Flared front fenders..

[vdshenoy]

Originally Posted by jmitro

does your class allow fiberglass body parts? that would be a lot easier AND less weight than metal fenders

XP allows any material for fenders. I think Fair wants it to look "pretty" too! lol

j/k

[jmitro]

these would be much easier and probably several pounds lighter, but also much more expensive:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ght=E36+flares

[Fair]

Originally Posted by vdshenoy

XP allows any material for fenders. I think Fair wants it to look "pretty" too! lol

Heck yes, I'll admit to being shallow: looks are important.



As for weight the steel front fenders weigh in the "ones of pounds". The rear flare section I added in steel probably added 2-3 pounds over the composite flares removed. Seriously, this is all superficial stuff, not structural.


I'll go back and weigh a steel replacement fender; its very light...

[lowside67]

My flares completed:

[99MPower]

damn that looks good Mark

[jdholder]

That looks very nice. What are you able to fit under the car now?

I might buy an E36 and turbo it - that would mean I need more tire - which you now have!!!

So cool!

[jmitro]

Nice job, guys. i might have to try grafting when I get bored.

now Mark's gotta change his signature line.

[lowside67]

I just need some good action shots.

Those flares accommodate a 285/30/18 all the way around. If you wanted more tire, replace E46 330 flare with E46 M3 flare and you're golden.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by jdholder

I might buy an E36 and turbo it - that would mean I need more tire - which you now have!!!

So cool!

I've always wondered why a guy wouldnt just use a stock E36 M3 motor and use a Technique Tuning Stage II turbo kit which by all reports is dead reliable and can make 350-400rwhp depending on boost level. Doesnt that sound like a good fairly budget powertrain?

[McCall]

Originally Posted by lowside67

I've always wondered why a guy wouldnt just use a stock E36 M3 motor and use a Technique Tuning Stage II turbo kit which by all reports is dead reliable and can make 350-400rwhp depending on boost level. Doesnt that sound like a good fairly budget powertrain?

I'd take a bone stock LS1 with a cam any day of the week, which would make the same hp level and more torque. BTW, "boost level" and "reliablility" are antoynms of each other.

As far as why Fair went with metal fender flares, I'd say because one hard cone hit to a fiberglass flare would crack it. Race-grade fiberglass is not autox friendly.

[Fair]

Originally Posted by lowside67

I've always wondered why a guy wouldnt just use a stock E36 M3 motor and use a Technique Tuning Stage II turbo kit which by all reports is dead reliable and can make 350-400rwhp depending on boost level. Doesnt that sound like a good fairly budget powertrain?

Hehehe... all it takes is about 30 seconds in an LS1 powered E36 to understand why we did this over an inline six turbo alternative. To summarize:

• Its waaaay cheaper overall
• More reliable by a long shot
• Can run on pump gas for hours on end at WOT
• Lighter than any iron block M/S50/52, much less one with a turbo
• Has far greater power potential (and I don't mean "dyno queen" number, I mean track worthy power). There's a heck of a lot more engine development and racing of LS1 engines going on currently than any factory BMW engine made.

Anyway, that's not why I came here to post. We had the steel flares body worked and have been using them at several events, before the car was parked and dis assembly began for a full repaint. Here's some pics from the Buttonwillow GRM UTCC event 2 weeks ago:



Still paintless, its better than it was with just exposed welds...

[GGray]

Originally Posted by Fair

Hehehe... all it takes is about 30 seconds in an LS1 powered E36 to understand why we did this over an inline six turbo alternative. To summarize:

• Its waaaay cheaper overall
• More reliable by a long shot
• Can run on pump gas for hours on end at WOT
• Lighter than any iron block M/S50/52, much less one with a turbo
• Has far greater power potential (and I don't mean "dyno queen" number, I mean track worthy power). There's a heck of a lot more engine development and racing of LS1 engines going on currently than any factory BMW engine made.

Anyway, that's not why I came here to post. We had the steel flares body worked and have been using them at several events, before the car was parked and dis assembly began for a full repaint. Here's some pics from the Buttonwillow GRM UTCC event 2 weeks ago:



Still paintless, its better than it was with just exposed welds...

Not so sure aboutthe way cheaper part...

LS1/T56 combo $3500-5000 for take outs
Kit to put it in $3500+

Even if you sell the M3 engine you are still behind the $ curve. since a TT kit is 6800 bucks ready to go in a box...

BUT like the old saying goes..."there is no replacement for displacement"

Hence I am lusting for an LS1/T56 powered track car of some type

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by GGray

Not so sure aboutthe way cheaper part...

LS1/T56 combo $3500-5000 for take outs
Kit to put it in $3500+

This is the problem.

The kit is $4825 for stage 0 plus another probably $2500 for stage 1 for a turn key solution. Almost 7500 including shipping plus 4000 for an engine = 11500, now we've gotta still put it in. I can appreciate the level of engineering in the kit but the price is huge. At $10k all done I think I could fathom the swap, but it's going to be $15k by the time all is done, that's just too much.

[McCall]

Originally Posted by lowside67

This is the problem.

The kit is $4825 for stage 0 plus another probably $2500 for stage 1 for a turn key solution. Almost 7500 including shipping plus 4000 for an engine = 11500, now we've gotta still put it in. I can appreciate the level of engineering in the kit but the price is huge. At $10k all done I think I could fathom the swap, but it's going to be $15k by the time all is done, that's just too much.

You are not factoring the price of the new BMW motor once it pops, and it will pop.

Then you are left with this:



And then the car sits for months or years and eventually is abandoned or sold off for parts. I've seen it over and over again.

Besides, you need to look at the torque curves of a V8 motor vs. a turbo. Sure, on the dyno (not the track) the peak numbers look simular but the power delivery is drasically different.

Now back on topic, the flares on the Alpha car look great and we are going to get that thing torn apart and painted as soon as I can get Fair out there to do it 8-)

[Fair]

I agree that our swap kit is anything but a cheap way to get an LS1 into a BMW, just easier and cleaner (and better). This "flares" thread is quickly veering off on a tangent, but McCall hit the nail ont he head:

1. To make over ~ 300-350 whp hp in a BMW six means you need boost, and lots of it. Heck, there are lots of built S52s that don't make anywhere near 300 whp. My M3's S52 with a chip, bolt ons and exhaust barely cracks 220 whp...
2. The cost of the turbo and blower kits are MUCH higher for BMW applications ($7000 is a good average) and these motors don't last under track abuse without ginormous intercoolers and a built motor and C16 race fuel (even then, they still break much more rapidly)
3. The stock high compression BMW motor isn't boost friendly, and they all break fairly easily if you drive them hard with any boost. Lots of turbo guys complain of "thermostat problems" that are really head gasket problems... over and over.
4. Ever priced a fully built S52/54? Its painfully expensive and that's assuming you have a good crank/block/head to start with. Try to buy one built outright and its $10-15K+. Custom cranks are unobtanium, and aftermarket heads & blocks simply don't exist.

It never makes sense to swap in a different motor that wasn't made to bolt into yoru chassis... unless you are talking about swapping in something as durable and powerful and light and as well supported as the LS1. 400 whp is hard not to make with a(n inexpensive) cam swap. I saw a stock longblock base Corvette's LS3 with just a cam and headers make 495 whp recently. 500 whp is still pretty easy to make in any flavor of LS1. A 600 whp LS1 motor is just a bit more displacement or RPMs + money - about what a built N.A. S54 longblock costs. 700 whp is just a bit more, etc. And then add a turbo... it keeps making more and more power, too. Luckily there are 1500-2000 hp capable blocks made for these motors. There's quite a few 1000 whp turbo LS1 motors running around in street driven cars. Not ground breaking stuff, just takes money and the right parts.

[GGray]

Not true..

My S52 with bolt on mods: euro header SS race muffler, test pipes,Dinan CAI, 24lb injectors, 3.5 MAF, Chip, pulleys, fan delete, LTW flywheel, and no cams made 238whp, 229trq... And I have seen a guy make 245whp/238trq without cams on an S52 with a custom tune...

My turbo S52 with 7.5psi made 354whp, 345trq.....Tuned with a TEC3R, I built the kit from scratch, and over engineered it. With 12-15psi I will crack easily into the low to mid 400whp. Basically 1 bar of boost. Motor will be stock minus a set of J&E 8.5:1 pistons, stock headgasket. With proper cooling it will be bullet proof...Track or street...The problem with turbo's is the boost crack monkey that seems to make you want to turn the wick up....just because you can....

The TT kits regularly make well over 300whp in STG1. A few have made close to 360whp.

My torque curve is flat as a pancake from 3000rpm to redline. Drivability depends on turbo size. I sized my turbo for the real world not a dyno...

I still dig the LS1 Swap though Something about the V8 noise in an E36 is wicked

Its a good swap but no way can you remotly say its cheaper...I can build a custom long stroke hybrid 3.0 turbo BMW motor for way less....

But that dam V8 is pretty bad ass 500whp of NA power is pretty addictive...At least in the Z06 I rode in....

[lowside67]

Yeah, there's no denying the power potential of the LS1, but I dont need 600rwhp, I want a reliable 350rwhp. The Technique Tuning kits have been making that all day long with 0 report of issues when tracked.

[McCall]

Since this thread has "gone off the tracks" so to speak, might as well post this here for those who like turbos :

http://videos.streetfire.net:80/vide...-on_168394.htm

[John in Houston]

Of course, at the end of a 20 minute lapping session, guess which car is making more HP? The heat soaked turbo car, or the naturally aspirated car?

[jmitro]

thanks to you guys that have done the hard work already (researched the fit of the flares), I added my own E46 330 sedan flares. Bought a pair off ebay for $95 shipped, and used the RF flare for the LR fender. Fit is not perfect....this one wrinkled a little bit trying to massage it into position, but I can smooth it with body filler. Top photo shows the fiberglass 240SX flares I was using before.

[Sammyzuko]

Originally Posted by lowside67

My flares completed:

I can barely tell the fenders have been flared. Excellent work!

[maxxfish]

Looking good, everyone.

Does anybody have a set of uncut 240SX flares (preferably fiberglass) the want to get rid of?

[Fair]

Originally Posted by maxxfish

Looking good, everyone.

Does anybody have a set of uncut 240SX flares (preferably fiberglass) the want to get rid of?

Well you've asked in the right thread - we have two sets for sale. (edit - they already sold)


These are all for sale

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...5#post15154215 - for sale post

One set is fiberglass and brand new (which RaceonUSA no longer sells), the other set is used, CF and trimmed to fit an E36 (these are now $400 new). Either set can be had for $200. (edit - they already sold)


The same style as used on Mark Uhlmann's 328is

Cheers,

[Sydewinder]

Car looks awesome. And a bit more traction never hurt anyone right? Is this the only way to do this or does anyone make flares? I've looked around and can only seem to find 8 piece widebody kits.

[Fair]

Originally Posted by Sydewinder

Car looks awesome. And a bit more traction never hurt anyone right? Is this the only way to do this or does anyone make flares? I've looked around and can only seem to find 8 piece widebody kits.

If someone is making "flares" that can be added to an E36 I sure haven't found them. All I've seen done are:

1. Widebody kits. Some look OK (MA Shaw), some look pretty tacky, most look downright terrible.
2. Home-made flares, most noteably the E46 fender sections grafted to the E36 fenders
3. Bolt on composite flares from other cars forced to work on an E36 (like the 240SX flares I just sold)
4. Flared front fenders and bolt-on rear fender flares (*good luck finding these)

Why nobody has made the third option specifically for an E36 is anyone's guess. Option 4 would seem ideal, but the one source found (there's a thread on bimmerforums) has seemed to disappeared and/or had sourcing problems.