Hypothetical - 535 Supercharged built to order

[Redfive]

I was sitting at work today trying to figure out how sell all the spare parts I have and actually make enough money to pay for some more mods on my car.
The big ticket item is my supercharger setup, which when I try to sell it always generates lots of interest but no buyers. What if I where to build a car using all my parts, would anyone be interested? If so, how much would you be willing to pay for such a car, knowing that if you where to do it your self it would cost you $25-30k

I figure the specs would be as follows.
1989-93 535i 5speed.
Probably with 180,000+ since that seems to be what's out there.

Engine:
Metal Headgasket with APR studs
36# injectors
TCD FI chip
Split-Sec MAF
Procharger P1SC
Spearco Intercooler
HKS bypass valve
Custom radiator with fan delete
8mm Bavauto Plug wires
RD headers
Dinan HD clutch
Two stage boost controller
Approximate 300hp/tq at the wheels
Some sort of high flow exhaust*

Brakes/Suspension
850i front brakes*
SS lines*
Bilstein/Eibach Prokit*

Exterior
Euro h4 hi/low single headlights
Brake ducts*
Possibly some nice 17" wheels
smoked tail lights*

Interior
Refreshed leather

*parts I don't presently have but would be included as part of the setup.

The parts I've listed cost me about $20k to collect. The labor rate at most shops would cost most people about $10k to get the car assembled. Plus there is the original cost of the car.

[Antrieb]

Personally, I wouldn't buy it unless it was around 7-8k, which it won't be.

BTW, I saw your car over the summer at Lime Rock, very nice

[NikosX]

how fast is that sob?

[Redfive]

how fast is that sob?

Fast enough to hit 135 on the front straight of Lime Rock and enough torque to do the whole track in 4th gear (to keep from lighting the tires up in the turns).

[TC535i]

Hey Justin... Decided not to drop $$ to fix the 535i now... buying a board member's 95 540i/6 instead.

Good luck selling Red Five!

[Antrieb]

Fast enough to hit 135 on the front straight of Lime Rock and enough torque to do the whole track in 4th gear (to keep from lighting the tires up in the turns).

And I can vouche for that

The Red Five was insane, you are a great driver too.

[Redfive]

Hey Justin... Decided not to drop $$ to fix the 535i now... buying a board member's 95 540i/6 instead.

Good luck selling Red Five!

Just for clarification, I'm not selling redfive. I'm thinking about building a comparable car from all my spare parts and selling it.

I need to generate some cash this spring. I want to do about $5000 worth of work on my 5 (twin-disc clutch, flare the rear fenders, upgrade to 18" wheels and to go from 255 in the rear to 295) and I need to drum up some money so I can buy an engagement ring. So I was hoping to hear $15k for such a car.

[Zackb911]

You would be better off selling off the "kit" or components on ebay... Cars are almost always worth more parted out or in parts.

[Redfive]

And I can vouche for that

The Red Five was insane, you are a great driver too.

Were you at the CCA driver's school? Did you see the spins? That's what happens when you headgasket fails and pressurizes your cooling system causing it to overheat and dump coolant all over the rear wheels. I'm very lucky it happened in big bend and not on the front straight. For the record I was able to drive the car home.
It was a unique experience driving that car on the track, because I've never had to deal with too much power. Even with the quaife, street tires and that cold track the car was all over the place. I applied the power too soon on the uphill and slid the car sideways into West Bend. The car needs a lot more tire.

[Jcbe34]

I think you'd be better off selling a supercharger kit

[Redfive]

I think you'd be better off selling a supercharger kit

I tried to sell the supercharger as a kit. For nearly 3 years. $3500 for nearly $8000 in parts. I've even offered to install it. Lots of interest, no buyers. I figured that maybe if someone saw it running on a car, they would be more interested. How about the above spec'd car, with only the supercharger as an upgrade for $8k?

[Zackb911]

I seriously doubt you would get it... Look at the turbo 535 that has been trying to sell on eBay for awhile. Its a got a recent rebuilt engine etc and I dont think it broke $6K this time around. I honestly don't see you getting $3500 either... If you can sell the parts off individually you might get your money back otherwise I would put the kit on ebay and post the auction link on all the forums. It may be $8K in parts and worth $3500 to you, but in reality it is worth no more than the market will bear.... If you try putting it in a car it will just cost you too much $$ and time and not be worth it...

Good luck either way

[323I Junkie]

youll never get that
nothin but love man, but speed parts are dime on the dollar used. Try to get much more than that is pissing in the wind. I bought smokes longtube hooker headers with equal length tubes (about $450 bucks) for 35 dollars at a awp meet

TCD's turbo prices are too close to your supercharger prices. People are forfeting almost 100 Hp and certainly some fuel economy.

If you want to sell it, honestly consider between $1500 and $2000

[Antrieb]

Were you at the CCA driver's school? Did you see the spins? That's what happens when you headgasket fails and pressurizes your cooling system causing it to overheat and dump coolant all over the rear wheels. I'm very lucky it happened in big bend and not on the front straight. For the record I was able to drive the car home.
It was a unique experience driving that car on the track, because I've never had to deal with too much power. Even with the quaife, street tires and that cold track the car was all over the place. I applied the power too soon on the uphill and slid the car sideways into West Bend. The car needs a lot more tire.

I didn't drive this year, I decided to watch each event instead. So yeah, I saw it

[Redfive]

youll never get that
nothin but love man, but speed parts are dime on the dollar used. Try to get much more than that is pissing in the wind. I bought smokes longtube hooker headers with equal length tubes (about $450 bucks) for 35 dollars at a awp meet

TCD's turbo prices are too close to your supercharger prices. People are forfeting almost 100 Hp and certainly some fuel economy.

If you want to sell it, honestly consider between $1500 and $2000

Even though I need the money, I don't want to do that. I value your opinions, but I spent too much time developing this system to just give it away. If I had a little more money I could have finished developing it and make it a viable alternative to the turbo. I'd rather hang-on to it and eventually install it on a car. I thought about selling it piece meal, but that's a lot of work. Plus I wouldn't be able to do anything with the bracket and piping. I guess I could just sell the intercooler, supercharger, bypass valve, FMU, injectors. That should net me about $2k and I could reassemble most of it later if I wanted to.
The supercharger did 300rwhp@7psi w/ a piggy back computer. That same spec engine with lower compression pulled 340rwhp at 10psi with the TCDS2 and a DTAfast computer (Granted it would be more if the clutch would hold...) Its not giving anything up to the TCD setup because it can run at 14psi. And since it includes an intercooler it would have to be compared to a $5500 stage 2 setup, not the $3850 stage 1. I never got around to finish tuning it, but I wouldn't be surprised if could 350-400rwhp at 14psi.
I'm getting about 14-15mpg with mixed driving on my TCD setup. I was getting 20-25mpg with the supercharger. Why? because of smaller injectors and the fact the supercharger made so much low end torque I could start in 3rd gear. The supercharger gave a much quicker hit of power, but the turbo is easier to live with. The supercharger is also very loud.

[Redfive]

I didn't drive this year, I decided to watch each event instead. So yeah, I saw it

Man, it took me 2 hours for my hands to stop shaking after that. The car scared the crap out of me. When I got home I almost tore up my One Lap plans because of that expeience. Not neseccarily because of the spin, but how unsettled the car felt hurdling down the track not knowing if it would come unglued. I need to bring back the giant wing, since its appropiate now.

I figure to make the car really solid it would need the following upgrades.
Full Cage
Advanced-design shocks and 800lb springs (presently 550)
275s on the front
315s on the rear
To fit those tires on the car, the body would have to be widen 1" on each side in the front and 2.5" in the rear.
Twin-disc clutch
All I have to do is find some sponsors willing to give me the $15k I need to get this done.

[Antrieb]

On second thought, I might be interested in it if you install it on a car. I could probably sell my 530i for 6k right now, what would you be asking for the supercharged 535iM with all the goodies you mentioned?

[clevertd]

I've started a turbo fund for my car, but I would definitely be interested in putting the money towards the s/c kit. I was looking to get around 300/300 as I've experienced my roommates S/C Mustang GT putting down 370/375. Almost makes me want to forgo my trip to Italy this summer... However, in my opinion, I think a kit would do well as opposed to a whole car. Good luck with it and I'll be keeping an eye on what you do with it.

EDIT: I'm also fairly certain that my roommates S/C is a Procharger P1... imagine that!

[323I Junkie]

Even though I need the money, I don't want to do that. I value your opinions, but I spent too much time developing this system to just give it away. If I had a little more money I could have finished developing it and make it a viable alternative to the turbo. I'd rather hang-on to it and eventually install it on a car. I thought about selling it piece meal, but that's a lot of work. Plus I wouldn't be able to do anything with the bracket and piping. I guess I could just sell the intercooler, supercharger, bypass valve, FMU, injectors. That should net me about $2k and I could reassemble most of it later if I wanted to.
The supercharger did 300rwhp@7psi w/ a piggy back computer. That same spec engine with lower compression pulled 340rwhp at 10psi with the TCDS2 and a DTAfast computer (Granted it would be more if the clutch would hold...) Its not giving anything up to the TCD setup because it can run at 14psi. And since it includes an intercooler it would have to be compared to a $5500 stage 2 setup, not the $3850 stage 1. I never got around to finish tuning it, but I wouldn't be surprised if could 350-400rwhp at 14psi.
I'm getting about 14-15mpg with mixed driving on my TCD setup. I was getting 20-25mpg with the supercharger. Why? because of smaller injectors and the fact the supercharger made so much low end torque I could start in 3rd gear. The supercharger gave a much quicker hit of power, but the turbo is easier to live with. The supercharger is also very loud.

See now you're getting aggressive, anbd thats what you needed to do in your first advertisement. Unfortunately, Im not sure what you mean by "piggyback" computer. Ive never heard of one for the motronix, but I learn new every day.

When people, including myself, hear supercharger, they think gas guzzler. Maybe its from the dozens of Vortec mustangs Ive been in contact with, or who have gone up to a turbo kit. Or vortec powered trucks that go down to 6 mpg and the like.

If, at the top of this thread, you had done a systematic version of this write up, it might be different. The second bad move was mentioning , although you're an honest guy, why are you selling it? Did you go up to a turbo kit, or why did you change to a turbo.

see I might be interested in it, but Im a turbo guy. I need such a kit for my e23. changing some piping is no big deal. Give me some reasons to go from turbo scream to supercharger whine. My L7 is an auto, which is more of a supercharger setup anyway.

and how come TCD uses so much larger injectors?

speak to me

[Redfive]

See now you're getting aggressive, anbd thats what you needed to do in your first advertisement. Unfortunately, Im not sure what you mean by "piggyback" computer. Ive never heard of one for the motronix, but I learn new every day.

When people, including myself, hear supercharger, they think gas guzzler. Maybe its from the dozens of Vortec mustangs Ive been in contact with, or who have gone up to a turbo kit. Or vortec powered trucks that go down to 6 mpg and the like.

If, at the top of this thread, you had done a systematic version of this write up, it might be different. The second bad move was mentioning , although you're an honest guy, why are you selling it? Did you go up to a turbo kit, or why did you change to a turbo.

see I might be interested in it, but Im a turbo guy. I need such a kit for my e23. changing some piping is no big deal. Give me some reasons to go from turbo scream to supercharger whine. My L7 is an auto, which is more of a supercharger setup anyway.

and how come TCD uses so much larger injectors?

speak to me

The piggy back computer was a Spilt-Second MAF conversion, which changes the signal the ECU gets to add or remove fuel.
My TCD setup uses 55# injectors because I'm going for big numbers and my particular tuner (the one who setup the DTAfast ECU) doesn't like adding fuel pressure.
Any vehicle will get bad gas mileage when you stay on the throttle all the time. But because of the torque I found myself driving around in a higher gear than normal. I also did it to minimize the noise. I should have said that your results may vary. Basically I didn't see a drop mpg with the supercharger and my mixed driving consists mostly of driving to highways. With the turbo I noticed an immediate difference. 10 gallons (@$3.40/gall) was taking me 80 miles. It got somewhat better as the car was tuned but I still notice the gauge moving while idling.
I'm selling the setup because I switched from the supercharger to turbo. The reason I did so was money. At the time I was supposed to get a great deal from a friend. A front mount intercooler, manifold, turbo, pistons, rings, and rods for $2500. I couldn't pass it up. To finish doing what I wanted to do to the supercharger was going to cost me about $10k (convert the intercooler to an air to water, add a stand-alone computer, and rebuild the engine). Then I figured that I could sell the supercharger (and some other parts) to pay for a new engine and the whole thing would basically be a wash money wise. That never happened and the guy disappeared with half my money (although a year later I did get some of the parts). Then Todd came along and offered me a deal, since I plan on doing the One Lap again, and the idea of using my friends turbo went out the window because the TCD setup didn't require any welding or fabricating. The whole time I was committed to selling the supercharger to pay for the mods I had started. So 2 years after I spent $10k doing the supercharger, I spent the same amount on a turbo and an engine. But it still didn't run right so this year I did the ECU upgrade. In the meantime the only thing I've sold was the old engine, the exhaust and a set of tires.
Most people seem to lose interest when I tell them the setup requires additional tuning. I say that because I don't want anyone blowing up their engine because they did something wrong or their car is slightly different than mine.
The turbo whistles as it spools up and then it becomes a big whoosh. The supercharge whistles at idle and then make a whoosh. The supercharger just does it 4 times louder. The idle whistle you can hear blocks away (although if you raise your idle to 900rpm it goes away). The whoosh if deafening. My g/f thought the supercharger was cooler, but she hasn't riden in the car since I finally got the system running 100%.
Unfortunately I don't have any video of the car running with the blower, beside a dyno video.

[323I Junkie]

well, you have grabbed my curiosity. Wheter I could deal with the tradional supercharger whine is something I need to think about. Tuning is going to appen any time you add cam, compression, nitrous or FI. Your a good man to say it, but damn...people should just figure that out. A dyno with a good wideband at the altitude is golden.

the low RPM thing is what has me interested...I am definetly going turbo on the 535, but the L7 I was thinking of a custom twin turbo setup..very small turbos and about 300 whp....ths may be an economically viable alternative to having a 185-211 HP engine in a 4200 pound seven series with a 3 to one diff

[Redfive]

well, you have grabbed my curiosity. Wheter I could deal with the tradional supercharger whine is something I need to think about. Tuning is going to appen any time you add cam, compression, nitrous or FI. Your a good man to say it, but damn...people should just figure that out. A dyno with a good wideband at the altitude is golden.

the low RPM thing is what has me interested...I am definetly going turbo on the 535, but the L7 I was thinking of a custom twin turbo setup..very small turbos and about 300 whp....ths may be an economically viable alternative to having a 185-211 HP engine in a 4200 pound seven series with a 3 to one diff

When I designed the system, I set it up to deliver 7psi as quickly as possible. To do that I set the pulleys up to produce 14psi at 6000rpm, then using the bypass valve I limited the boost to 7psi. This produced the desired result. In addition, the blower is huge so it moves a larger volume of air than my turbo does at the same pressure rating. It would probably like the auto gearbox because the power would be more linear and spend more time in the power zone. As a plus the M30b34 has an 8 to 1 CR so you can run lots of boost.
At first I was surprised by the number of people who though that you can just throw this system or any system onto a car and expect that it wouldn't require additional tuning. Maybe with big tuners but not with custom jobs. Even the TCD setups work so much better when tuned. My APR stage 3 A4, to me doesn't feel like it's tuned properly, and APR is a big tuner with a good rep. They certainly left it with a safe tune. If I had the money I would get it customed tuned, but in the meantime, i just drive it like it is and don't complain.

[Dave Whyte]

GUys if youre considering the turbo route I would research Miller Performance Cars. Ive been so impressed with their work building my 500+ bhp e23 745i monster, I'm sending them my e34 for the same treatment. They have a ton of experience with this kind of power in a reliable package. I like the factory looking parts as well.

[323I Junkie]

their website doesnt reveal much