e30 LS1 Buildup!

[garretvs]

LS1: 1999 Camaro; 56,000 miles on engine
T56: 1999 Firebird; 54,000 miles on tranny

[Digitalwave]

Longboard skating or surfing?

[garretvs]

Longboard skating or surfing?

Skating... Then I used it for 2 weeks thinking it was sprained...

-Garret

[garretvs]

Got a little done tonight. Right side cat looks nice. I'm probably going to cut the driver's side just before the cat and reweld it a little higher up for ground clearance issues...

On a side note it sucks being a single handed lefty when it comes to bolts and nuts in hard to reach places when holding still hot parts from welding in place (aka the collector flange bolts...)



Right side cat




Both






-Garret and Steve E30-LS1 aka. 357is

[taseal]

LS1: 1999 Camaro; 56,000 miles on engine
T56: 1999 Firebird; 54,000 miles on tranny

firebird tranny is not a T56. its a T5. (unless you meant a formula or trans am)

a T5 won't bolt to the ls1 because of diff bellhousings, and is a 5 speed.

[garretvs]

firebird tranny is not a T56. its a T5. (unless you meant a formula or trans am)

a T5 won't bolt to the ls1 because of diff bellhousings, and is a 5 speed.

Um no...

http://www.lastofthebreed.com/Servic...27s/T56FAQ.htm

but they did sell a 5 speed version too

[taseal]

Um no...

http://www.lastofthebreed.com/Servic...27s/T56FAQ.htm

but they did sell a 5 speed version too

Um no...

to what

who is they? 5 speed version what.

T56 is not used on firebirds.

Firebirds use T5s

I guarantee that T56 did not come out of a firebird. ya know why? '99 LS1 firebird doesn't exist. unless of course you pulled it out of a L38 firebird, which is impossible because they don't use T56s

i'm just being nitpicky.

firebird = v6 fbody
formula = v8 fbody in firebird style
trans am = v8 fbody with some exterior mods

[323I Junkie]

Whatever..Baseline firebirds werent even worth mentioning. Therfore, when you talk to most car guys, Firebird=Trans-Am/Formula. I guess a cars salesman might see the difference.



Anyway, fitment looks good, quick question though, how come you didnt hang ghte cats a little further back? I realize they work better hoter and closer, but Im thinking of replacement and clutch heat

[garretvs]

Yes, its a T56 from an F-body. The salvage yard receipt says "Firebird". The cats are near by the bellhousing as it has the most clearance / cavity inbetween the tranny and the underbody. Remember, this is a tiny chassis that has been lowered (by the previous owner) so we have to get as much ground clearance as possible. We will be doing heat-shields as necessary using polished aluminum sheet (roofing material = not spendy). Once we get to the back end of the cats, the exhaust will be simpler to run.

[Cyrix2k]

Whatever..Baseline firebirds werent even worth mentioning. Therfore, when you talk to most car guys, Firebird=Trans-Am/Formula. I guess a cars salesman might see the difference.



Anyway, fitment looks good, quick question though, how come you didnt hang ghte cats a little further back? I realize they work better hoter and closer, but Im thinking of replacement and clutch heat

+1 on both points.

Anyway, translating GM speak to BMW speak:
f-body = e36
firebird = 3-series
formula = 3-series with 2.5/2.8L engine
trans-am = M3

Technically, the formula and trans-am are called the "Firebird Formula" and "Firebird Trans-Am" but it is acceptable to call both Firebirds. It's just like the 328 - it is included in the 3-series class of cars just like the Formula is included the Firebird class of cars. The M3 is sort of in a class of its own as it is technically one step above what the trans-am is. The trans-am is closer to a 330/332 if one existed in the e36 chassis. The Firebird Trans-Am with the WS6 package would be akin to the M3.

[Firestorm]

Garret - Slow down!

Give me a chance to catch up!

[JoeZ]

Wow that's great that you guys got some shorty headers to work.....you saved bank on that!!! I tried the Hooker shorties with my p-ayr block when I was first getting things situated....they weren't going to be an easy fit with my motor placement and steering setup, so I broke down and bought Mike Collins' headers. My wallet is still sore

[garretvs]

Yeah finding the headers was REALLY lucky. Jeremy at Sanderson was really helpful because sent us 2 pairs and let us mix and match them free of charge. The driver's side is so perfect (but still really really tight) that we were looking at it yesterday and thought that we might have not even needed to make our own steering shaft with the way the header runs.


It's off to work now!
-Garret

[323I Junkie]

+1 on both points.

Anyway, translating GM speak to BMW speak:
f-body = e36
firebird = 3-series
formula = 3-series with 2.5/2.8L engine
trans-am = M3

Technically, the formula and trans-am are called the "Firebird Formula" and "Firebird Trans-Am" but it is acceptable to call both Firebirds. It's just like the 328 - it is included in the 3-series class of cars just like the Formula is included the Firebird class of cars. The M3 is sort of in a class of its own as it is technically one step above what the trans-am is. The trans-am is closer to a 330/332 if one existed in the e36 chassis. The Firebird Trans-Am with the WS6 package would be akin to the M3.

YEah, the first and early second gen Formula/Trans Ams had an interesting "heritage" UNlike today, the Trans AM was originally the "road race" version of the car while the Formula was originally the drag race version, from what I can tell. NOw , it turned to simply levels of performance. Ironically, the Formula still has/had the lower drag coefficient and is capable of being lighter. I hope if they rebuild the FIrebird, it never sees a V6 again, I also hope they make two distinct functions, a 1LE Trans Am, because sadly they say the TA never ran inthe race it was named after. I hope they then make a stripper lightweight Formula. Some of you may know the history better, but this is what ive gathered from the option codes/books ive read

[garretvs]

Hey, we're building an E30 with a big V8 ... don't care much about F-bodies, except wrecked ones ....

Garret & Steve building E30-LS1 aka 357is

got the exhaust welded-up from the headers back to the tranny mount; ran out of U-bends; got to the local speed shop 15mins too late today

[Firestorm]

Looking good

[speedyhawk101]

You guys are really trucking along. Keep it up!!

[Warez]

+1 on both points.

Anyway, translating GM speak to BMW speak:
f-body = e36
firebird = 3-series
formula = 3-series with 2.5/2.8L engine
trans-am = M3

Technically, the formula and trans-am are called the "Firebird Formula" and "Firebird Trans-Am" but it is acceptable to call both Firebirds. It's just like the 328 - it is included in the 3-series class of cars just like the Formula is included the Firebird class of cars. The M3 is sort of in a class of its own as it is technically one step above what the trans-am is. The trans-am is closer to a 330/332 if one existed in the e36 chassis. The Firebird Trans-Am with the WS6 package would be akin to the M3.

What about the Firehawk or 1LE stripper cars

[MWrench]

Yeah, CA emissions rules are a bit tough! It is correct that the short headers will help light off the cats quickly from a cold start and would be one of the test that would be needed to get a "non-certified" header to pass CA emissions. Any header that is after market must be tested and have a C.A.R.B. number affixed to the header to be used in CA.

The LS1 was used in the first year GTO and didn't have a air pump, the reason is because the first cat is so close to the header flange the cats light up quickly, Cameros and Firebirds needed the air pump because the cat was quite aways down stream and they even used double wall tubing to the first cat to help keep the heat. Even the LS6 'Vette engine used an air pump for the same reason. Air pumps usually don't hurt HP because they are only on during cold start BUT, many times in the stock applications there is no care taken where or how the air connection is made to the header and can really disturb the exhaust flow.

The only worry about not meeting CA emissions is if you ever plan to sell the car, it can not be registered in CA unless it is SMOG compliant. All the conversions I do meet CA SMOG requirement and I can tell you sometimes it is a PITA! Particularly when a custom header is required, even thou it will pass the sniff test, it has to pass the "visual" inspection and if it is a custom header, it has to have a metal tag with the C.A.R.B. number on it. We have to take any modified car to the B.A.R. station ( Bureau of Automotive Repair) for inspection and get a sticker so that future SMOG testing can be done to the new engine requirements.

FYI

[garretvs]

Thanks, MWrench

We assume that we will have to pass emissions testing here in WA -- along with a pass by the State Patrol inspection. Emissions testing here is done after the car is hot (no cold-start testing that we know of) so no air pump (it only runs for 180 secs maximum after cold start on an F-body). Hopefully, our mini-cats are close enough to the end of the header collector. We are going to use (4) O2 sensors, still need to locate them.

We would have finished the exhaust last weekend, but ran out of U-bends on Saturday afternoon, and got to the local speed shop 15mins too late to buy more -- got to get some on the way home from the office.

Garret says he's not ever going to sell it, and if it gets wrecked, he'll salvage the drivetrain and our mods and put it into another E30 ...

Garret & Steve doing E30-LS1 aka 357is

got a "735" badge coming ... going too cut it into "357" ....

[Cyrix2k]

What about the Firehawk or 1LE stripper cars

M3 lightweight and Alpina varients?

[garretvs]

[Torquewrench]

I may be crazy, but shouldn't there be some rubber hangers in there somewhere?

[Cyrix2k]

I may be crazy, but shouldn't there be some rubber hangers in there somewhere?

I think it's fine to bolt them on. My dad's '69 442 is like that iirc, but he has a ball joint between the headers and exhaust so the engine doesn't break anything when it moves from the torque.

[garretvs]

Rubber hangers for the rest of the exhaust. We need to keep the headers/cats/fwd pipe sections as a unit with the engine and tranny; note the close clearance to the tranny mount. Hopefully, we won't have any thermal expansion problems between the hard-mounted front sections and the alum block/tranny. The alum expands twice as much as the steel, but the steel is 2x hotter than the alum -- at least after the cats......... we'll see what, if anything breaks. If it does, we buy some expansion bellows to fix it.