Sticky shifter on the M Coupe...Common problem?

[paulbare]

When I am bombing around town in the sweet, sweet M coupe, and am sitting at a light with the car in neutral, sometimes I play with the shifter a bit just to make sure I have it in neutral before I let the clutch out (old habbit). One thing I have noticed is when I move it from neutral over to the "no man's land" right below first gear, it just pops back to centre if I let it go. However, lately, if I do the same thing except push the shifter over to the right (below fifth - I just push it over, and instead of pushing it into 5th, i just let it pop back to centre), it sticks in the no-man's land below fifth.

Is this just due to the fact that an average drive will have far more shifts through 1-2-3 and far less up into 5th, and as such, and that side of the "H" pattern is just more worked in from use?

Thanks.

[lotusTT]

Nope, there's a pin in the transmission that isn't lubricated enough and sticks in place. There's a TSB to fix it, but it involves removing the transmission from the car.

[IslandS62]

search shift pin issue. I hear there is a fix kit now that let's you remove the pin and polish it, repairing the problem without transmission removal.

[dwm]

search shift pin issue. I hear there is a fix kit now that let's you remove the pin and polish it, repairing the problem without transmission removal.

There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of doing this repair without removing the transmission. There's a snap ring for each cap, and the caps need to be drilled and pulled out after removing the snap rings. The repair kit is lined bushings, and there's definitely no way you're getting the old bushings out or the new ones in with the transmission in place.

From doing the work on my car...

Pin coming out.



After carefully prying up the edge of old bushing to remove it.



New bushing on drift.



New bushing fully seated with drift.

[dwm]

The replacement bushings are lined with what looks like PTFE to me. The original bushings are unlined.

New bushing.

[IzzataMiata]

This "leaning shifter of Pisa" phenomenon happened to me, too.

Philosophically speaking, the bottom line here is to get the shift lever positioned correctly (the bottom lne is NOT to fix the lame factory design--that is merely one means to attain the desired end result).

[jameswbl]

hey dwm

whats it eh part number of the bushing??? thanks

[IslandS62]

Thanks for the clarification daniel. I guess I am going to continue to "live with it". I had thought I saw a post on the E36 M3 forum about repairing in place, but I guess I was mistaken.

[clintjg]

Mine hangs to the right a little....

[MMM RED]

Mine hangs to the right a little....

[dwm]

This "leaning shifter of Pisa" phenomenon happened to me, too.

Philosophically speaking, the bottom line here is to get the shift lever positioned correctly (the bottom lne is NOT to fix the lame factory design--that is merely one means to attain the desired end result).

This isn't philosophy, it's simple mechanics. The 5th and reverse locking pins are what let you feel the positions for 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear. If they both stick completely, you'll be hunting gears. Not good, and lots of complaints about that issue on the E36 cars with the same problem.

Worse is that the problem deforms the pins. Which means it could get stuck in the extended position. I could get home without 5th gear easily (I don't use it that much as is with the 3.15 final drive), but not being able to engage reverse could truly suck if you're parallel parked facing downhill.

Take note of the second paragraph... the repair kit doesn't include new locking pins, but if you're doing this work I'd highly recommend installing new pins. One of mine was clearly visibly deformed and we had to put it back in because I hadn't bought new ones.

Repair kit (bushing and sealing cap) is 23 11 7 542 726, you need two sets. Need drifts 23 4 022 and 23 4 023 to install the bushings. We used the mini slide hammer (23 0 490) to get the old caps out (and of course snap ring pliers to get the snap rings out and back in). Locking pins are 23 31 7 502 165 and 23 31 1 224 849.

It's wise to do the shift pin service action too while you have the transmission out. Same slide hammer, repair kit parts 23 11 7 525 048 (pins with bushings and springs, need 3) and 23 31 7 222 988 (sealing caps, need 3), drifts 23 3 110 (for new lined bushings) and 23 2 360 (for sealing caps).

Of course, if you're anywhere near Toledo, the easy thing is to pay Randy Forbes to do the work for you. I left him all of the tools for both.

5th and reverse locking pins service bulletin
5th and reverse locking pins instructions

catch pin service bulletin
catch pin instructions

[IzzataMiata]

This isn't philosophy, it's simple mechanics. The 5th and reverse locking pins are what let you feel the positions for 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear. If they both stick completely, you'll be hunting gears.

Don't get me wrong, you've done a great job explaining how to fix the pins.

But back to the philosophical basis of design:

For a given mechanical device to exist, there is generally an end goal in mind; the device merely provides a means to achieve that end.

The desired end in this case is to give the shift lever a nice detent, keeping it centered between 3rd and 4th gear. What goes on behind the scenes to do so (the "means" if you will) is of little concern, so long as the means works (and remains unobtrusive).

I agree that if both pins stick, then we're into a bad situation. However, I've scoured the posts on this problem, and am unable to remember finding one where the shifter did not lean right.

The lean to the right can be fixed with an external spring mechanism beneath the shift boot (lots of room down there). I've only been running mine since last winter, but so far it's worked flawlessly and has kept me from having to yank the tranny (a noble end in and of itself...).

Here's a diagram:

[dwm]

It will get worse, you just need to look at older cars with the same problem. Here's an example of a bad case from a very long thread in the E36 M3 forum.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...postcount=1028

You posted in that thread 7 months ago and said you were going to order the repair kit and do it yourself. What happened?

You can just polish (emery cloth or similar) the pin, apply anti-seize, and hope for the best. That was basically the recommendation in a Roundel article way back when (before BMW issues a TSB and made the lined bushings available). But it's a temporary fix, the long-haul fix is new bushings.
I would have agreed with the Roundel article until I saw one of my pins basically bent. The material is too thin as is. When I go in for a new clutch, I'll be doing the work again but with new pins too.

Do what you want with you car, but you won't catch me doing jalopy repairs on mine (nor recommending them to anyone else). Removing the transmission isn't very difficult when the car's on a lift, and all the work is external. The sealing caps are plastic (unlike the ones for the catch pins), and you destroy them when removing them so it's no big deal if you don't use the slide hammer tool; a screwdriver would suffice. But given the similar problem with the catch pins, the slide hammer is good to have so you can do both jobs with the transmission out. I'd call the drifts must-have tools; they're not terribly expensive and they prevent buggering of the bushings (I can't believe some people pounded them in with sockets, which deforms them ... penny-wise, dollar-stupid).

[Randy Forbes]

Don't get me wrong, you've done a great job explaining how to fix the pins.

But back to the philosophical basis of design:

For a given mechanical device to exist, there is generally an end goal in mind; the device merely provides a means to achieve that end.

The desired end in this case is to give the shift lever a nice detent, keeping it centered between 3rd and 4th gear. What goes on behind the scenes to do so (the "means" if you will) is of little concern, so long as the means works (and remains unobtrusive).

I agree that if both pins stick, then we're into a bad situation. However, I've scoured the posts on this problem, and am unable to remember finding one where the shifter did not lean right.

The lean to the right can be fixed with an external spring mechanism beneath the shift boot (lots of room down there). I've only been running mine since last winter, but so far it's worked flawlessly and has kept me from having to yank the tranny (a noble end in and of itself...).

Here's a diagram:

You really did that?

[Robstah]

Repair kit (bushing and sealing cap) is 23 11 7 542 726, you need two sets. Need drifts 23 4 022 and 23 4 023 to install the bushings. We used the mini slide hammer (23 0 490) to get the old caps out (and of course snap ring pliers to get the snap rings out and back in). Locking pins are 23 31 7 502 165 and 23 31 1 224 849.

It's wise to do the shift pin service action too while you have the transmission out. Same slide hammer, repair kit parts 23 11 7 525 048 (pins with bushings and springs, need 3) and 23 31 7 222 988 (sealing caps, need 3), drifts 23 3 110 (for new lined bushings) and 23 2 360 (for sealing caps).

Of course, if you're anywhere near Toledo, the easy thing is to pay Randy Forbes to do the work for you. I left him all of the tools for both.

5th and reverse locking pins service bulletin
5th and reverse locking pins instructions

catch pin service bulletin
catch pin instructions

Where did you get the drifts from?

Also, for the shift pin service, shouldn't the 3 sealing caps be 23 31 7 531 369, and not 23 31 7 222 988 (Service Bulletin = 23 31 1 222 988)? I can't find the 988 part number anywhere, but the 369 one looks like the caps for the set (based off of realoem).

[dwm]

Where did you get the drifts from?

Bought from BMW dealer.

Also, for the shift pin service, shouldn't the 3 sealing caps be 23 31 7 531 369, and not 23 31 7 222 988 (Service Bulletin = 23 31 1 222 988)? I can't find the 988 part number anywhere, but the 369 one looks like the caps for the set (based off of realoem).

Sealing caps are 23 31 1 222 988, superceded by 07 11 9 937 227. Ordering either of those will get you the right part.

[IzzataMiata]

You really did that?

Oh, aye.

It will get worse, you just need to look at older cars with the same problem.

Do what you want with you car, but you won't catch me doing jalopy repairs on mine (nor recommending them to anyone else). Removing the transmission isn't very difficult when the car's on a lift, and all the work is external.

I've pulled enough trannies in my day to know that this little experiment was worth a try (like I say, it works like a champ). If the other side goes out some day, I'll address it at that time.

Jalopy repairs...my, my... I suppose that goes for aftermarket camber kits, shock-tower bars, short-shift kits, etc? Or is it only because I designed and built my own... Oh well, anyway, you can be the true purist you've always dreamed of being; I'm more pragmatic than all that, especially regarding a fix that works and can't be seen (or even detected).

[dwm]

Oh, aye.



I've pulled enough trannies in my day to know that this little experiment was worth a try (like I say, it works like a champ). If the other side goes out some day, I'll address it at that time.

Jalopy repairs...my, my... I suppose that goes for aftermarket camber kits, shock-tower bars, short-shift kits, etc?

No, all of the above are on my car (camber and toe kits on rear, camber plates and strut brace on front, Randy Forbes shifter). Not to mention a lot of other modifications, several of them of my own design. But when there's a factory fix that's easy and inexpensive to do, that's what I do.

Or is it only because I designed and built my own...

It's because it took Randy and I 2 hours of actual work (and a piddly parts cost) to replace the bushings. It can be done without a lift if you have sufficient jackstands, the lift just makes it much more pleasant to do. I'd say 4 hours for 2 people to do it with a short rolling tranny jack and the car on jackstands. Clint could give an estimate on doing it alone on jackstands.

It's OK if you don't like me calling it a hack (it's not my car), but I'm still going to call it a hack.

[BabyM]

The 5th and reverse locking pins are what let you feel the positions for 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear. If they both stick completely, you'll be hunting gears. Not good, and lots of complaints about that issue on the E36 cars with the same problem.

*slightly* OT for this thread....But is 'hunting for gears' the phenomenon of not being able to push the shifter into 1st gear?

If so then i guess that would be a warning sign of needing to replace the bushings.

[dwm]

*slightly* OT for this thread....But is 'hunting for gears' the phenomenon of not being able to push the shifter into 1st gear?

If so then i guess that would be a warning sign of needing to replace the bushings.

No, that's the other service bulletin (catch pins) that a wise person would take care of at the same time (transmission out). That's the one that caused me to do this now... the catch pin for 1st and 2nd gear was sticking badly when the transmission was hot. We did the 5th/reverse locking pins (discussed in this thread) pre-emptively while doing the catch pins.

[clintjg]

Clint could give an estimate on doing it alone on jackstands.

[IzzataMiata]

It's OK if you don't like me calling it a hack (it's not my car), but I'm still going to call it a hack.

That's quite all right. At the end of the day, we both drive our sweet-shifting cars with equal satisfaction.

[Robstah]

Hmmmm. For some reason I can not find a place with the tools. All my parts dept. connections say that they are on backorder. Is there another source for these tools, or maybe reference numbers to other tools that will do the job as well?

[dwm]

Hmmmm. For some reason I can not find a place with the tools. All my parts dept. connections say that they are on backorder. Is there another source for these tools, or maybe reference numbers to other tools that will do the job as well?

For the drifts, try 23 4 020 (set of 23 4 021, 23 4 022 and 23 4 023). Sometimes BMW is reluctant to sell individuals from a set. I bought the set.

[Robstah]

For the drifts, try 23 4 020 (set of 23 4 021, 23 4 022 and 23 4 023). Sometimes BMW is reluctant to sell individuals from a set. I bought the set.

Alright, I'll ask my guy about it tomorrow. Just out of curiosity, do you think McMaster Carr could have this set as well?