Can I Eliminate the Trans computer & display after 5 spd swap?

[attack eagle]

I know myself... Having the display constantly say "E N" (or anything else) by tricking the trans computer in to thinking it is in neutral (if I understand the below post correctly) would drive me nuts.

Can I unplug the Trans computer to eliminate the display completely and then jumper the starter relay to allow it to start?

see post below:

The 'trans program' light will go on, but the car will act fine. You simply need to ground a wire in the gear selector harness to eliminate the warning. I got these instructions from "Lowell" and they worked like a charm:

Best place to ground the CC pin is at the splice connector called X511 (black, ~ 12 pin) in front of the gear shift. Pull pin #10, I think it is, from the body side connector. Convenient place to ground it is to remove pin...#5, I think it is...from the A/M manual switch connector. I pop each end into a factory harness connector, plug them together and it looks factory.

Also: (From "X Mon")The starter relay will need to be replaced with a jumper wire from terminal #30 to terminal #87, the terminals are numbered on the underside of the existing relay. Note that the car will now start in any gear with or without the clutch pedal depressed.

[Mr Project]

Good question. Since I had a donor car, I just swapped the cluster over and didn't worry about the trans computer.

I just jumpered the starter relay and the gear selector harness, and the display wasn't an issue. A dash cluster is fairly cheap ($50 or so on ebay), so you might just go that way if you feel like being lazy.

Come to think of it...I'm not sure the clusters are any different. Maybe it will just work. I'll look at the two cars later today and see if the display is there on the 5-speed version.

[Itsnotme1988]

Is there not a bulb for the gear selection on the dash, or is it shared? That would be MUCH easier, if possible.

[jspaulding46947]

I have the same error message on my car and have been wanting to get rid of it. I'm pretty sure that the po didn't switch the cluster but there is nothing on the dash indicating what gear the auto trans is in. where would that show up? if i ever get my car back from the shop (it's been about a month since I dropped it off for a new clutch) maybe I'll have to look at it closer.

[Goathumper]

to extinguish the message after the conversion you need to ground the error signal wire that goes to the CCM.

[flipwils11]

My donor 535i 5spd had 250K so I didn't want to swap the cluster over. It still has the 525iT cluster in there, but of course it thinks its a 2.5 liter.

Luckily the guy who built the car for me is friends with another guy in the Chicago CCA who works at a dealer. I took it over there to have their diagnostic machine recode the car to get the OBC working more accurately. He did that and the mpg is more accurate, putting in a vin # from a 9/1992 535i 5spd that I found (my Touring is a 9/1992 525iT) but he couldn't get the cluster to take it. So it still displays the "S" all the time in the window on the cluster.

The next thing to try is to get the original 535i 5spd cluster (my mechanic still has it), download all the code from it into the dealer's computer, and then upload that code along with the 9/1992 vin # I found into my 525iT cluster. I know, a huge pain and not really possible for everyone unless you have a good friend working at the dealership that can duck into the shop and do this for you. I really need to buy these guys some good beer as a thank you now that I'm thinking about it.

I never heard of this other method because I just figured coding it to match the car was the best way to go.

[X Mon]

I know myself... Having the display constantly say "E N" (or anything else) by tricking the trans computer in to thinking it is in neutral (if I understand the below post correctly) would drive me nuts.

Can I unplug the Trans computer to eliminate the display completely and then jumper the starter relay to allow it to start?

see post below:

The 'trans program' light will go on, but the car will act fine. You simply need to ground a wire in the gear selector harness to eliminate the warning. I got these instructions from "Lowell" and they worked like a charm:

Step I
Best place to ground the CC pin is at the splice connector called X511 (black, ~ 12 pin) in front of the gear shift. Pull pin #10, I think it is, from the body side connector. Convenient place to ground it is to remove pin...#5, I think it is...from the A/M manual switch connector. I pop each end into a factory harness connector, plug them together and it looks factory.

Step II
Also: (From "X Mon")The starter relay will need to be replaced with a jumper wire from terminal #30 to terminal #87, the terminals are numbered on the underside of the existing relay. Note that the car will now start in any gear with or without the clutch pedal depressed.

Step III
Remove the bulb from the cluster to get rid of the E N display. (My car didn't have the on dash display when I bought it and it used to annoy the hell outta me. It was a few months till I realized it and put a bulb in).

5speed Cluster


And Auto

Original pic from here: http://www.lehrmangroup.com/rickard/airBagAndBulbs.html

One notes the that later blue backed clusters are the same with respect to the bulb for the gear selection.

On the early clusters you MAY need to OPEN the cluster halves. The bulb is then in the same location, directly to the right of the left hand locking tab. It doesn't appear to be labeled on the outside in these pictures (http://bmwe32.masscom.net/) and I don't have an early cluster handy at the moment. I can check it tonight.

[attack eagle]

OK GUYS!

good news. I pulled the Trans computer... (EGS), unplugged the A/M and gear selector switch and after doing 1 and #2... it's all good... It comes up "S blank" for about 10-15 seconds then the lights go out. this I can live with.


(Btw I simply replaced the socket side of pin 10 with a ground socket from the blue A/M switch connector. I then reconnected the 511 connector. SO 511 was on the pin side #10 grey wire as normal, but socket side #10 was a brown ground. This was easier to me than pulling them both out into a new connector as lowell suggested)

[thespeedfactory]

+10 on removing the bulb. I think that is what I will do. Gotta reserve the garage time for the important stuff...makin' powa and drinkin' beer.

[attack eagle]

UMMMM I didn't remove the bulb... don't need to anymore. It is a lot easier and faster to unplug the Trans computer than to pull the cluster.

[TouringDan]

AE, that's really odd because when I grounded out my connector, it took care of the messages and the indicator light.... Regardless, glad you got it figured out!

[attack eagle]

If i read yours correctly... you still have your tcu connected. Being a 92 with the one year only tranny... I figured

a: I hate having unused parts still mounted.

b: It was worth money

c: I wanted it out.

[Username in use]

Doing the auto to manual swap. I am trying to find the "starter immobilization relay" in my '94 Touring. I did a search here for "immobilization", "starter relay", and "interlock" with no results (I think this was a system error). I know my car must have one since there is no starter relay in the power box under the hood (apparently '94 was a changeover year for this, early had the relay in the power box, late used the immobilization relay).

The Bentley manual says it is supposed to be in the LH footwell. I found a box there with too many wires, a module of some sort, but no relay. All other wires go to junction plugs or are too numerous to be for a relay (the wiring diagram shows 4 wires connected).

Thanks to this forum I have found my Transmission Control Module, which was hidden in the RH footwell behind the sheetmetal. Any help with the latest mystery will be appreciated!

[X Mon]

K1w below. In the driver's side footwell
Maybe that helps a little more than Bentley. It sounds like you're on the right track.

[Username in use]

OK, I will look up in there for it. I take it there are more than the 4 wires shown in the schematic going to it.

EDIT
Just went out & looked/felt. I have one thing up in that area, based on the above diagram it is the K95 valve relay. I can feel the bracket, but there is nothing else there. Attached a pic, couldn't fit the camera in the opening to shoot up into the panel.

Wagons must be wired differently here also . Strike 2.

[X Mon]

It would appear that the relay has provisions in the connector for up to 8 wires based on pin assignments. Moreover, it looks like you'll want to connect a wire to PIN 5 and source it back to something hot in key position II or above. Ideally it would go back to Fuse 17, but I don't know how realistic that is.

[buldogge]

It's not actually in the footwell recess.

It is below the dash to the left of the steering column, against the upper part of the footwell panel parallel to the floor in a slip in bracket.

I believe the connector is yellow and the box/relay is black (if memory serves me).

I went thru the same thing and no one could identify the location...finally found it after poking around a bit.

Good luck...

OK, I will look up in there for it. I take it there are more than the 4 wires shown in the schematic going to it.

EDIT
Just went out & looked/felt. I have one thing up in that area, based on the above diagram it is the K95 valve relay. I can feel the bracket, but there is nothing else there. Attached a pic, couldn't fit the camera in the opening to shoot up into the panel.

Wagons must be wired differently here also . Strike 2.

[Username in use]

Thanks for the tip, but apparently not there either. I have attached another pic- all I have in that area are junction connectors- i.e. wires from one connector plug into another connector & continue, no relays or boxes there. Disregard the orange/purple/black wire connector on the left side, it was added.

EDIT
I think it will be easier to cut the starter wire at the ignition switch & add in my own relay. At least I will know where it is .

[Username in use]

It would appear that the relay has provisions in the connector for up to 8 wires based on pin assignments. Moreover, it looks like you'll want to connect a wire to PIN 5 and source it back to something hot in key position II or above. Ideally it would go back to Fuse 17, but I don't know how realistic that is.

On a semi-related issue, what if one was using a "conventional" starter with two wires (one to battery, one to relay) vs. the three wire (one to battery, one to relay, and one to OBC) setup of the BMW? Would it be possible to use the output of the OBC at pin #5? Any idea what the third wire from the OBC does? It must enable the starter somehow, but I don't know how it works or what kind of signal is output.

[Username in use]

I did some "poking around" as well, and I pulled the bracket out of the inner kick panel. I found the relay there had the same wire colors as listed for the immobilization one, so I guess this is it. I shot a couple more pics, downsized for attachments.

[X Mon]

EDIT
I think it will be easier to cut the starter wire at the ignition switch & add in my own relay. At least I will know where it is .

You'll loose the CODE function starter disable from the OBC if you do that. Of course I don't know I've used said function since I had my '84 325e...

On a semi-related issue, what if one was using a "conventional" starter with two wires (one to battery, one to relay) vs. the three wire (one to battery, one to relay, and one to OBC) setup of the BMW? Would it be possible to use the output of the OBC at pin #5? Any idea what the third wire from the OBC does? It must enable the starter somehow, but I don't know how it works or what kind of signal is output.

My best educated guess is that the OBC is simply shown tied in there because it is able to display the current voltage at position B+ in it's special functions menu. This is more or less the charging/system voltage. As it's a glorified voltmeter, I'm not sure what else you'd use it for.

More on that here: http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/obc_...c_secrets.html

[X Mon]

I did some "poking around" as well, and I pulled the bracket out of the inner kick panel. I found the relay there had the same wire colors as listed for the immobilization one, so I guess this is it. I shot a couple more pics, downsized for attachments.

Part number?

I'd say that's probably right....old part numbers won't load right now for it....
http://bmwfans.info/original/E34/tou...1/ill-61_0926/

[Username in use]

I counted 8 wires total going to this relay. Here is how they break down, as compared to the shop manual:
PIN-COLOR(S) ON CAR-FUNCTION-VARIATION
1- Not used
2- Black/Yellow- To starter, large wire- Brown/Yellow in manual
3- Green- to DME pin 66, drive-away protection, large wire
4- Brown/Orange- Ground, medium wire- Brown in manual
5- Green/Red- Power from fuse #17, medium wire
6- Black/Green- From ignition switch "start" position, large wire- Black/Yellow in manual
7- Black/Violet- ???, small wire
8- Brown/Black- From trans range switch, small wire
9- Black/Yellow- ???, small wire

Figuring this is obviously a combo relay, the large wires are routing power in & out. The large green wire @ pin 3 must be some type of power feed, although I can't find anything about it for the immobilization relay in "Power Distribution" in the manual.

I'll continue to research this & post up the results for posterity and future searches.

EDIT
I found a black wire on the "Data Link Connector" page of the manual that shows it going to pin 10 on the relay. Too bad there are only 9 pins.
Thanks for the ETM reminder- I had D/L all of these before I bought the car.

In the '94 ETM, I found the large green wire at pin 3 comes from the DME pin 66 as "drive-away protection". This must provide power to or from one side of the relay. It also answers a question about DME #66 I had a while ago. Learn something new every day.

*** Finally found the whole diagram for the relay. Stupid me, I didn't look in the "Central Locking" section. If I designed a car, that is where I would put info for the starter immobilization relay- NOT. Pic attached! I've had enough of this for one day!

[Username in use]

Part number?

I'd say that's probably right....old part numbers won't load right now for it....
http://bmwfans.info/original/E34/tou...1/ill-61_0926/

Didn't write that down, but #5 in the diagram is close. Mine has all 9 pins but only 8 wires.

[X Mon]

You realize the ETMs are online right. That way you don't need to depend on the shady Bentley wiring section...

www.bimmerboards.com E34 section, follow link