Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33

Thread: Need input - swapped oil pan, crank hit baffle...WTF

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,770
    My Cars
    BMWs

    Need input - swapped oil pan, crank hit baffle...WTF

    Ok so I swapped my oil pan on my M50 non vanos E34 with another E34 NOn vanos pan I had. I got the pan tapped and swapped it put it all back together, and we hear a CLICK CLICK CLICK sound in neutral with the clutch OUT. With the clutch in, no noise. It was like 12:30a and I needed to go home so we thought it was just the throw out bearing or something and drove home. Noise stopped completely after the first traffic light - clutch in or out.

    Next morning a guy on a E34 site says that sometimes the crank hits the baffle and grinds it down some and I'd see metallic dust in oil - i pull oil filter and yep there's some VERY FINE dust in the oil. Panic! Drained oil like 3x, dropped oil pan, grinded the baffle down. I saw one spot where the crank seemed to have been "knicking" the baffle. It was about 1/8" long and in the direction the crank turns. So I ground it down, washed the pan out GOOD and put it back together.

    So I start the car, no noise, I drive it and about 3,500 rpm I get a slight what almost feels like driveline vibration. I will note that I have UUC Motorwerks Red (race) transmission mounts) and TME (transmission mount enforcers) on the car. But, I didn't notice this vibration before, and it seems to be from like 3500 rpm on, HOWEVER, when the car comes up to temperature, like 10 mins or so driving, the vibration seems much less?!!? WTF is going on.

    I am contemplating building my other motor but I really want to know what the hell is going on with this. I am tempted to just tap and switch back my original oil pan in case this one is for whatever reason bent or something, but I cannot see anything obvious!

    What the hell do you guys think?!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Coppell, TX
    Posts
    2,774
    My Cars
    ///M x 2
    Did you notice any damage to the crank?

  3. #3
    Makr's Avatar
    Makr is offline Snark engineer PHD Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SL,UT
    Posts
    4,684
    My Cars
    '85 635
    I think you are too worried about it.
    Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.
    Henry David Thoreau

    Ride fast, safety last.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Tempe, AZ
    Posts
    3,870
    My Cars
    95' M3, 98' M3/4
    replace the crank if you really want to know whats going on. Or have a custom one made out of billet alum. And have it fully balanced.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Gainesville Florida
    Posts
    2,337
    My Cars
    '97 328i & '97 lac on dubs(not really)
    its all good mang.

    will der Schnurrbart Behandlung?

    www.leistungmotorwerkes.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Edm, AB
    Posts
    2,733
    My Cars
    92 325is, 91 Previa ftw
    I have no idea at all. Wish I could help.
    -Curt

    stock CR 92 non-vanos 325 / first ever Holset HY35 powered BMW / custom tubular manifold & motor mount / stock DME tuning / tial 50mm bov / 46mm xspower w.g. / green top injectors / IC piping designed by myself (above subframe of course) / 12x28x3" IC / oil return into pan that seems to work / e21 tranny mounts / custom blow through MAF / koni sport kit / 18x8.5 mvr replica's / various leaks & body colours

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,878
    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2003 GSXR-1000
    Hi there, turbo newbie in forums, i was wondering what do you guys mean by "tapping" the oil pan, and also why would you do it?? Thank You very much...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,878
    My Cars
    1998 M3, 2003 GSXR-1000
    heh, newbie answers his question, nevermind guys, i just had a a diff picture of the whole thing in my head!! sorry for the dumb question.....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,967
    My Cars
    Fast ones...
    Quote Originally Posted by UrineMachine View Post
    Ok so I swapped my oil pan on my M50 non vanos E34 with another E34 NOn vanos pan I had. I got the pan tapped and swapped it put it all back together, and we hear a CLICK CLICK CLICK sound in neutral with the clutch OUT. With the clutch in, no noise. It was like 12:30a and I needed to go home so we thought it was just the throw out bearing or something and drove home. Noise stopped completely after the first traffic light - clutch in or out.

    Next morning a guy on a E34 site says that sometimes the crank hits the baffle and grinds it down some and I'd see metallic dust in oil - i pull oil filter and yep there's some VERY FINE dust in the oil. Panic! Drained oil like 3x, dropped oil pan, grinded the baffle down. I saw one spot where the crank seemed to have been "knicking" the baffle. It was about 1/8" long and in the direction the crank turns. So I ground it down, washed the pan out GOOD and put it back together.

    So I start the car, no noise, I drive it and about 3,500 rpm I get a slight what almost feels like driveline vibration. I will note that I have UUC Motorwerks Red (race) transmission mounts) and TME (transmission mount enforcers) on the car. But, I didn't notice this vibration before, and it seems to be from like 3500 rpm on, HOWEVER, when the car comes up to temperature, like 10 mins or so driving, the vibration seems much less?!!? WTF is going on.

    I am contemplating building my other motor but I really want to know what the hell is going on with this. I am tempted to just tap and switch back my original oil pan in case this one is for whatever reason bent or something, but I cannot see anything obvious!

    What the hell do you guys think?!
    Could have damaged a bearing during the catching with the baffle...or could be some of the metal filings that have scored one.......

    Alternatively it could have knocked the crank out of true or damaged another part of the rotating assembly

    I think the only way you can be safe is to pull the engine and strip it to investigate the damage properly....as unfortunately this type of problem doesnt tend to get better...usually worse

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Aurora, IL
    Posts
    2,997
    My Cars
    86' 325es/90' 325i; M3 Turbo & 00' Si = gone
    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter View Post
    replace the crank if you really want to know whats going on. Or have a custom one made out of billet alum. And have it fully balanced.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    2,893
    My Cars
    E30 S50 Turbo
    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter View Post
    Or have a custom one made out of billet alum.

    I'm just gonna guess you didn't know that you can't make cranks out of aluminium. They'd bend like a hot pretzel.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    10,352
    My Cars
    2K M Roady, '86 944T
    Are you talking about the baffle that attaches to the bottom of the block? Is there any main reason for it being there? By any chance did it get bent up when swapping the oil pans?

    Rob - 2000 BMW Z3 M Roadster | 1986 Porsche 944 5.3L LM4

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,770
    My Cars
    BMWs
    Talking about the "windage tray" that is sort of riveted in the oil pan - it may have got bent up but when i compared the two oil pans side by side I couldn't see anything obvious!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,770
    My Cars
    BMWs
    Quote Originally Posted by StreuB1 View Post


    Yeah custom billet crank...wtf.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Edm, AB
    Posts
    2,733
    My Cars
    92 325is, 91 Previa ftw
    If you need a crank I have a s50 one that I haven't used.

    Good luck man.
    -Curt

    stock CR 92 non-vanos 325 / first ever Holset HY35 powered BMW / custom tubular manifold & motor mount / stock DME tuning / tial 50mm bov / 46mm xspower w.g. / green top injectors / IC piping designed by myself (above subframe of course) / 12x28x3" IC / oil return into pan that seems to work / e21 tranny mounts / custom blow through MAF / koni sport kit / 18x8.5 mvr replica's / various leaks & body colours

  16. #16
    Makr's Avatar
    Makr is offline Snark engineer PHD Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SL,UT
    Posts
    4,684
    My Cars
    '85 635
    Quote Originally Posted by UrineMachine View Post
    Talking about the "windage tray" that is sort of riveted in the oil pan - it may have got bent up but when i compared the two oil pans side by side I couldn't see anything obvious!


    Seroiusly you are too worried about it. It didnt remove enough material to make any difference. There is no damage to the crank. I am sure the one of the heads of a rod bolt nicked the windage tray, bent itself out of the way on your drive home. Relax, and go enjoy the car.

    Quote Originally Posted by mazur
    I'm just gonna guess you didn't know that you can't make cranks out of aluminium. They'd bend like a hot pretzel.

    It was a joke.
    Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.
    Henry David Thoreau

    Ride fast, safety last.


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,770
    My Cars
    BMWs
    Quote Originally Posted by Makr View Post
    Seroiusly you are too worried about it. It didnt remove enough material to make any difference. There is no damage to the crank. I am sure the one of the heads of a rod bolt nicked the windage tray, bent itself out of the way on your drive home. Relax, and go enjoy the car.


    Yeah but I have a slight vibration at ~3500 rpm when the car is cold, goes away mostly if not completely when warmed, but not positive. Also, I pull the oil filter and see metallic dust in the oil...?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    1,268
    My Cars
    96 Technica Turbo 3.2
    What flywheel are you using? I don't know the history of your build, so forgive me if this question is seemingly unrelated.
    Reason I ask is the Turner F/W has a tendancy to act up right in that area, but will smooth out once it get's past 42-4500. The tranny fluid and it's temp/consistancy will affect it.

    Also, with solid mounts, you will feel everything. Expect to be chasing down rattles for the next month or so as things loosen up.

    Another theory:

    The gap between the pan and the crank is still rather tight. As the crank drops closer to pan, the colder thicker oil is getting squished between the two, creating a bit of interference in the harmonic of the crank. As the oil heats up and thins, the interference diminishes.

    I've got to ask however, if you dropped the pan to clearance the one that was hitting, why didn't you just tap the perfect one that came off originally and put it back on?

  19. #19
    Makr's Avatar
    Makr is offline Snark engineer PHD Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SL,UT
    Posts
    4,684
    My Cars
    '85 635
    Quote Originally Posted by UrineMachine View Post
    Yeah but I have a slight vibration at ~3500 rpm when the car is cold, goes away mostly if not completely when warmed, but not positive. Also, I pull the oil filter and see metallic dust in the oil...?


    I always start feeling things that I havent before, because I am over-sensitive after something like this.

    Are you sure you are not doing the same?


    How do you know it was metalic dust?
    Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.
    Henry David Thoreau

    Ride fast, safety last.


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,770
    My Cars
    BMWs
    Quote Originally Posted by bbaz View Post
    What flywheel are you using? I don't know the history of your build, so forgive me if this question is seemingly unrelated.
    Reason I ask is the Turner F/W has a tendancy to act up right in that area, but will smooth out once it get's past 42-4500. The tranny fluid and it's temp/consistancy will affect it.

    Also, with solid mounts, you will feel everything. Expect to be chasing down rattles for the next month or so as things loosen up.

    Another theory:

    The gap between the pan and the crank is still rather tight. As the crank drops closer to pan, the colder thicker oil is getting squished between the two, creating a bit of interference in the harmonic of the crank. As the oil heats up and thins, the interference diminishes.

    I've got to ask, however, if you dropped the pan to clearance the one that was hitting, why didn't you just tap the one that came off originally, and was perfect?
    Hey good point about the oil theory - the motor is BONE STOCK. No clutch, no flywheel. College budget so I am just turboing and staying off of high boost until I can afford to clamp it.

    Honestly I wish I did just tap the original pan, but with work and school I thought it'd be easier/better to just tap the one I had off the other motor and swap them in an evening - god do I wish I never did this. I am thinking about tapping my original pan now and putting it back on - this will give me another chance to check everything out in the crank area again and swap back to a KNOWINGLY perfect oil pan.

    I think you may be on to something regarding the oil and the clearance to the crank/baffle. I was thinking something similar. I ground it down a hair (basically ran a dremel up and down the edge to give it a hairs more clearance but i didn't take it down like 1/4" or anything near that.

    My issue still is that I have metallic dust in the filter area. I don't know if its making its way past the filter, its a brand new filter, and i tried my best to flush out the oil but didn't fill the valve cover up or anything, just thru the oil fill cap. I am worrying a lot, I know, but I really wish this just didn't happen so I could just put the turbo on and go. What do you suggest at this point knowing the flywheel is bone stock?

    Also, regarding the trans mounts, people do say that I will feel everything/etc, but I've had them on for about a year Red mounts with TMEs, and never noticed any real shake or vibration but truthfully it FEELS like trans rumble that I've felt in other cars (VWs) and such but I just know that pre this event, I never felt this. Additionally why would it go away mostly if it were trans mounts?

    Finally, if my crank were damaged, is there a way to check? Wouldn't I have catastrophic problems @ 5000+ rpm? I rev it up high hoping i just throw a rod and have an excuse to pull the $800 to rebuild but the damn thing is just going...

    Right now I am more concerned with the metal dust in the oil.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,967
    My Cars
    Fast ones...
    Quote Originally Posted by Makr View Post
    I always start feeling things that I havent before, because I am over-sensitive after something like this.

    Are you sure you are not doing the same?


    How do you know it was metalic dust?
    Because it was silver and shiny and "bitty" when rolled between his fingers??


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    45,770
    My Cars
    BMWs
    Quote Originally Posted by and1c View Post
    Because it was silver and shiny and "bitty" when rolled between his fingers??

    No I can't even really feel it - I put some oil from teh filter into a glass bowl and can see very fine "glitter".

    I am sure I've never felt this vibration before except SELDOMLY when decelling from certain RPMs with trans mounts... but this is constant and different.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,967
    My Cars
    Fast ones...
    I would suggest dropping the sump...Again!!

    and having a through investigation...see if you can see anything that could be the cuplrit??

    Failing that....I would definately pull the engine......

    its a whole load of ballache but metal filings in your oil.....even after a thorugh flushing....means there is something that needs urgent attention....

    Trust me!
    A friend of mine had a similiar thing. Metal dust/filings in the oil (ok..so it was a new porsche boxster = Crappy new engine by porsche!) ....he took it to a main dealer who changed the oil and said...It will be ok now.

    Then 2 days later it started knocking BIG time. Big end bearing had gone. Totally knackered by that stage and a £6000 rebuild (by a porsche indy)

    OK. This is a totally different scenario as the expert at the indy said these engines had BIG issues form the factory that were the cause (I forget them exactly now) but nevertheless....goes to show it warrants immediate attention.....

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Athens, GA
    Posts
    10,352
    My Cars
    2K M Roady, '86 944T
    Wait. Are you saying it is hitting the baffle, or the tray? The baffle that is actually attached to the oil pan should be nowhere near the crank, right? Last time I checked, there is an oil pump in between the two.



    Are you talking about the tray in this picture? If so, you should be able to detach it, bend down the tabs, and that should fix the problem.

    Rob - 2000 BMW Z3 M Roadster | 1986 Porsche 944 5.3L LM4

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    1,268
    My Cars
    96 Technica Turbo 3.2
    As for the glitter:

    One thing you might try is to get a few long, thin magnets, and slide them into the grooves of the filter. Not too many, or it will restrict the flow. They need to be a decent thickness so they can stand up to the heat/pressure.

    Pop the hood and let the car idle for a 1/2 hour or, and once in a while rev/hold at 3K for a few sec to genereate some flow.

    Shut it down, wait for the oil to drain out of the housing and pop in a fresh filter.

    The magnets will pick up quite a bit. The filter should get the rest.

    Some builders will hide magnets like this in thier motor to always be pulling out any bits that might be generated after a new build. I've never like the idea of not being able to get to them...

    Our filters are perfect for this method, if the magnet is appropriately sized.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •