's usually the problem.

Critter7r, I really liked your description of the oil separation process, I never knew that.

[1986325es]

I've been lurking on this thread because E38s have a similar problem in that the diaphragm contained in the rear cover plate of the intake manifold that connects to the separator valve needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles. Although, in the M62 design, it's the diaphragm that breaks down prematurely, not the separator valve getting clogged that's usually the problem.

Critter7r, I really liked your description of the oil separation process, I never knew that.

I second that, he knows his stuff. Thank you Critter7r!

Here's the update: Yes, the oil separator valve failed. The oil went out the exhaust, into the crankcase, thats why the engine wouldn't turn after it stopped running. So much oil went in, it couldn't burn off fast enough.
The tech pulled the plugs, oil shot out, the engine turned again. The tech (who I know) said he did compression and leakdown tests, it passed both. Well, it was within spec. "spec" is not as new, hopefully is good for a lot more miles. Replaced oil separator with a part number that comes up as bad on the real OEM Web site. Hoses, etc. are insulated. New 100K plugs put in. So far, so good.
So last Friday I picked up the X5. Ran OK. Saturday a.m. backed up on first start, puddle of oil about 7 inches in diameter under the car, a few smaller puddles. Hmmmm. I looked under, the pan under the car totally saturated with oil. dripping off the pan. Checked the dipstick, oil level on the low mark (one quart low), but warning light is not on.
This was AFTER they drove it 80 miles. Smell not bad. It ran well. So, back to the dealer. On a Saturday, few techs there, the tech on hand looked under, said leave it. Monday they put dye in the oil (they said) and drove another 80 miles, said no leaking.
The oil I saw on the ground on Saturday a.m. was residual oil, they said.
I was worried tho, rear or front main? Oil pan gasket? They say no. There was a lot of pressure in the crankcase when that valve failed, I don't know how long the gaskets will last. Rear main requires transmission removal. urgh.
I picked up the car Tuesday p.m. the second time, and Wednesday a.m. saw no evidence of puddle under the car but didn't look underneath, didn't check oil, warning for oil didn't come on. Will check oil Thursday a.m. I think it's better to check when all oil goes back to pan.

End game? No service engine light yet, BUT I would NOT trust this car on a trip. I live in Pittsburgh and go to Washington, D.C. (230 miles) all the time. I will wonder about the seals, other issues. Dealers will hit me for major $$$ to repair in Washington--if it breaks down. When warranty expires in Feb. it will be a local driver, or I will dump it. Which is a real shame, 83K and I love this car, but I can't trust it. My Audi didn't give me these problems and it has 187K.
On a 1-10 scale, the techs get a 10, the car gets a 5. I say, don't buy an X5 without warranty. If you CAN work on cars, when the warranty expires keep it local because when it breaks, it will sit until you figure out what is wrong and can find cheaper parts and time to learn how to fix it. It's a shame because I really like this car, but I don't take my tools on the road.

[Critter7r]

Critter7r, I really liked your description of the oil separation process, I never knew that.

Thanks.

OP: the oil that dripped from onto the ground very well could have been "residual". A lot of oil probably came out of the engine and ran down the side of it and possibly gathered in crevices, the engine mounts and frame rails, engine cradle, etc, etc and then fell/sloshed out of the crevices when it was driven. I wouldn't write this car off just yet. I think after a month of driving it, it'll regain your confidence. And even if some oil got pushed out of say, the crank seal or rear main seal when the engine was overpressurized, it doesn't mean the seal is now bad, they are made out of rubber. But certainly keep an eye on it.

[nathan56989]

I didnb't know this happened that frequently, but I have heard about it. I'm in North Carolina so it stays kind of mild in the winter, but we have our cold spells.
The only time I have see this was two weeks ago. A tech had me come out, while he started the engine, to listen for a noise. When he cranked it the valve cover literally exploded. It blew everything from the valve cover gasket up, off the engein. The coils almost flew off the vehicle. I know it's not funny to you owners, but when something like that happens at the dealer you can't do anything but laugh.
LIKE I SAID I know it not funny to you, but it is to a tech, becasue we didn;t design the system, we just fix them WHEN they fail.

[1986325es]

It IS kinda funny when you think about it. Even funnier would it be if a piece of the blown apart valve cover went right through the tech's head!!! Now that I'd PAY to see on America's Funniest Videos. HILARIOUS! lol! Good thing they have doctors to fix stuff like that when it fails otherwise someone would be having a BAD day.

[Ben Carufel]

Even funnier would it be if a piece of the blown apart valve cover went right through the tech's head!!! Now that I'd PAY to see on America's Funniest Videos. HILARIOUS! lol!

Get a clue.

[Mad Dragon]

It IS kinda funny when you think about it. Even funnier would it be if a piece of the blown apart valve cover went right through the tech's head!!! Now that I'd PAY to see on America's Funniest Videos. HILARIOUS! lol! Good thing they have doctors to fix stuff like that when it fails otherwise someone would be having a BAD day.

You're a douchebag.

[charper140]

I had a very similar issue on my 325xi. I drive 2.5 miles to work one way and during the winter the car won't reach operating temperature at all during the week. One evening at a stoplight I noticed smoke, to my surprise it was coming from my BMW! It took me weeks of watching and looking to diagnose the oil separator and replace it. In my case the inner diaphragm had eroded (possibly from buildup of noxious vapors in the crankcase as a result of short drives) and was no longer pulling from the crankcase at idle but instead was partially pulling from the oil pan. Once I replaced the separator the problem went away. I do believe that giving your car/SUV a good heat cycle at least once a week (provided that it's regularly driven short distances) can be closely compared to preventative maintenance.

[nathan56989]

Yawn. Do a Myspace search maybe you can find out all about me and have another big expose. It'll be bigger than Brittney.

WOW.......... really........... a myspace search?

[jokermoe]

i run 26 miles each way to work. 74,ooo miles. never had an issue. sometimes you gotta runem hard and long to clean em out. regardless of the vehicle. critter thanks. but you can lead a horse to h2o but.....,