is it possible to mock AA or TT kit?

[BMWFanatic]

Im a noob at turboed bimmers, but im planning on turboing my car this year and want to find a used TT or AA stage 1 kit. is it possible to 'mock' the tt stage 1 kit with getting same injectors, manifold, turbo etc. and then just buying the tune outright for the setup?


-Chase

[Moreboost356]

Im a noob at turboed bimmers, but im planning on turboing my car this year and want to find a used TT or AA stage 1 kit. is it possible to 'mock' the tt stage 1 kit with getting same injectors, manifold, turbo etc. and then just buying the tune outright for the setup?


-Chase

That's more or less what I'm doing in my approach.
In a way, yes, it can be done.

Technique Tuning kit utilizes a ball bearing? Garrett T3 60-1 turbocharger w/ I believe a 0.63 A/R housing, I went w/ the non ball bearing turbocharger with 0.82 A/R. Spool shouldn't be a serious problem. These range anywhere from $650.00 for non ball bearing, stage 3 wheeled 0.63 A/R (Small) 60-1 with T04E or TO4S front end compressor - T04E has a 3.0" inlet where as the T04S has a 4.0" inlet, you don't HAVE to run a 4.0" intake off the inlet but I am for optimal flow

Turbonetics manifold runs roughly $750.00 and needs a tap for the wastegate flange to sit so that's another additional $50 - $100.00 depending on where / who does your machining.

Active Autowerke's manifold runs $1,300.00 brand new, I got mine used from www.icsperformance.com - contact people and see what they've got, you'd be surprised what you can find

Outside of that, a Precision front mount air to air intercooler adaquete for the power level(s) you're seeking - 300 - 350 / 375 - 400? Can be had for $360.00 if you want quality for the price.

Blow off valve (Recirculated) ranges from $175.00 (Turbosmart Plumb Back) to $500.00 for a Turbonetics Godzilla. THE BLOW OFF VALVE MUST RECIRCULATE AIR IF YOU PLAN ON RUNNING A MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR please note this <<< Deletion of the Mass air flow sensor is only possible with standalone, if you plan on running a "chip" provided by:

www.activeautowerke.com
www.techniquetuning.com
www.icsperformance.com
Member Techno550 - www.racersmarket.net
(Other members here can tune for you as well, just make a general inquiry and hope you get a response)

Then you will HAVE to run a mass air flow sensor.

Aftermarket standalone engine management systems are rather expensive compared to the approach of a .bin file "chip" or "reflash" of the stock DME:

Electromotive Tec3 and Tec3R engine management systems - Range from $2,000.00 to $3,000.00 with a complete harness - Provided by Vic Sias of SIAS Tuning.
AEM EMS - Contact AEM to attain one, seek out a used unit if you find a good deal or contact EVOsport who can provide you with one for roughly $3,000.00 - $3,500.00 with a COMPLETE harness.

Wastegate - $210.00 Tial 38mm Wastegate w/ (Insert psi spring here).

Exhaust - This is up to you, Active Autowerke's has a $1,200.00 unit that I personally think is a little overpriced but would flow incredibly I'd imagine - YOU WOULD STILL NEED A DOWNPIPE FOR THIS. Mufflers can be purchased through www.magnaflow.com or www.borla.com

If you want loud, go with the Borla XR-1 stainless 3.0" straight thru design race muffler. This particular piece retails for roughly $335.00 - $350.00

Magnaflow is adequete sound wise, especially if you run a resonator between the downpipe and the exit muffler. These, depending on which one you get range from $199.00 to $250.00 - best "bang for the buck" when going custom, considering you'll spend anywhere from $175 - $300.00 for a downpipe, keep in mind (and cost) price of flanges for downpipe + exhaust system, replacing your exhaust hangers, and the parts + labor involved in fabricating the rest of the exhaust system (I.E - Turboback w/ muffler and flanges provided ='s $450.00 - $700.00). If you seek interest in a Magnaflow, go to the "Universal Muffler" section of their site. There are many other retailers they support, which they list on their site, whom may be able to give you a better price / availability and price / quote on shipping as well. For example, if you order from California but live in Texas, there's no sales tax

Drivetrain - Clutch + flywheel - Again, this is up to you, tons of companies make clutches for higher horsepower BMWs. Active Autowerke's one clutch kit is nothing but a beefed up E34 M5 clutch kit . . . . and the other at retail is $1,600.00 with their flywheel. A very good setup, but if you're trying to save some money on this build > www.specclutch.com < I'm personally going UUC when I can www.uucmotorwerks.com. Be prepared to spend $1,000.00 to $1,200.00 depending on power level for clutch + flywheel through UUC.

SPEC is a little less expensive, they're more in the 850 (Clutch and flywheel based on power goal(s)) to $1,100.00.

Head gasket and ARP head studs - Roughly 375 - $400.00 for both as a set from VAC Motorsports if you're planning on anything over 10psi on a stock bottom end.

Stock air mass meter, for the ///M3 at least is "maxed out" so to speak at roughly 6.5psi - If you have good tuning, say a GOOD Active Autowerke's tune or Nick G. (I recommend Nick G.) take into account how much this will add to the total cost of your kit, unless you can tune it yourself or go standalone, but with how many people go standalone to push 350rwhp, I don't see much of a point to do this if that's your goal.

3.5" Air Mass Meters can be had for $300.00 - $350.00 for either I believe there's one that's a FORD 80mm Air mass meter, 540i 3.5" HFM and Porsche 993-TT 3.5" HFM <<< These HFM set ups are all different for each tuner. If you go w/ the Porsche-TT MAF for example, that would be for an Active Autowerke tune.


All in all, total, you could potentially come out w/ the same numbers as a Technique Tuning Stage 2 kit if you really took your time w/ finding the best prices etc . . .

As far as replicating an Active Autowerke's kit, why?

J/K - Your money, your car - do what you want w/ it

A stage 1 Active Autowerke "replica" kit would be easy to produce, outside of the whole Mitsubishi TD06H-20G costs $1,000.00 in the year 2007

If you have the time to commit to going to the "ends of the earth" so to speak to find all these parts, put them in one pile and realize the patience, time, energy, sweat, beer, bad pizza and late night re-runs of Die Hard on FX, then by all means piece the kit together!!

Board member techo550 - www.racersmarket.net can supply you with a SPA T3 flanged exhaust manifold, turbocharger, wastegate, blow off valve, oil feed and return, exhaust manifold gaskets, nuts and bolts for exhaust manifold to block, injectors, vacuum routing, t-fittings, t-bolt clamps, couplers, parts for exhaust fabrication, possibly tuning and more.

A couple of other sites, that will be helpful in getting good pricing on parts:

www.extremepsi.com > Great pricing on HKS SSQ. BOV (Remember to get the recirculating fitting and flange with order) + Precision front mount air to air intercooler for $360.00 - capable of supporting up to 650 horsepower.
www.horsepowerfreaks.com
Board member ebydrc can be extremely helpful in laying out everything you'd need for your build as well, his site is www.vpfab.com

PM me if you have any questions.

Cheers,

- Nick

[Kevlar]

Awesome information...

[Moreboost356]

Awesome information...

Thanks

There are a lot of things that aren't "out in the open" so to speak as far as the FAQ goes, albeit a compiled list of builds undertaken personally by members here, a lot of the threads are either so old the pictures of their build are no longer hosted, don't really have any answers as to "why that part?" or "why did you decide to install XXX part in XXX location rather than here or there" etc . . .

Creates more questions than really absolves.

In the near future, I wouldn't mind and would like to post a write up to include in the F.I FAQ, pointing out specific characteristics / necessities of a basic BMW turbo build - E36 specific.

Including parts and prices of all neccesary parts from competitive vendors / retailers, total and comprehensive list of parts needed for the build (Everything from Turbocharger to bottom end gasket kit when re-installing oil pan after tapping for oil return bung).

As I listed, the difference in purpose / pricing of standalone, piggy back and DME tuning - all based on necessity to answer the forgoing question of "This is what I want, but what do I need?", sort of show them where the line is as far as things they don't really need, what's been proven to be reliable, what's within their budget, all laid out in one post.

The fact that you only use / retain an air mass meter w/ DME tuning as opposed to Standalone could save or waste a lot of money on a build, not knowing this someone will assume a Tial 50mm BOV will work well and reliably with their Active Autowerke's tuned custom 20G kit, when in reality it won't, at least not all the time and reliably and a Turbosmart plumb-back could have been had for $35.00 less (and etc . . . for all other areas of this application).

Whether or not the person in question seeking advice for their build has intentions of an Auto-X car, drag car, Road course car, Street car, Drift car or all out "highway monster", I could compile information based on and to suit each particular application's needs.

If I compile such a list I would like to see what your feedback / approval would be on it.

Anyway, thanks for the comment . . here to help

[Moreboost356]

Im a noob at turboed bimmers, but im planning on turboing my car this year and want to find a used TT or AA stage 1 kit. is it possible to 'mock' the tt stage 1 kit with getting same injectors, manifold, turbo etc. and then just buying the tune outright for the setup?


-Chase

That's more or less what I'm doing in my approach.
In a way, yes, it can be done.

Technique Tuning kit utilizes a non ball bearing Garrett 60 trim T3 flanged turbocharger with a 0.70 A/R and an 0.82 A/R hotside, I went w/ the non ball bearing turbocharger with 0.82 A/R. Spool shouldn't be a serious problem. These range anywhere from $650.00 for non ball bearing, stage 3 wheeled 0.63 A/R (Small) 60-1 with T04E or TO4S front end compressor - T04E has a 3.0" inlet where as the T04S has a 4.0" inlet, you don't HAVE to run a 4.0" intake off the inlet but I am for optimal flow

For my setup, specificaly I chose: Garrett non ball bearing 60-1 with the following spec:

0.70 A/R T04S front end compressor
Polished front end compressor housing w/ 4.0" inch inlet
0.82 A/R Turbine housing
HPC coated turbine housing *Minimize exhaust gas temps*
Stage 5 wheel
Oil cooled

Flow is roughly 62lb. / hour, so it should flow enough to produce a solid 450rwhp with some room for growth to upper 475 / 480rwhp, but with close to maxing it out @ 18 - 20psi. Anything past 20psi and it's nothing but hot air.

Turbonetics manifold runs roughly $750.00 and needs a tap for the wastegate flange to sit so that's another additional $50 - $100.00 depending on where / who does your machining.

Active Autowerke's manifold runs $1,300.00 brand new, I got mine used from www.icsperformance.com - contact people and see what they've got, you'd be surprised what you can find

Outside of that, a Precision front mount air to air intercooler adaquete for the power level(s) you're seeking - 300 - 350 / 375 - 400? Can be had for $360.00 if you want quality for the price.

Blow off valve (Recirculated) ranges from $175.00 (Turbosmart Plumb Back) to $500.00 for a Turbonetics Godzilla. THE BLOW OFF VALVE MUST RECIRCULATE AIR IF YOU PLAN ON RUNNING A MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR please note this <<< Deletion of the Mass air flow sensor is only possible with standalone, if you plan on running a "chip" provided by:

www.activeautowerke.com
www.techniquetuning.com
www.icsperformance.com
Member Techno550 - www.racersmarket.net
(Other members here can tune for you as well, just make a general inquiry and hope you get a response)

Then you will HAVE to run a mass air flow sensor.

Aftermarket standalone engine management systems are rather expensive compared to the approach of a .bin file "chip" or "reflash" of the stock DME:

Electromotive Tec3 and Tec3R engine management systems - Range from $2,000.00 to $3,000.00 with a complete harness - Provided by Vic Sias of SIAS Tuning.
AEM EMS - Contact AEM to attain one, seek out a used unit if you find a good deal or contact EVOsport who can provide you with one for roughly $3,000.00 - $3,500.00 with a COMPLETE harness.

Wastegate - $210.00 Tial 38mm Wastegate w/ (Insert psi spring here).

Exhaust - This is up to you, Active Autowerke's has a $1,200.00 unit that I personally think is a little overpriced but would flow incredibly I'd imagine - YOU WOULD STILL NEED A DOWNPIPE FOR THIS. Mufflers can be purchased through www.magnaflow.com or www.borla.com

If you want loud, go with the Borla XR-1 stainless 3.0" straight thru design race muffler. This particular piece retails for roughly $335.00 - $350.00

Magnaflow is adequete sound wise, especially if you run a resonator between the downpipe and the exit muffler. These, depending on which one you get range from $199.00 to $250.00 - best "bang for the buck" when going custom, considering you'll spend anywhere from $175 - $300.00 for a downpipe, keep in mind (and cost) price of flanges for downpipe + exhaust system, replacing your exhaust hangers, and the parts + labor involved in fabricating the rest of the exhaust system (I.E - Turboback w/ muffler and flanges provided ='s $450.00 - $700.00). If you seek interest in a Magnaflow, go to the "Universal Muffler" section of their site. There are many other retailers they support, which they list on their site, whom may be able to give you a better price / availability and price / quote on shipping as well. For example, if you order from California but live in Texas, there's no sales tax

Drivetrain - Clutch + flywheel - Again, this is up to you, tons of companies make clutches for higher horsepower BMWs. Active Autowerke's one clutch kit is nothing but a beefed up E34 M5 clutch kit . . . . and the other at retail is $1,600.00 with their flywheel. A very good setup, but if you're trying to save some money on this build > www.specclutch.com < I'm personally going UUC when I can www.uucmotorwerks.com. Be prepared to spend $1,000.00 to $1,200.00 depending on power level for clutch + flywheel through UUC.

SPEC is a little less expensive, they're more in the 850 (Clutch and flywheel based on power goal(s)) to $1,100.00.

Head gasket and ARP head studs - Roughly 375 - $400.00 for both as a set from VAC Motorsports if you're planning on anything over 10psi on a stock bottom end.

Stock air mass meter, for the ///M3 at least is "maxed out" so to speak at roughly 6.5psi - If you have good tuning, say a GOOD Active Autowerke's tune or Nick G. (I recommend Nick G.) take into account how much this will add to the total cost of your kit, unless you can tune it yourself or go standalone, but with how many people go standalone to push 350rwhp, I don't see much of a point to do this if that's your goal.

3.5" Air Mass Meters can be had for $300.00 - $350.00 for either I believe there's one that's a FORD 80mm Air mass meter, 540i 3.5" HFM and Porsche 993-TT 3.5" HFM <<< These HFM set ups are all different for each tuner. If you go w/ the Porsche-TT MAF for example, that would be for an Active Autowerke tune.


All in all, total, you could potentially come out w/ the same numbers as a Technique Tuning Stage 2 kit if you really took your time w/ finding the best prices etc . . .

As far as replicating an Active Autowerke's kit, why?

J/K - Your money, your car - do what you want w/ it

A stage 1 Active Autowerke "replica" kit would be easy to produce, outside of the whole Mitsubishi TD06H-20G costs $1,000.00 in the year 2007

If you have the time to commit to going to the "ends of the earth" so to speak to find all these parts, put them in one pile and realize the patience, time, energy, sweat, beer, bad pizza and late night re-runs of Die Hard on FX, then by all means piece the kit together!!

Board member techo550 - www.racersmarket.net can supply you with a SPA T3 flanged exhaust manifold, turbocharger, wastegate, blow off valve, oil feed and return, exhaust manifold gaskets, nuts and bolts for exhaust manifold to block, injectors, vacuum routing, t-fittings, t-bolt clamps, couplers, parts for exhaust fabrication, possibly tuning and more.

A couple of other sites, that will be helpful in getting good pricing on parts:

www.extremepsi.com > Great pricing on HKS SSQ. BOV (Remember to get the recirculating fitting and flange with order) + Precision front mount air to air intercooler for $360.00 - capable of supporting up to 650 horsepower.
www.horsepowerfreaks.com
Board member ebydrc can be extremely helpful in laying out everything you'd need for your build as well, his site is www.vpfab.com

PM me if you have any questions.

Cheers,

- Nick

To add to this information, a more thorough and comprehensive list that can possibly aid in your pursuit of Forced Induction:

www.atpturbo.com > Garrett T3 flanged ball bearing 60-1 Turbocharger (Same technology as the GT series turbochargers I.E - GT28RS "Disco Potato", GT30R, GT35R and of course the GT40 and 42R series) If I were to do it over again, I would get the ball bearing version of the Garrett T3 60-1 I have now, but I wanted EXACT specs on it before ordering and www.full-race.com was so inclined to do so for me, for under $1,000.00. The 60-1 in ball bearing form retails for $1,200.00, which is approx. $125.00 less than you will spend for the GT30R and is practicaly a mirror image of the performance you will see from the GT30R turbocharger.

With a ball bearing turbocharger, you will need an oil restrictor fitting, which can be found through www.aeroquip.com or www.atpturbo.com

The ball bearing 60-1 is oil cooled ONLY, unlike the GT series, which you could say is a difference but merely in design and not performance (to an extreme degree anyway). The GT series turbochargers are oil and coolant cooled, for the most part so specify that you will need lines for both inlets and outlets when ordering or keep in mind at least that you will be spending more money on routing lines for oil AND coolant.

As far as spool characteristics will go, you will hear a LOT from people that a cast manifold will not flow as well as an equal length manifold. This is true for the most part, but in my honest opinion - if you're going for daily driven, street and or street / track performance and want to build a custom kit for the sole purpose of re-creating what would usually cost 7 - 10K for less than said price, just stick with a cast manifold for under and up to 500 - 550 rear wheel horsepower, which would on an M3 for comparison's sake, equate to roughly 560 - 610 engine horsepower at the crankshaft. Anything above that and yes, you will have to upgrade to an equal length manifold, larger injectors, more extensive fuel system than just a drop in Warlbro fuel pump, larger lines, fuel pressure regulator and etc . . .

Fuel - As far as fueling for the increased volume the turbocharger will create in each cylinder of the engine, you will need larger injectors. The most common application for turbocharging is a set of top feed, high impedance 42lb. or 440cc fuel injectors. These will and have been proven to approx. 490 at the rear wheels on an M3, again for comparison, equipped with a large single GT35R turbocharger, tuned by ICS Performance.

In my opinion, 490 at the wheels on 42. lb injectors is dangerously close to 100% duty cycle, but again with a GOOD tune, ala - ICS Performance / Active Autowerke's or Nick G. of Technique Tuning, you could achieve such numbers with their recommendation and not have a worry in the world.

For reference, to repeat - Whichever injectors you decide to go with, make sure that they:

A - Fit the stock fuel rail
B - Are HIGH impedance > For a retuned factory DME, you can only run high impedance injectors, so please specify this when ordering - NOT low impedance
C - Are TOP feed injectors (Standard Precision domestic 42lb. injectors for instance are top feed, high impedance and accomodate the factory fuel rail)

In addition to injectors, as far as the upgrading of the standard OE Bosch in tank fuel pump, I highly recommend the Warlbro 255lph (Liters per hour) / High Pressure in tank fuel pump.

Personally, I know a lot of people go with the standard 255lph fuel pump, but as far as I understand it, the High Pressure fuel pump, much like the Aeromotive in tank is more capable of pressure stability at higher (Say 500rwhp) range, than it's standard counterpart.

Go with whichever, for your goals of what I'd imagine to be 300 - 375rwhp, it should be more than adequete for future upgrades up to and under 500rwhp.

www.atpturbo.com carries the universal Warlbo 255lph-HIGH Pressure in tank fuel pump, carried and retailed at $127.00 (OE fuel filter replacement recommended if you have not done so recently - better off doing it now and getting it out of the way with the installation of a new fuel pump). Fuel pump is in tank so the tank will have to come out, removal of OE Bosch unit and re-installation of new Warlbro 255lph-HP unit. Take into account the labor time / rate of this if you yourself are not inclined to do so before purchasing.

"In line" as opposed to "In tank" fuel pumps, such as aeromotive's "Tsunami" or "Eliminator" fuel pumps require a relay (12 volts to 15 depending on pump(s) and application) since they, for the most part (Almost 100% of the time) do not share the same power source of the primary OE Bosch in tank fuel pump and are only really necessary for higher horsepower applications that demand a higher, constant rate of fuel pressure above say 80 - 100psi and up. You do not need an inline pump. As cool as the idea is of running a ridiculous amount of pressure through a set of six 1200cc injectors is, it's not reasonable for a 400 horsepower street car.

In addition to all this "Go fast" application, check to see what may need replaced on your car in the meantime. If your alternator is going bad or you have a leaking valve cover gasket, a turbocharger is only going to make that symptom worse, period.

With that being said, there are several OE replacement + upgrade recommendations in addition to all of the aforementioned "bolt on" application for your prospective build in question.

First, taking into account the mileage of your vehicle, you want to see what shape the cylinder head and pistons are in. Again, if you have piston ring lands for instance, that will only create a problem later on down the road and should be addressed before ANYTHING else is installed on the car.

www.pelicanparts.com has the best prices (In my humble opinion) for all the OE replacement gaskets, seals, seats, rings, valves, valve springs, retainers, valve guides and etc . . . for your OE to turbo application.

To compare, for my application I've chosen to go with E39 Valve springs, E39 Steel retainers and OE valve guides paired with a Cometic multi layered steel head gasket and ARP head studs, ARP main studs and ARP rod bolts paired to a set of Eagle H-Beam connecting rods.

***Note - In requesting a Cometic, multi layered steel head gasket, make sure you are set on either lowering the compression by JUST a head gasket and ARP head studs or if you think you will have the interest in upgrading Pistons, rods, rod bearings, piston rings, honing or boring the block and etc . . . in the future. If you do, a 0.140 thickness Cometic multi layered steel head gasket will NOT work and is not suitable for say a set of Supertech 8:5:1 Pistons.

The measurements of the Cometic head gaskets are based on the compression that you are attempting to lower. If you want to stick with stock pistons and rods (10:5:1 Compression) and want say 8:5:1 or 9:3:1 you want something along the lines of 0.120 or 0.140. If you already have 8:5:1 compression achieved through a forged, aftermarket bottom end, you want something closer to stock thickness, which if memory serves should be right around 0.08.

This can be discussed and handled for you by contacting www.vacmotorsports.com www.icsperformance.com or board member and supporting vendor (Very nice guy) ebydrc www.vpfab.com

Before installation of aforementioned head gasket and head studs, remove the head or have it removed professionaly for you and have an experienced machinist go over and check for any warping, cracks and check deck height if the cylinder head has been "taken down" or resurfaced before. If it's been resurfaced and taken down too far, the compression will actually be higher than you want, you don't want this. It's worth the money and time in my opinion to do this and replace all the KEY components of the cylinder head. There's no need to go all out with Ferrea or Supertech or *Insert brand name aftermarket valves, springs and retainer company here* - OE valve springs, OE retainers and OE guides will suit you just fine for 300 - 375rwhp with room for more. The OE valvetrain's have been tested to support upwards of 500 - 550+ rwhp with adequete flow and stiffness / rebound.

If you are financially inclined to do a full bottom end or would like the added insurance of stronger internals, my personal opinion for your particular build, without going to excess would be:

8:5:1 Compression Supertech Pistons - Retail for $870.00 roughly - Take into account shipping and piston rings. - www.vacmotorsports.com / www.icsperformance.com / ebydrc - www.vpfab.com
Stock rods with new OE rod bearings and OE rod bolts replaced - Have checked for any cracking, warping and or any other obvious damage before installation of new bearings and bolts.
New OE Valve springs, New OE Retainers and new OE Valve guides + Removal of ALL carbon build up from age beforehand (A professional machinist will do this regardless) + Resurfacing - www.pelicanparts.com - Roughly $450.00 - $475.00 + Machine work.
Replacement of OE upper AND lower timing chains and tensioners - Again, just a maintenance precaution and a personal "piece of mind"' - www.pelicanparts.com - $125.00 - $135.00 for both with tensioners.
Cometic multi layered steel head gasket with ARP head studs (ARP main studs as well, if you see fit or chose to do so as well) - $375.00 - $400.00 retail - www.vacmotorsports.com www.icsperformance.com / www.vpfab.com - ebydrc
Piston rings - Total Seal "Gapless" Rings, personal choice / favorite of mine and can be purchased through such aforementioned retailers and bimmerforums.com approved supporting vendors.

In addition, with replacing standard OE equipment such as valvetrain, timing chains and tensioners, fuel pump, fuel filter, oil filter, oil pan gasket, front and rear main seal, valve cover gasket, head gasket, head studs, main studs, pistons, piston rings, connecting rods, connecting rod bearings, main bearings, connecting rod bolts and etc . . . The factory oil pump sees failure at high mileage if the oil pump nut is not secured. See www.vacmotorsports.com for their upgrade kit or upgraded OE oil pump assembly. The oil pump upgrade "kit" retails for $199.00 as the pump retails for $299.00, but highly recommended for reliable high mileage and daily driving / track driving of your car.

Gaskets in total:

"Bottom end gasket kit" - www.pelicanparts.com included oil pan gasket / rear main seal / front main seal and etc . . .
Intake manifold gasket set
Exhaust manifold gasket set (Sold in pairs, so order depending on your motor - 2 to 3 individual - 2 to 3 total)
Spark plug well gasket (Cheap, worth it)

If you run a turbocharger with a 4.0" inch inlet on the front end compressor housing, you will have to run a motor mount bracket, which allows you to run a low level 4.0" intake. a 3.5" base K & N cone air filter would work well given the 3.5" air mass meter and 4.0" front end compressor inlet, the restrictions would be within 0.5" of an inch. Retailers of motor mount brackets:

www.boostlogic.com (My personal choice - Cleanest finish, straight forward, strongest proven design in my opinion, period).
www.cartech.com
www.vpfab.com / Supporting vendor - ebydrc
www.racersmarket.net

All the same price, so it's up to you which one you'd want.



Changed and added a couple things



Take care and good luck

pm with questions

[MikeHsu]

nice write up. wow, thanks for taking the time to write all of that.

[Moreboost356]

nice write up. wow, thanks for taking the time to write all of that.

No problem, I'm located in Baltimore, just shout if you ever need a hand

[bmw318is1994]

nice write up. wow, thanks for taking the time to write all of that.

i agree

u rock!!!

[Moreboost356]

Once I have time tonight, I'm going to add a conversion table for injector sizing - Engine displacement / projected horsepower.

So it will read:

199x E36 3xx BMW - Engine displacement x.xx liters / Projected horsepower w/ XXX tuning + / - supporting mods and engine management (High or low impedance, stock fuel rail, boostlogic rail).

If I get the time.

There's more I need to add to this to make it more informative, such as the *average* pricing of intercooler piping, the demand for a complete kit, the neccesary hardware to install a front mount intercooler, end tank fitment and etc . . .

I.E - Why I suggest against ebay front mount intercoolers, being as you end up paying or having to perform yourself the cutting / cutting to get them to fit the factory bumper. < Just an opinion though, as I see it they're cheap (as you can possibly get) but there are other, better alternatives out there, that out weigh the pricing of what has and would be paid through major BMW centered manuf. of front mount intercoolers - their kits, albeit complete are still $1,000.00 - $1,300.00, where as a Precision or Treadstone (www.treadstoneperformance.com) front mount intercooler are priced accordingly with proven PROVEN statistics. Including the cost of intercooler brackets, couplers and t-bolt clamps it still out weighs what we've all paid in the past here for a complete kit.

Just my $0.02 - Pricing of intercooler brackets depends on the labor rate set by the according shop / technician / machinist who works on your car, but if I were to wager what I've been quoted / offered - it's safely in the range of roughly $50 - $60.00 for quality welded brackets.

[Bav///Man]

Very nice info, thanks for sharing.

I would like to see the $s, though. For me, the kit that included a tune from a professional tuner and a warranty on the items was what sold me. Not to mention the price is debatably the same as a DIY kit (if not cheaper in many cases).

But to each his own and I thank you for sharing the information with the community.

[FastrTHNu]

by the time you run around trying to get all the correct parts needed for the project... In my personal opinion, Technique Tuning is THE way to go.

I had a TT Stg.1 and Stg.2 set-up (on same car) and i could not have a better exprience...

Dont forget a clutch, boost guage and for a little extra you can get a full 3" exhaust with the TT kit.

You wont be sad if you go that route...

Whatever you do, have fun and boost on!!!!

[WCM3]

damn that's alot of info!! nice work.

I'm actually trying to replicate a boostlogic+ setup for roughly the cost of the stage 1 tt setup. So far, so good. I think a major part of it are your "connections." I have family that deals with machine shops, etc. So I am able to get alot of parts for a little over cost.

[328iJunkie]

Very informative...

Stock HG size is .07 BTW...

[Veriest1]

If you run a turbocharger with a 4.0" inch inlet on the front end compressor housing, you will have to run a motor mount bracket, which allows you to run a low level 4.0" intake. a 3.5" base K & N cone air filter would work well given the 3.5" air mass meter and 4.0" front end compressor inlet, the restrictions would be within 0.5" of an inch.

Didn't know that at all. Very interesting.

Thank you so much for all of this information. It would have taken me forever to find on my own (and was during the last week or so).

[GGray]

TT uses a .70 with, pretty sure he uses a 60 trim and a .82. I don't think he uses a ball bearing unit either.

I have a T3/TO4E with .63/57 trim, and .60/57 trim stage three wheel. I am going to put a .82 housing on it the .60 works great for the street but on a track I need a little more up top and the .82 should cure the problem.

I build my set up using an SPA manifold which is 450 and flows as much as the AA or Turbonetics.

You should be able to buy all the hard parts for around 2k.

[Shuasha]

TT is NOT a ball bearing turbo.

[Moreboost356]

by the time you run around trying to get all the correct parts needed for the project... In my personal opinion, Technique Tuning is THE way to go.

I had a TT Stg.1 and Stg.2 set-up (on same car) and i could not have a better exprience...

Dont forget a clutch, boost guage and for a little extra you can get a full 3" exhaust with the TT kit.

You wont be sad if you go that route...

Whatever you do, have fun and boost on!!!!

Very true, and good point w/ purchasing a complete kit but in a way I think sometimes people will have to save and wait and wait and wait to afford a kit, and doing your own research and individual parts purchasing sort of ups the suspense of the outcome in a way.

If you're able to "do it yourself" for less, the "less" is mainly profit margin that you're absolving or rather would have paid for a kit (That is, given you save money in the end as opposed to surpass or god forbid double).

As I see it, pricing on some (Not including the Technique kit in this opinion), but some "kits" out there are either a - outdated, b-overpriced, c-just un-affordable for "everyday" people to justify purchasing on their own *Who only want a "fun" car*. I like building cars based on how they feel and drive, not just purely by numbers, but unfortunately more power, more money - just the nature of the beast. BUT seeing the reliable power people here have made personally for much less than expected proves the possibility of an affordable, yet time consuming DIY "Gathering of parts" and build / repair.

Even if someone, ultimately goes with a kit in the end, they still learned about what they're purchasing, gives you a fresh breathe of confidence in the purchase at the very least or not? Some things in particular they might not have known or learned had they gone the off the shelf way.

Forced induction has come a LONG way since the old days of every having no real choice but Active Autowerke (Nothing against them, just stating there was NO ONE else outside of them at the time, until ICS and a handful of others), but as far as actual companies go, with off the shelf "kit" form available i.e - boostlogic / technique tuning, the only way to go cost 9K + Clutch, exhaust, bolt ons, gauges, water injection, dyno etc . . . Totaling 20+k for a mild 300 - 340rwhp Stage 1.5 Active kit (Speaking from experience here) or god forbid mectech or any of the other horrible productions that happened in between, sucking people between the cracks and emptying their pockets for little to no result or enjoyment.

All I'm anxious for is 380 reliable rwhp and 360 - 370ish torque at the track this summer. Absolutely can't wait

[Moreboost356]

TT is NOT a ball bearing turbo.

Corrected

[LuvMy328is]

WOW! I thought I had learned a lot from the FAQ's and stickies. This is great info ppl, keep it coming, I'll sit back, watch and learn
~Phil

[Moreboost356]

Alright, well I went back and added some more information about exhaust manifold, intake placement / fitment with various manifolds and etc . . . but alas it was deleted. It's easier to update it this way, since the post from which I was updated / editing was a bit crammed as it is anyway and I'm not sure if there's a text character limit on posts.

I wanted to expand on what I mentioned about the motor mount bracket and it's neccesity in order to run a 4.0" lower level air intake which will / would route to the base of the cone air filter mounting just behind the front bumper cover as seen in pictures of any of the "600hp club" BMWs featured on Active Autowerke's website - http://www.activeautowerke.com/600hp/main.php

You only have to do this in the scenario that:

- You are running a turbocharger with a 4.0" inlet off the front end compressor housing and have a bottom mount manifold:

A - Active Autowerke's Cast T3 flanged exhaust manifold www.activeautowerke.com - Retail: $1,300.00 / Used: Varies $350.00 - $800.00 depending on mileage and condition.
B - Cartech Cast T3 flanged (I've heard of people running this manifold in T4 flange form as well, will expand with more information about this with more research). - Retail: ??? < Will expand upon further as I find exact pricing on this unit, or unless I can find information from another member. I'm going to assume this manifold is in the same range of $800.00 - $1,000.00 of the Turbonetics / Active Autowerke's manifold.
C - Turbonetics Cast T3 flanged exhaust manifold - Retail: $757.95 + Shipping + Tax and Machining of port for 38mm Wastegate - www.turboneticsinc.com - Part number 30528.
D - 666 Fabrication bottom mount tubular T3 or T4 flanged exhaust manifold: Retail - $1,275.00 + Shipping / $1,575.00 + Shipping for same manifold in T3 or T4 flange + porting for EURO SPEC S50 cylinder head exhaust ports.
E - Boostlogic Tubular bottom mount T4 flanged exhaust manifold - Pricing has changed on this item as they've revised their earlier version of this for whatever particular reason, so be aware of this as I will find the reason for their revision and release of newer model of this same exhaust manifold.
F - TSI - See link: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=691570

This manifold is T2 flanged and is possibly not available for purchase outside of the Retailer / Vendor - More information on this per research and findings, if any.

If you are running or plan on running a top mount manifold, there are NO "Off the shelf" top mount exhaust manifolds readily available to the public outside of Speed Force Racing in California, the same builders of Pablo's E36 M3 turbo, now sporting a ball bearing Turbonetics T-66 unit and Cameron's (HighboostinM3) Top mount PT76 build. This manifold as I see it will be in production to some degree (Most likely limited trial run, limited stock) as there's no published price for this manifold, since it was a "one off" for Pablo's car, and the same for Cameron's as well. These are MADE PER ORDER PER CUSTOMER ONLY for the meantime. As you will find, any experienced fabricator will be able to produce such a manifold for you, but will only be a "one off" piece with pricing depending on the texture / quality of materials used and their base labor rate.

The top mount produced for Pablo's M3, differs from Cameron's as well, since the turbocharger actually sits on the intake manifold side of the motor as opposed to the exhaust (Or Passenger) side of the engine bay. This setup, in my opinion seems a bit odd, but is one of a kind, performs and is what Pablo himself was seeking in his final stage (For now at least) of his E36 M3 turbo, as seen in European Car magazine and www.europeancarweb.com under the "Project Car" section.

ICS Performance has been as of late producing in house top mounts as well for anyone on the East Coast that may be interested in this.

They are made to order, in house (For the meantime), and mount the turbocharger on the passenger side of the engine compartment as opposed to the Speed Force Racing manifold which seats it intake (Driver side).

I personally would go with the ICS top mount, if I were so inclined, but have not the experience of ownership / personal experience with a top mount to personally comment, merely recommend, but the goals of my build do not necessitate such a manifold since these are meant for those seeking 550+ and up in horsepower and up and / or simply can not fit their selected turbocharger of choice under the exhaust port side of the engine, where most are located.

The bottom mount location CAN however make enough room for such turbochargers capable of excess of 1000 - 1100 horsepower and close to equal torque at the motor, with an extensively re-enforced bottom end, suspension, rear subframe, differential, drivetrain as well as a massive increase in cooling capacity of the air to air (Or water to air) intercooler and larger radiator (PWR - Fluidyne).

No motor mount bracket is needed to run a top mount, but several advantages and *some* disadvantages of this method of turbocharger placement as well and will be listed in the next post.

I want and will update with part numbers for each individual publicly available exhaust manifold for reference to make it easier in the future as well as information on aftermarket intake manifolds (Example - PPF) and a listing of all available:

Wastegates - Functions, power levels, psi spring levels (What's best for your application and fitment based on hardware *Exhaust manifold and turbocharger* being used)
Blow off valves - Ahh, the almight list of the 2,000 different blow off valves you have to choose from - Form over function (Sound vs performance), pricing, fitment and purpose.
Intercoolers - Again, the almighty question (What fits, where can I get it, how much is it and what is anodizing and how does / will it help my performance and the overall look / fit / finish of the car and where can I get it done).
Fuel injectors - Every supporting vendor and retailer of injectors, sizing chart per application, pricing and more extensive explanation of fuel pressure regulators, difference in form / function and pricing as well.
Boost controllers - Manual vs Electronic, pricing, every model available - what's best for you and what your alternatives are as far as electronic and in-dash displays go.
Wideband 02 Control units - AEM Eugo, FJO, PLX, Innovative and NGK - Where to get them, pricing and of course, form over function, reviews on member allowing use of their resources posted of course as well as placement of 02 bung for wideband sensor.
Other misc. electronics - What you NEED and what can save you money by not purchasing.
Water injection kits - Pricing, availability and the choices you have (In car electronic related).
Tuning - More detailed approach to your options of factory DME tuning with reviews and testimonials from personal members + pricing.

If there's any (READILY AVAILABLE exhaust manifold(s) I've left out, please note).

Thanks,

- Nick

[BMWFanatic]

nice write up. wow, thanks for taking the time to write all of that.

seriously thanks, it was very informative. Im picking up a AA gen 3 stage 1 intercooler for $250, picking up the intercooler piping plumbed for e36, and soon the AA manifold. what are TT stage 1's exact specs if anyone knows please fill in the blanks...

turbo:
injectors:
wastegate:
BOV:
etc.

thanks again,

-Chase

[resisTm3]

turbo: T3/T4 60-1 Hybrid Turbocharger
injectors:
wastegate: External Tial Wastegate ( dont know the mm)
BOV:
etc.

thanks again,

-Chase

you can check this out at www.techniquetuning.com

[raoke]

Jumping jellybeans!!! Great info!!

[BMWFanatic]

you can check this out at www.techniquetuning.com

thanks bro

[Moreboost356]

seriously thanks, it was very informative. Im picking up a AA gen 3 stage 1 intercooler for $250, picking up the intercooler piping plumbed for e36, and soon the AA manifold. what are TT stage 1's exact specs if anyone knows please fill in the blanks...

turbo:
injectors:
wastegate:
BOV:
etc.

thanks again,

-Chase

Good find on the Active intercooler, zero worries about fitment and bolts right in!!

As far as the Technique kit goes:

Turbo - 60-1 Hybrid turbocharger:

http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=251
Priced at $688.00 + Shipping through Full-race.com

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=TBN
Priced at $715.00 through atpturbo.com for the same turbocharger, to compare price between the two, so the $27.00 you'd save would be more than enough to cover the $10 - $12.00 ground shipping or express if you wanted it sooner.

Injectors for stage 1 are 36lb. / hr. most likely - LUCAS top feed high impedance injectors and retail roughly $250.00.

If you plan on more power than 300 - 350rwhp, you will need the larger 42lb. top feed high impedance injectors and larger fuel pump. Injectors that will work and links / retailers:

A - Lucas top feed 42lb. injectors:
B - Raxetronix
C - Precision Domestic top feed, high impedance injectors
D - Ford Racing "Green Tops"

* Technique Tuning - $300.00 *Lucas*
* Boostlogic.com - $300.00 *Lucas*
* http://www.racetronix.com/621031.html - Racetronix.com - $223.94 USD
* Precision domestic top feed 42lb. high impedance injectors http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/DMIO42 - $288.00
* Ford Racing "Green Top" 42lb. / hr. injectors - http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injec...D.asp#greentop - Roughly $315.00 + Shipping (Shouldn't be much), but more than any of the aforementioned retailers pricing for these injectors.

If you want 36lb. / hr. injectors, and shy of say 325 - 340rwhp on a stock fuel pump @ no more than 8 to 10psi, that is a possibility that if you REALLY don't think you'll want anymore power than that, which would be much cheaper than a "Stage 2" 'kit' form of 42lb. injectors, lowered compression and a larger fuel pump in order to maintain stability above 400rwhp.

36lb. / hr. injectors, for the MOST parts are anywhere from $200.00 - $250.00 or less for a set of 6 balanced, high impedance top feed injectors to accomodate the factory fuel rail.

Stage 1 form you would be able to:

A - Retain your stock air mass meter with an Active Autowerke's tune (Although a larger one is recommended and necessary for Nick G. of Technique Tuning's tuning of stock DME). <<< NOTE.
B - Run an upper mount intake (Running from front end compressor housing inlet to behind passenger side headlight, as seen on a stage 1 Active Autowerke's turbo BMW or Technique Tuning).
C - Run the smaller, 36lb. injectors as opposed to the 42lb. injectors
D - POSSIBLY not have to "open the motor up" for lowered compression
*Note* I say POSSIBLY, I have no idea the condition of the internals of your motor and would advise to at the very least replace the factory head gasket with another one or go with a multi-layered steel head gasket in factory thickness. A factory head gasket would be fine for 6lbs. of boost - low boost setting and 8 to 9 - possibly 10psi depending on the tuner. I would say 9psi max on a stock head gasket, 36lb. injectors, stock fuel pump and stock air mass meter.

You could do a full stage 1 for much less, have it tuned and ready to go and save for the "stage 2" level, just be sure what power you want, start small and see how the car takes the introduction of the power, see how it holds up and if everything's "A-O-K", save up over time and go Stage 2

It breaks down like this (Stage 1 form)

You've already found a manifold and intercooler, so you need:

1 - Turbocharger (Pricing listed) - Average price of $650.00 - $700.00+ depending on specs, retail price and shipping.
2 - Injectors - 36lb. / hr. - $249.90 for Precision domestic top feed high impedance injectors on www.nolimitmotorsport.com - I'm sure I can find these for less that WILL work with your car, fit the stock fuel rail and come balanced and ready to install. Lucas 36lb. / hour are listed for $250.00 for a set of 8, so give or take that equates to roughly $225.00 for a balanced set of 6.
3 - Tial 38mm Wastegate, only way to go for the money, quality and performance, period. There are so many ridiculous setups that will net you zero more hp / tq. and / or claimed "response" in your 8 to 10psi system than the Tial will. www.extremepsi.com - They finally came down on their pricing for aluminum and steel flanges, so pricing total is:
Tial 38mm Wastegate (0.xx psi spring - this is dependant on how much boost you want to run, if you want to just run 8 for now on high boost and 6 low, the 0.6psi spring would be adequete for now, if you ever want more boost though, say anything from 10 to 20, you will NEED a larger spring). Pricing on the same when you buy the wastegate the first time, but additional and individual if you ever want a different one, keep this in mind.

Tial 38mm Wastegate - $210.00 w/ 0.6psi spring
Aluminum or Steel threaded or "straight thru" flanges - $7 - $9.00 a piece X 2 (Inlet and outlet flange + Wastegate comes with gaskets, so you don't need to purchase separately) - $14.00 - $18.00.

Blow off valve - The by-pass valve used w/ the Technique Kit is not specificaly listed, but the Turbosmart "Plumb-back" bypass valve of their "sleeper series" is priced accordingly at $190.00 and recirculates to the intake system as opposed to venting to atmosphere - YOU DO NOT WANT TO VENT TO ATMOSPHERE WITH AN AIR MASS METER.

The pricing of this is typical of a good aftermarket bypass / blow off valve and does not come with a flange, factor in the flange and you're at $220.00 from www.horsepowerfreaks.com.

The flange will have to be welded to the "Cold piping" of the intercooler piping from the throttle body to the first 90 degree aluminum or steel bend going to the first inlet of the front mount air to air intercooler. Fabricating of a cold pipe from throttle body to 90 degree to inlet of front mount intercooler - $100 - 120.00 with welding of blow off valve flange included, depending on where you go, what they charge and if you're using aluminum or quality grade steel for the piping. Aluminum is cheaper, and lighter. Aluminum flanges are also cheaper than steel flanges, so keep this in mind as well.

Turbocharger - $700.00
Wastegate - $235.00 shipped
Blow off valve - $225.00
Injectors (Stage 1) - $225.00 - $250.00 Lucas / Precision
Larger 3.5" High flow air mass meter w/ Plug and play harness - $350.00 - $400.00 (Closer to $400.00 complete).

Total (Without knowing what you are paying for an Active Autowerke's manifold and intercooler) - $1,785.00 + Tax and shipping.

P.S - If you haven't purchased the Active front mount intercooler, would you consider a Precision unit, new from any retailer for $229.00? Just a thought, I hate used parts is all.

Contact board member ebydrc awesome guy to deal with, great prices and he's a supporting vendor / owner of vpfab.com

He can give you a complete and compiled list, made to edit or order to your liking I.E - Multiple orders if you can't get everything right now.

For O.E replacement parts, stick with www.pelicanparts.com or www.bavauto.com - Both GREAT supporting retailers of OE and aftermarket BMW equipment / parts.

Contact Techno550 as well @ www.racersmarket.net for oil feed and return hardware, good pricing.