Dumb mistakes/decisions that added to your turbo build cost.... Or 'Lessons Learned'.

[fritzintn]

Today I spent some time updating and glancing over my 'buildup costs' spreadsheets (which I'll post sometime) and noticed how many redundant costs I had over the course of both builds.

After tallying up the time/money I wasted I'm now more convinced than ever that the easy/cheaper way would have been to just buy a TT Stage II kit or 'prefab' stuff from vendors.

Some of the stuff that stuck out at me:

• Oil drain - ~$250
  The first go around I had a slow leak after tapping the oil pan. No big deal, I was out the cost of the tap and a few hours to pull the pan off. Bought a used pan for $50, got a -10an bung welded on for $45, spend probably 150 on buying various an fittings, turbo drain flanges, and hoses that never quite worked right.
  
  A sump pump would have saved a lot of time and costs the same. Lesson learned.
  
  
  
• Exhaust - Never tell an exhaust shop 'just do what it takes'. It will cost you $450
  
  I made the mistake of bringing my car in with an open downpipe and the ACS/Borla catback and told them to just make it fit. Since they had to ad cats (two of them because they didn't have a single in dual out that fit), the price went up rather quickly.
  
  That was half of the price of the TT kit (which is a full turbo back exhaust). I could have sold my ACS one and been about even with where I am now. Again, lesson learned.
  
  
  
• Charge piping - $560
  
  This was probably the most annoying aspect of the whole deal. Like a crack dealer, the first go around with the local mobile welded was cheap. The second and third visits cost me an arm and a leg. Poo.
  
  Lots of u bends - $140
  Harbor Freight Band Saw (on sale...and scratched my back seat ) $150
  Better band saw blade - $30
  Welding costs - $175
  Misc clamps/couplers - $65
  Lots of time spent fitting pipe, waiting, trips to Napa. And more waiting.
  
  Techno is supposedly making a kit ~$750 that is bolt on and go (plus has TONS more clearance). Again, way better than DIY.
  
  Additionally one of the charge pipes wasn't quite right. So I had a local exhaust shop (yeah, the one that screwed me on the exhaust) cut a section off (told to do so off the car....they didn't) and weld it at a slighly different angle. Well some slag got in the pipe and ate up my turbo ($550 and about a month downtime waiting for a new one)
  
  

There are a few other things, but the 'opportunity cost' of doing your DIY build is still a lot higher than just material things. While I did learn quite a bit doing (or improving stuff) on my own, I sure could have done a lot more social things instead of staying at the house with my head under the car.





(I'm sure UrineMachine will tell me how dumb I am and how his turbo kit will costs $11, some duct tape, and a pack of smokes.)

[JordanMD88]

UMMM Emanage Lol It works but Man did it take some time...... Should have went tec 3 Like i did with my M3. But the 328 was supposed to be a budget build... LOL 5K later She is almost done but It does have a GT35R and the Emanage does it's job very welll... Hopefully i'll be driving her next week If my wheels ever get here (3months and counting)

[Concentric190]

I chaged my mind too many times...

at 1st I wanted to do a DIY low budget, low boost stock motor setup. So I baught a gt35r, stock 3.2l, AA stg 2 IC, Tec 3... yeah well....

Later on for some reason, I changed my mind, had a huge hassle trying to sell that crap I baught (lost money too), and went insane and went as all out as I could go... built 3.2, AEM, Defi's, T4 turbo..., dual walbros, custom fuel rail, HUGE custom exhaust (pretty much custom everything).

Money and Time spent on 2yrs downtime of the car, ridiculous and retarded...

[BMWManiac]

Should have went big from the beginning...now, spending money I could have saved on the install.

[forrest]

I sold my AA kit a couple years ago to get custom stuff from EMC and then had to wait 2 years to get anything. Should have kept what i had

[DanR]

I got a good price on an AA kit, $4k for a bascially new complete kit. I should have gone all DIY with a Haltech like I had planned.

[Bassmaster]

Lessons learned along the way....Air fuel ratios of 11.5 are great for higher boost on the street. Conservative timing under boost will lead to engine longevity. Peak dyno #'s have little to do with everyday drivability.Plan for more $$ than initially thought,Go bigger than planned"turbo,injectors,piping etc..."DIY means "sometimes" you do it right on the first time.

[Eric BMW]

Man Icant wait to see Cameron's post.


Turbo kit 1 2 3 and 4

[someguy2800]

I baught 4 times as much pipe and mandrel bends as what is actualy in the car, I am on my 3rd manifold, and now to top it off my clutch fries at anything over 5 psi. Would have been a good thing to change when I had my motor out.

[Robstah]

(I'm sure UrineMachine will tell me how dumb I am and how his turbo kit will costs $11, some duct tape, and a pack of smokes.)

No need to be a douchebag.

There is something that you guys have yet to figure out. It's called "R&D", Research and Development. You pay for it, whether it be a DIY kit, or a pre-made kit. The only true way of saving money with a DIY kit is actually following in someones footsteps.

[highboostingm3]

Man Icant wait to see Cameron's post.


Turbo kit 1 2 3 and 4

Man, why lay the pressure on so thick?

I am tired. Very tired. So I'm too tired to post some novel. I just wish I would have learned more about the e36 bmw, turbo options for that car, tuning options for that car and what people have done in the past with that car and their experiences with that before I ever bought the car. I am not going to say that I wish I didn't change my mind so much, because I know that before you get used to a little upgrade you might have a hard time jumping to a big upgrade. If I had done what I am doing now in the beginning it would have saved me a bunch of money...however...I would probably hate the car and be scared of it and sell it. So steps can be expensive but at times necessary. The first step should have been the 425whp for sure. That is still easily controllable (unless you are very young) so it would be a good first step and would keep most people happy for a year or more.

What I wish I hadn't done:
-Mechtech...period.
-T3 exhaust manifold (should have done T4 in the beginning so wouldn't of had to change manifold)
-All Defi gauges in the beginning instead of VDO
-e46 m3 front bumper
-DTM exhaust
-Momo racing seats (I got rid of them a while ago)
-3.46 diff
-widebody? (it's a pain in the ass so I hope it really looks good in the end)
-Fusion stereo stuff (Fusion sucks and I am slowly changing to JL Audio)
-GT30R (should have been a GT35R)
-Greddy Profec B Boost gauge (too simple, should have gone with sick one in the beginning)

That's it. I really enjoyed the car with the 3rd turbo system so not really knocking that at all. Quick spool was fun and the Haltech was cool cause I had a switch for the 91 map and 111 map which made switching easy. But that's over with. After 3 years with a Supra and the m3 was just left in the shop or the garage...it's time to finish what I started. It's time to GO BIG OR GO HOME

[alpinawhitem3]

I wish I went custom in the first place.

I wish I never took my car to Paradigm tuning.

I wish I never did business with boostlogic.

I wish I knew teflon lines took special fitting before ordering regular fittings

I wish I had bought a radiator with a larger core instead of a radiator with larger end tanks.

[e36'n]

- I wish I had an external wastegate instead of a stupid dinky internal one that can't stay shut and hold boost. I mean a 2psi drop between 3-6.5k isn't that satisfying.

- Wish I would of known more about installing turbo kits on BMW's so it didn't take so damn long.

- Wish I had a welding machine and knew how to weld (would have saved me at least $1000 if not more). ARGH! I hate exhaust shops.

- Wish I could have figured out how to fit a FMIC without cutting the bumper or removing the aux fan.


Otherwise, great experience.

[aespen]

- Should have put in a clutch that could handle at least 400 rwt. Now I get to upgrade and clutch job = no fun without lift.

[5mall5nail5]

Well to make you feel better (worse?):

My oil drain was $65 from TreadStonePerformance.com, no leaks.

My exhaust we did today with Multiplexes help (THANKS JAY!) for $80 in muffler and u-bends and a piece of pipe Jay had so about $110 from downpipe to muffler.

Charge piping was about $100 in U bends.

Eh.

[good & tight]

Should of never bought that damn T04 for $83 in the first place. (still using it)

Poor engine management, my first setup was a pair of blowthrough 40DCOE & MSD BTM, between the carbs and all the jets I bought and never ran that great it cost me 2 engines. Could of had a great after market EMS.

Dont skimp on the clutch period! Nothing worse than not being able to put it to the ground. I'm going on my 4th clutch already and trying to mate a 6 cylinder flywheel to it

[trthrrt489]

I wish I would have planned on 25psi from the start.

I wish I didn't buy a 60-1 HiFi, and think 350whp would be "enough"

I wish I went Standalone EMS from the beginning.

I wish I went with a beefier clutch from the start.

I wish I never bought a Zeitronix datalogger.

I wish I didn't have to redo every aspect of my setup from the charge pipe to the exhaust tips twice. Because my first setup wasn't made for 500+whp.


Things I did right:

Bought a chop saw.

Bought a MIG and a TIG welder.

Invested in air tools.

[DakarDave]

I wish I had picked a well engineered, well tested, well implemented bolt on kit (one that works right, right out of the box!)
I wish I never heard about "remote tuning"


The one thing I've learned is that after market FI is all about three things:

tuning, tuning, tuning.

Either get a well sorted out kit (and I mean a real kit, not a kit that you bolt on and have to get hours of dyno runs to get "right"), with a properly sized turbo for your application.

OR

Go custom, and get your car to your tuner - so your car can get an in-person tune.

-Dave

[someguy2800]

Things I did wrong

-Wish I decided to build a my stroker moter and then boost, not boost and then build stroker motor.

-Wish I would have fabricated everything for my setup BEFORE starting to install parts.

-Wish I would have done it right the first time and not had 5 months down time while re-fabricating parts and thumbing my asshole.

Thing I did right-

-research

-saved alot of money using hardware store parts and not expensive aftermarket crap (such as silicone connectors)

-attention to minute details (except the clutch that is)

-external wastegate

-designed and fabricated everything myself instead of relying on other people to do it for me. (very satifying to look at the finished product and say, "I made this happen and no one else")

[bigbore]

Right at this moment I wish i had bought a Six (but im depressed)!

I wish i had found some1 more capable & way less Hack'ish to build my custom setup for my 93 318is...
basically im at 12,000km's (8K miles approx) & i need to rebuild my whole system!!!!
was a fun fricken 12K though

mani's cracked 3x's in 12k but look at it!

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3295349
^ aint that sexy

Also no FLEXPIPE in my Down pipe!! no support brackets for my turbo.
motor twists on it;s mounts, mani's got a heavy unsupported turbo on it attached to a rigid exhaust...you figure it out

worse all the shops around me are lacking or clique'ish & always busy if they have the skills...
I found a skilled reputable guy 2hrs drive from me, but at least i found a guy.

my $$$= flushed down the bowl, at least it was cheaper then a D.A.S.C. kit.
and alot of it doesn't have to be bought twice. intercooler, injector controller, turbo.

but yeah bad 1st "custom" experience, had been going to that shop for 4yrs too
unsuported intake piping, turbo, intercooler's a few degrees crooked
nuts as washers, wet jb weld, zipties, sensor wires drapped over the motor, etc

Fear the hacks people, fear them! especially the hack in a good custom shops clothing

[95RogueM3]

What I wish I hadn't done:
-T3 exhaust manifold (should have done T4 in the beginning so wouldn't of had to change manifold)

-GT30R (should have been a GT35R)

Isnt the GT35R a T3 turbo, though? I thought it was a t3/t4 actually..

The Haltech was cool cause I had a switch for the 91 map and 111 map which made switching easy. But that's over with.

Why not stick with the Haltech, then? (I understand the TEC3 is sweet..but just wondering)

[highboostingm3]

Crikey! (tribute to the man may he rest in peace). That looks like a Mechtech manifold.

Isnt the GT35R a T3 turbo, though? I thought it was a t3/t4 actually..

You can get it with a T4 turbine housing too! Just ask Mike Radowski!

Why not stick with the Haltech, then? (I understand the TEC3 is sweet..but just wondering)

Only one guy I know that can properly wire it and tune it in southern Cali and that is DanZio my old tuner. He is the best but very busy. I wanted to go back to a PnP system with a stock wiring harness that was not spliced into such. The only tuner in the country that has successfully tuned many 500+whp e36s including the two highest hp ones out of ICS (811whp/977whp) is Vic "The Man" Sias. I have not heard of one BMW that he has tuned physically himself that has had any serious problems. Can't argue with that.

[Eric BMW]

Only one guy I know that can properly wire it and tune it in southern Cali and that is DanZio my old tuner. He is the best but very busy. I wanted to go back to a PnP system with a stock wiring harness that was not spliced into such.

I've heard a lot of grea tthings about Danzio, but my main concern (and this might just be false information) is that he takes way too long. I was under the assumption that what took Ryan Castro's car so long was the tuning and work by Danzio. Am I misinformed?

[highboostingm3]

I've heard a lot of grea tthings about Danzio, but my main concern (and this might just be false information) is that he takes way too long. I was under the assumption that what took Ryan Castro's car so long was the tuning and work by Danzio. Am I misinformed?

I did say this:

He is the best but very busy.

[byron]

so far my dumbest things have been not ordering my parts far enough ahead so that they are here when i need them and i did not get enough cut off my compressor outlet when i had the elbow welded on for it to clear the subframe. i now have to do more of a bend up and over which is just going to be a pain instead of it working nicely

i know a lot of people find the diy route to be more expensive than buying a kit but i have really liked the whole process and learned a lot about my car and how everything works together.