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Thread: 540I6 sounding really bad

  1. #1
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    540I6 sounding really bad

    This sound started on the way home today. Any ideas as to what could cause this? I can't see anything making contact anywhere. The revs seem to be holding longer than normal as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Xb8pgMMTI
    "All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way....Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball. Now, at last, I have found it." -- Homer Simpson

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philboski View Post
    This sound started on the way home today. Any ideas as to what could cause this? I can't see anything making contact anywhere. The revs seem to be holding longer than normal as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Xb8pgMMTI
    Some things that come to mind:

    1. Rocker arm, lifter, etc (valve train).
    2. Exhaust manifold cracked/broken, etc.
    3. Who knows what else...

    Grab a piece of rubber hose and stick it up to your ear. Hunt around for the source of the noise with the other end. See if you can narrow it down further (head, manifold, etc...).

    Good luck. Hopefully someone else has been through this and is still active on the board. Also, hope it's not too damn expensive.

    Great job posting the Youtube vid.... you'll get much more appropriate responses. I wish everyone did that!

  3. #3
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    You need to see what happens when you rev the engine, does it get louder or softer or change pitch, does it say the same, etc. this can help you narrow it down. Exhaust mainfolds will sometimes tick at Idle but the soud goes away under load, valves/rockers do not but they cycle at a speed slower than the engine(usualy about 1/2 the speed)

    if it seems 1 to 1 then is lower end or rod(which yours does not sound like) 0r is one of the rotating assemblyies ie alternator, fan etc.

    Valve train issues may result in lost compression so if the engine seems to shudder or miss that might narrow it down.

    After listening to it a couple of times my first reaction based on location would be one of the exhaust manifolds, in particular I would check the PS front corner area of the manifold with your little tube stethoscope. The noise Im hearing sounds a little like its spitting rather than a more metallic clicking, but its hard to tell. I dont know if there are any dounuts or gaskets in there. I dont see any visible vibration and I dont hear any miss or skip.

    I would look around in the vicinity of the little number 1 tag in this picture and check for a broken bolt or failed gasket. Second I would look down where the manifolds attach to the exhaust.

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...18&hg=11&fg=50

    My moneys on Exhaust leak.
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  4. #4
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    That’s sounds bad to me (but bit hard to tell not being there). Sounds like it might be piston rod related, or perhaps a rocker? Use the stethoscope technique as described above (you can use a long thin screw driver too – put the handle against your ear and the blade on the engine – try and determine if the noise is high or low on the engine – if it’s high up and in the heads might not be too serious, otherwise total rebuild IMO)

  5. #5
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    Holy crap. hat sounds like valvetrain related, at least from the video.
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  6. #6
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    I still thinking exhaust leak. It just doesn't sound like a rod. Ive blown several engines and rods sound like your hitting the engine with a Hammer. Bearings sound like you hit the engine with a much bigger hammer. This has a spit spit spit type quality that sounds like a leak. The other think is that it is quite noticeable from the side of the car and sounds different from the side, knocks tend to sound the same just quieter. As bad as it sounds you may even be able to feel the leak if you just put your hand down in that area of the engine.

    This is manifold or exhaust leak.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3inEr...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZTUI...eature=related

    This is what Rod knock sounds like.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9LJP...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMWwk...eature=related


    This is Valve Tick

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raxBc...eature=related
    Last edited by NNY528I; 11-16-2007 at 05:42 PM.
    >'97 528i, 200000 miles, Hella Xenons, 17" Stilauto wheels, Vogtland Drop Springs, Dynomax Race Muffler, Homelink, 540 brake upgrade, 15mm spacers >'65 & '74 MG Midgets BFC OT Lego Club #48 Manual conversion in process!!!



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NNY528I View Post
    I still thinking exhaust leak. It just doesn't sound like a rod. Ive blown several engines and rods sound like your hitting the engine with a Hammer. Bearings sound like you hit the engine with a much bigger hammer. This has a spit spit spit type quality that sounds like a leak. The other think is that it is quite noticeable from the side of the car and sounds different from the side, knocks tend to sound the same just quieter. As bad as it sounds you may even be able to feel the leak if you just put your hand down in that area of the engine.
    I just thought it sounded like a definite knock. Might be a small end bearing or perhaps vavle train? If it's exhaust just go to the rear of the car and plug the exhaust with a rag over your hand for a few seconds - the increased pressure will let you hear a leak straight away.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NNY528I View Post
    I still thinking exhaust leak. It just doesn't sound like a rod. Ive blown several engines and rods sound like your hitting the engine with a Hammer. Bearings sound like you hit the engine with a much bigger hammer.
    Thanks to everyone. I'll try the hose trick. I realise that it's hard to hear exactly what it sounds like through my little camera, and then the Internet, but I'll try to describe it; it sounds like someone is hitting the air intake tube in time with the engine.

    By the way, no CELs or anything, just the noise.
    "All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way....Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball. Now, at last, I have found it." -- Homer Simpson

    "Gulp! How much is this monstrosity? Eighty thousand dollars?!? I'm ruined!" -- Herb Powell, former President and CEO, Powell Motors Corp.

  9. #9
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    OK, I took a listen to the car from cold startup, with a bit of fuel hose to my ear. It is definitely passenger side front of the engine. It almost sounds like it is coming from under the air intake tube. When I ran the fuel hose down towards the exhaust manifold, there was no intensifying of the sound.

    My initial thought was that I toasted an engine mount, but no, the engine seems to be holding itself in place OK.

    I had the car running for several minutes, and it almost completely went away at one point, but then got worse as the car moved up to normal operating temperature.

    I'll be doing some calling around tomorrow, and hopefully will be towing the car to my local independent tomorrow afternoon. But please, if anyone has any ideas, keep 'em coming!
    "All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way....Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball. Now, at last, I have found it." -- Homer Simpson

    "Gulp! How much is this monstrosity? Eighty thousand dollars?!? I'm ruined!" -- Herb Powell, former President and CEO, Powell Motors Corp.

  10. #10
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    What do water pumps sound like as they fail in the v8? I've had them fail in other motors and they sound kind of like that.

    To me, it doesn't sound 'regular' enough to be a valve tappet. But also doesn't sound deep and bone crushing as rod knock.

    Fill us all in on what you find

    Good luck,
    Aaron
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philboski View Post
    OK, I took a listen to the car from cold startup, with a bit of fuel hose to my ear. It is definitely passenger side front of the engine. It almost sounds like it is coming from under the air intake tube. When I ran the fuel hose down towards the exhaust manifold, there was no intensifying of the sound.

    My initial thought was that I toasted an engine mount, but no, the engine seems to be holding itself in place OK.

    I had the car running for several minutes, and it almost completely went away at one point, but then got worse as the car moved up to normal operating temperature.

    I'll be doing some calling around tomorrow, and hopefully will be towing the car to my local independent tomorrow afternoon. But please, if anyone has any ideas, keep 'em coming!
    Maybe somehow the tube for the secondary air system that runs b/t the left and right banks got dislodged? That would be an exhaust type leak...

    The only thing that is under the air intake box is the secondary air pump and it should shut down not too long after you start the car...

    Good luck with it please let us know what you find out!
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  12. #12
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    To me is sounds like its coming from something outside the engine. like the fan blade hitting something plastic. I doubt if that sound is in the engine, either high or low. I don't hear a cracked manifold or exhaust leak either.

    I think you need to do more listening with a hose, including with the car raised and searching from below. Also, it would be worthwhile re-posting with someone hitting the gas or you pulling the throttle open (I remember seeing a cable actuated throttle in the video) as someone else suggested.

    I am hopeful this will not be an expensive fix.
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  13. #13
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    Interested to find out what the source of the problem is since it does sound horrible.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aazevedo View Post
    What do water pumps sound like as they fail in the v8? I've had them fail in other motors and they sound kind of like that.

    To me, it doesn't sound 'regular' enough to be a valve tappet. But also doesn't sound deep and bone crushing as rod knock.

    Fill us all in on what you find

    Good luck,
    Aaron
    I think it sounds like a broken water pump impeller. What's your temp gauge reading?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesdc4 View Post
    I think it sounds like a broken water pump impeller. What's your temp gauge reading?
    Temp reading is fine. The water pump doesn't look "new" by any stretch of the imagination, though. And it hasn't left the driveway (for obvious reasons) since the noise cropped up.

    It does sound to me like it is coming from outside the engine as well.

    I'll look around in daylight today to see if I can find something. It is going to my local indy ASAP though, as I need the car.
    "All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way....Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball. Now, at last, I have found it." -- Homer Simpson

    "Gulp! How much is this monstrosity? Eighty thousand dollars?!? I'm ruined!" -- Herb Powell, former President and CEO, Powell Motors Corp.

  16. #16
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    +1 for exhaust leak, either the manifold or joint leak at rear of the header.

  17. #17
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    Just took it into my mechanic's place -- he says that it sounds like it is coming from the accessory drive belt area. He will check that first by pulling the belt, and starting the motor.
    "All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way....Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball. Now, at last, I have found it." -- Homer Simpson

    "Gulp! How much is this monstrosity? Eighty thousand dollars?!? I'm ruined!" -- Herb Powell, former President and CEO, Powell Motors Corp.

  18. #18
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    Come on! The suspense is killing us!

  19. #19
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    It's killing me too! He said that he likely won't get to it until this afternoon. I'll post when I get the answer (is there a smilie for praying?)
    "All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way....Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball. Now, at last, I have found it." -- Homer Simpson

    "Gulp! How much is this monstrosity? Eighty thousand dollars?!? I'm ruined!" -- Herb Powell, former President and CEO, Powell Motors Corp.

  20. #20
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    No word. He says he'll try to get to it by the end of the day today. I was kind of expecting this, as there were a lot of of keys in front of mine.
    "All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way....Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball. Now, at last, I have found it." -- Homer Simpson

    "Gulp! How much is this monstrosity? Eighty thousand dollars?!? I'm ruined!" -- Herb Powell, former President and CEO, Powell Motors Corp.

  21. #21
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    Exhaust leak.

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  22. #22
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    Unhappy And the bad news is.......

    Cam chains. One of them, even though the tensioner is on the chain, is sitting loose. My guy says that this means one of the guides is either broken or gone, or that it simply jumped the guides. Either way, we are into some cash. Big cash. He figures 10 hours of labour (@$65 + tax) and some parts. He has advised putting new chains on after 170K, as well as some other items. I could be into $2K by the time this is done.........
    "All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way....Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball. Now, at last, I have found it." -- Homer Simpson

    "Gulp! How much is this monstrosity? Eighty thousand dollars?!? I'm ruined!" -- Herb Powell, former President and CEO, Powell Motors Corp.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philboski View Post
    Cam chains. One of them, even though the tensioner is on the chain, is sitting loose. My guy says that this means one of the guides is either broken or gone, or that it simply jumped the guides. Either way, we are into some cash. Big cash. He figures 10 hours of labour (@$65 + tax) and some parts. He has advised putting new chains on after 170K, as well as some other items. I could be into $2K by the time this is done.........
    Could've been worse. I knew that noise wasn't exhaust.

  24. #24
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    Yeah, it could have been worse. I tell myself that, had I bought it new, in the time I have owned it, It would have depreciated far more than I have spent on repairs. But, I am starting to wonder if I haven't reached the point of diminishing returns.....:
    "All my life, I have searched for a car that feels a certain way....Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball. Now, at last, I have found it." -- Homer Simpson

    "Gulp! How much is this monstrosity? Eighty thousand dollars?!? I'm ruined!" -- Herb Powell, former President and CEO, Powell Motors Corp.

  25. #25
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    I was doing a search on cam chains some time ago (when doing valve cover gaskets), and couldn't find any info on what mileage they typically should be replaced. I'm not doubting your mechanic, but does anyone know when they're supposed to be done? A chain failure and the resulting damage would be equal to a grand piano falling on my car - written off! It doesn't seem to be a discussed problem/procedure however, I doubt they last forever.

    My cam chains have "split" rollers, which I'm not sure are the original parts or not.

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