Good things to come for us SC CF guys...

[marc1119]

Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS

Thats edxactly what I was told.... so I did not want to coment and stir up any issues.

Enlighten me..please....
I am in NO WAY a T trim expert....I only had one 10 minute conversation with Vortech, and I am not saying what I was told was accurate..
If a T trim at 46,000 RPM makes more CFM than a V1 or V2 at 46,000 RPM, that is great...I just was told NO..by Vortech.....

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by marc1119

Enlighten me..please....
I am in NO WAY a T trim expert....I only had one 10 minute conversation with Vortech, and I am not saying what I was told was accurate..
If a T trim at 46,000 RPM makes more CFM than a V1 or V2 at 46,000 RPM, that is great...I just was told NO..by Vortech.....

I was told the same thing. I WILL not get into this b/c #1 im super busy today... and its not my priority today, besides Philip has the same Map that I have. Try studying it and see what you come up with... im sure you can find time in your day, we would all appreciate it.

[marc1119]

Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS

I was told the same thing. I WILL not get into this b/c #1 im super busy today... and its not my priority today, besides Philip has the same Map that I have. Try studying it and see what you come up with... im sure you can find time in your day, we would all appreciate it.

last question, since you are busy...
Vortech told you ALSO that there is NO ADVANTAGE of a T trim to an S trim below 50,000 RPM, except for durability..correct?
Because that is what I am basing my info on, and my RPM calculations on...

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by marc1119

But Phil..isn't the majority of the advantage of the T1 happen after 50,000 RPM....?

That is the way I see it -- I agree and would not put a T Trim on an E36 M3 and spin it to any less than 50,000 rpm because as you point out, the advantages, if any, would be slight.

But this thread is mostly about an E36 M3 modified with lower CR so it can run more boost. The blower has to spin faster to make more boost, and the S Trim is not rated to spin any faster. The T Trim offers up another 5000 rpm, which might equate to the kind of boost increase we see when going from 45,000 to 50,000 rpm with the S Trim. I'd be hoping for 16-18 psi at 55,000 rpm.

Another point you brought earlier in the thread also comes into play -- the T Trim is a V1 based blower with straight gears and thus uses a 3.45 step up ratio. That means a bigger pulley ratio is needed to get to the 55,000 rpm impeller limit. A 6.00/2.60 combination might work with an 8 rib, but if there is slippage, it might take a 6.25 or 6.5 or larger crank pulley (clearance might be an issue at some point for those with fat radiators), but I am sure all this can be figured out along with other things like bigger injectors and tuning.

I am watching and waiting. I am also still hoping for some data on squish -- the tuning differences required for, say a thick HG S52 with 9.5:1 CR and an S52 with 9.5:1 pistons and no other changes (probably impossible since anyone building an engine will likely do some head work). Based on the dynos posted in the first page of this thread, though, the problem seems minor if it is a problem at all.

Philip Bradley

[highboostingm3]

You guys are talking about the wrong superchargers.

This is the right frame of mind right here! Oh and Stimpee...he talks about air-air versus air-water!

[DIRT11]

Originally Posted by highboostingm3

You guys are talking about the wrong superchargers.

This is the right frame of mind right here! Oh and Stimpee...he talks about air-air versus air-water!

Now where could I fit that under my crowded 540i hood.HMMMM,

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by highboostingm3

You guys are talking about the wrong superchargers.

This is the right frame of mind right here! Oh and Stimpee...he talks about air-air versus air-water!

The guy does not even know whether the intercooler is one, two or three rows. I did note that they used the V2 SQ S Trim on the new Corvette. Its a high CR motor that runs high rpm, but they keep the boost to 7 psi so the impeller speed is not an issue. They also discussed the noise of the V1 based blowers like the T Trim.

Philip Bradley

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by carcrazed4life

. . . .

1) Even with the boost pump on the fuel side, I was still maxing out my injectors at the limiter.

. . . .

The boost a pump will not prevent you from going to 100% duty cycle. All it will do is increase voltage which increases pump output. At some point, it can increase pump output to the point that it overpowers the stock fuel pressure regulator, which will increase fuel pressure and thus increase fuel flow. That can be tricky to calculate, but you might figure it out through trial and error. It is also possible that the regulator would not last.

You could go to an aftermarket regulator, and raise fuel pressure and then scale it down in the software. NickG already does this to some degree when he uses the Walbro pump that overpowers the stock regulator at low rpm and that would otherwise cause the motor to run rich.

You could also go to larger injectors. I don't think 52 lb injectors are really that big for a 6 cylinder for tuning with the factory ECU for a smooth idle even if they are high impedence. I think it would be pretty easy to scale the fuel part of the programming accordingly. This would seem to me to be the way to go.

Philip Bradley

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The boost a pump will not prevent you from going to 100% duty cycle. All it will do is increase voltage which increases pump output. At some point, it can increase pump output to the point that it overpowers the stock fuel pressure regulator, which will increase fuel pressure and thus increase fuel flow. That can be tricky to calculate, but you might figure it out through trial and error. It is also possible that the regulator would not last.

You could go to an aftermarket regulator, and raise fuel pressure and then scale it down in the software. NickG already does this to some degree when he uses the Walbro pump that overpowers the stock regulator at low rpm and that would otherwise cause the motor to run rich.

You could also go to larger injectors. I don't think 52 lb injectors are really that big for a 6 cylinder for tuning with the factory ECU for a smooth idle even if they are high impedence. I think it would be pretty easy to scale the fuel part of the programming accordingly. This would seem to me to be the way to go.

Philip Bradley

I have never seen a Walbro 255 lph ruin a regulator unless the diaphram is weak it may cause a rise in fuel pressure. I have tested this theory over and over, 2nd.. a boost a pump once hooked up to the fuel pump via power and ground will automatically raise the voltage from 12 volts to 14 volts without adjusting the idle.

[Jim M3]

My AA tune didn't work with the Walboro even after putting in a new regulator.

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by Jim M3

My AA tune didn't work with the Walboro even after putting in a new regulator.

Sounds like a first to me, unless Nick's software automatically adapts to such minor issues without causing issues elsewhere.

[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by Jim M3

My AA tune didn't work with the Walboro even after putting in a new regulator.

Mine was just richer across the board when I swapped the walbro in. Marco advised me to take it out as it would eventually mess up the fuel pressure regulator as it did in your car.

[carcrazed4life]

Is it just Jim's Car that experienced this with an AA tune, or have others with AA Tunes experienced this as well?

I for one have never had issues, but my tune has always been NickG and I've had the Walbro in there since it went to George.

Just curious thats all.

[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by carcrazed4life

Is it just Jim's Car that experienced this with an AA tune, or have others with AA Tunes experienced this as well?

I for one have never had issues, but my tune has always been NickG and I've had the Walbro in there since it went to George.

Just curious thats all.

Marco told me that Angelo experienced the same thing. I found it odd since Nick has so many turbo kits running around with the walbro and I haven't heard of any problems with them. George also tells me that he has never had a problem with them.

[Jim M3]

I installed an entirely new fuel system components, new filter, regulator, pump and it ran like crap. The car was pig rich and idled pretty badly on my car.

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by Jim M3

I installed an entirely new fuel system components, new filter, regulator, pump and it ran like crap. The car was pig rich and idled pretty badly on my car.

It must be some of differences of the 2 tunes.

[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by Jim M3

I installed an entirely new fuel system components, new filter, regulator, pump and it ran like crap. The car was pig rich and idled pretty badly on my car.

I believe its because the AA tune is supposed to run on the oem pump. When I was on the dyno the first couple of times, George gave Karl a ring to ask why the car was detonating up-top. Being that I had the original pump in my car, he suggested that I install a walbro. Afterwards, I was told to remove it and it would cause a conflict since the tune wasn't designed with it.

[highboostingm3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The guy does not even know whether the intercooler is one, two or three rows. I did note that they used the V2 SQ S Trim on the new Corvette. Its a high CR motor that runs high rpm, but they keep the boost to 7 psi so the impeller speed is not an issue. They also discussed the noise of the V1 based blowers like the T Trim.

Philip Bradley

Yeah that is sad that he didn't know. It wasn't the blower on the Corvette that I was talking about, however as long as more power is made, I guess psi is relative like with a turbo. With a very large blower you flow more air at less psi. More power is the ultimate goal, not psi.

The Stimpee part was only because Stimpee had mentioned in another thread how he thinks air-water will always dominate over air-air in a blower setup where someone else argued air-air is always better. This guy agrees with Stimpee so I was just pointing it out since a spokesperson for Vortech agrees with Stimpee which is sorta cool.

[pbonsalb]

NickG has stated in this forum that the Walbro overpressures the stock regulator slightly at idle. His tune takes this overpressure into account:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ht=walbro+nick

Oother tunes that do not may run rich enough at idle to cause problems, which seems to be the case from what several others have reported in this forum.

Philip Bradley

[highboostingm3]

Originally Posted by m3jasper

I believe its because the AA tune is supposed to run on the oem pump. When I was on the dyno the first couple of times, George gave Karl a ring to ask why the car was detonating up-top. Being that I had the original pump in my car, he suggested that I install a walbro. Afterwards, I was told to remove it and it would cause a conflict since the tune wasn't designed with it.

Maybe it changes flow characteristics as if you were to install different size injectors. If the tune was designed for one thing, then changing that thing(fuel supply hardware) would require a custom retune for that specific hardware?

[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

NickG has stated in this forum that the Walbro overpressures the stock regulator slightly at idle. His tune takes this overpressure into account:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ht=walbro+nick

Oother tunes that do not may run rich enough at idle to cause problems, which seems to be the case from what several others have reported in this forum.

Philip Bradley

Good to know.

Originally Posted by highboostingm3

Maybe it changes flow characteristics as if you were to install different size injectors. If the tune was designed for one thing, then changing that thing(fuel supply hardware) would require a custom retune for that specific hardware?

Makes complete sense. Thats why I found it odd that I was told to keep the OEM pump but when the car went on the dyno and detonated, Karl said to install the walbro.

[Eric BMW]

Superchargers are confusing

[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by Eric BMW

Superchargers are confusing

This one is for George and Kurt (Paradigmguy)...superchargers are cool, turbos are gay!

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by m3jasper

This one is for George and Kurt (Paradigmguy)...superchargers are cool, turbos are gay!

Hey Kurt lets get him.

[ParadigmGuy]

Originally Posted by m3jasper

This one is for George and Kurt (Paradigmguy)...superchargers are cool, turbos are gay!

How is it that turbos are gay but it's superchargers that suck?