TRM stage 1 turbo dyno results

[techno550]

Rafa's car made it to the dyno today.
Previous thread here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=578916

The boost controller seems to be the weak link at present. (well, that and the clutch, but more on that later.)

The dyno as usual builds *different* load than would be seen in real life, and that led to some interesting results.

There has been some discussion on what the stock clutch will hold, and this is a completely stock M3 clutch. We had brief moments of slip on the dyno right before 4k rpm. Luckly it caught. ~400 rwtq is a good *limit* for a stock clutch.

The boost controller wouldn't hold constant boost to redline. It would peak and then taper. The boost controller is a cheap bleed type, and perhaps a restrictor inline would have helped, but I think a better boost controller is the more sensible answer. The graphs are also quite different than the "feel" of the car on the street from 5k to redline. On the street, the car keeps pulling hard (or harder).

The turbo setup itself is essentially the stage 1 configuration, but the boost was pushed slightly past what the kit was really intended to do. The first pull was made at 12 psi on pump gas. Boost tapered slightly (to around 10-11 up top) on this pull. The next two pulls were done with race gas and more boost. Peak being ~15 psi, but tapering to around 11 up top. Again, we suspect the boost controller here, as on the road it will make more boost at higher RPM's. Those extra 4 psi would make a massive difference in power as well.

*stock* boost is designed to be ~9psi for pump gas and stock compression.

[techno550]

pump gas pull.

[highboostingm3]

ummm...near TT #s for how much? Good GOD!

Congratulations!

[Darth Maul]

crazy, that sounds like a sick set up and seems to be very reliable.

[Shuasha]

ummm...near TT #s for how much? Good GOD!

Congratulations!

Nowhere near TT Stage 1. 341/334 on 12 psi isn't the same as TT 8.5 psi and 340ish whp/tq.

Good numbers, but not the same.

[highboostingm3]

The FI noobs are soooooooooooooooo lucky right now! When I got my M3 in 2001 and wanted to mod turbo it...I had AA or Mechtech. I had no clue and chose Mechtech. AA wouldn't have been much better with the Stage I Mitsu turbo setup and that was like $9000 starting at the time.

Now you guys have Techno550 and this kit that will have to be less than the TT kit. How much less I don't know but holy shinkle...he sure hit the tuning right on the head! SNAP! Man you noobs are so lucky is all I can say!

[highboostingm3]

Nowhere near TT Stage 1. 341/334 on 12 psi isn't the same as TT 8.5 psi and 340ish whp/tq.

Good numbers, but not the same.

I thought pump gas plot was 9psi. Guess they should have labeled each dyno sheet so no confusion. Oops...well if it was 12psi then that is definitely different. I wonder why it's not as efficient. That is a lot of psi. What is the CR on this motor? Still that is a big difference.

[RJ's325ITS]

I was going to make a little video of the hole day but, my camcorder is acting up, all I got was 30 sec. of video out of a hole tape..... So here is a couple of pics out of that 30 sec video

[dinans3m3]

Nowhere near TT Stage 1. 341/334 on 12 psi isn't the same as TT 8.5 psi and 340ish whp/tq.

Good numbers, but not the same.

i may be wrong but the pump gas pull seems to be on the stock 9psi as noted. The other 429rwtq pull was on 15psi and race gas. Theres too much of a difference for race gas to be such a deciding factor of 50+rwhp and 90+rwtq. Either way nice job on the kit Mike. BTW nice evil twin Rafa..

[RJ's325ITS]

What is the CR on this motor?

10.5:1 (engine has never been open)

[Shuasha]

i may be wrong but the pump gas pull seems to be on the stock 9psi as noted. The other 429rwtq pull was on 15psi and race gas. Theres too much of a difference for race gas to be such a deciding factor of 50+rwhp and 90+rwtq. Either way nice job on the kit Mike. BTW nice evil twin Rafa..

Techno said that he was running 12 psi (tapering to 10 or 11) on the first pull and 15 (11 on top) for the 2nd and 3rd pulls. If you look at the pull #'s on the dyno's you can correlate them.

[Juicy Double]

Nice numbers!!

Price?

and...

is the second plot 9 or 12psi?

[dredder]

Nice numbers!!

Price?

and...

is the second plot 9 or 12psi?

any AFR reading?

[bmwperson]

that exhaust tip looks funky :evil

[RJ's325ITS]

any AFR reading?

I record the 2nd pull and the 3rd one in my lm1, So I got all in Logworks, I did not feel like paying an extra $100 to know something that I alreday know...

that exhaust tip looks funky :evil

What tip, that is just the pipe, I still have not find a tip that I like.. I think the white glaze makes it look HOT

[Darth Maul]

are you using the euro/540 hfm or the porsche 993tt hfm?

[techno550]

The boost run in the first dyno on pump gas was ~12 psi. The kit is designed for ~9psi though.
The turbo was selected for its responsiveness and drivability. It was intended to be a low boost setup with virtually zero lag and good drivability. It was never expected that it'd be pushed in this direction. Bigger numbers on *lower boost* would be possible with a different turbocharger for sure. The boost number itself is just that, just a number. Sure, a more efficient system would make bigger numbers.... and have more lag, and less drivability, etc...

The purpose of the "stage 1" kit is to enhance the daily driver experience.

If you look at the above graphs, especially the 3rd pull where the run started at 1600 RPM, you'll see that the car is instantly in boost. It makes the same torque at 2000 RPM as the twinscrew and just goes up from there.

If we can get boost to sit at a nice stable number and not drop off, the peak numbers would be better, but it was the torque this system was designed for, and I think it hit those. A different boost controller, and if the purpose of this system continues to go in this direction, either a different exhaust housing, or the stage 2 turbo would be in order.

The boost drop off up top is very characteristic of the bleed type boost controller. A 4psi swing is a big chunk of power. So fixing that and heading back to the dyno might be in order.

[Matt]

The boost drop off up top is very characteristic of the bleed type boost controller. A 4psi swing is a big chunk of power. So fixing that and heading back to the dyno might be in order.

Would fixing that mean an electronic boost controler or a different type of manual valve or what?

[Goofynick6]

That is insane how quick the boost is and it still makes that kind of power! Congrats..what specs are the turbo?

Michael..PM'ing you about a part.

Nick

[and1c]

Rafa's car made it to the dyno today.
Previous thread here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=578916

The boost controller seems to be the weak link at present. (well, that and the clutch, but more on that later.)

The dyno as usual builds *different* load than would be seen in real life, and that led to some interesting results.

There has been some discussion on what the stock clutch will hold, and this is a completely stock M3 clutch. We had brief moments of slip on the dyno right before 4k rpm. Luckly it caught. ~400 rwtq is a good *limit* for a stock clutch.

The boost controller wouldn't hold constant boost to redline. It would peak and then taper. The boost controller is a cheap bleed type, and perhaps a restrictor inline would have helped, but I think a better boost controller is the more sensible answer. The graphs are also quite different than the "feel" of the car on the street from 5k to redline. On the street, the car keeps pulling hard (or harder).

The turbo setup itself is essentially the stage 1 configuration, but the boost was pushed slightly past what the kit was really intended to do. The first pull was made at 12 psi on pump gas. Boost tapered slightly (to around 10-11 up top) on this pull. The next two pulls were done with race gas and more boost. Peak being ~15 psi, but tapering to around 11 up top. Again, we suspect the boost controller here, as on the road it will make more boost at higher RPM's. Those extra 4 psi would make a massive difference in power as well.

*stock* boost is designed to be ~9psi for pump gas and stock compression.

Great work Mike

[techno550]

Would fixing that mean an electronic boost controler or a different type of manual valve or what?

Different manual could be one fix. The one I built for the 5 series worked quite well, but took a lot of playing around to get right.
An electronic *should* be a better fix, but the aftermarket ones like the Profec B spec II I had suck ballz.

I'd prefer to just design an electronic one, but I really don't have the time right now.

That is insane how quick the boost is and it still makes that kind of power! Congrats..what specs are the turbo?

Michael..PM'ing you about a part.

Nick

T3/T04 with intake A/R of .50, 52mm inducer and 76mm exducer. a .63 hot housing, and a 50mm turbine. (49, 63.5)

There's a little more left if we can get the boost controller situation sorted.

[QuestMCoupe]

Wow, nice numbers.
How much is this kit?

[Darth Maul]

I thought the Euro HFM maxed out or something to that extent, can you really use it beyond 10lbs?

[xjeeper]

impressive!!

How much $$ is invested in this kit?

[artwar2004]

An electronic *should* be a better fix, but the aftermarket ones like the Profec B spec II I had suck ballz.

Could you explain what wrong with Profec B spec II, coz i am thinking of geting one for my self