Wolfie

[dm635]

I understand about the screwdriver holes. I did have to pull the carpet on my 1st 6 due to brake fluid saturation. The plastic elbow on the clutch master cylinder was broken, so who ever had it before just kept filling the reservior, and the excess filled the floor. I hosed it off for a couple of days. Was a pain, but the capet sure looked good. The padding under the carpet was toast and filled with brake fluid, so it had to go.

You guys in Detroit- ever see an 85 red 6 running around? I sold it to a guy from there, believe his name was mike. He had a lot of work to do to it, after someone keyed this baby. I sold it for just enough to purchase my white one.

[jbd5015]

Well despite the cold weather, i got some work done today...quite a bit in a small amount of time i might add. After i got off the phone with Dave, i started working at about 10:30, its about 11:30 now, im proud of myself!

I pulled the gauge cluster, OBC, and ignition coil. Tore the gauge cluster into its respective pieces and found some interesting things, unexpected things, and expected things...

Photos first!!







Ok, now for explanation, sorry for the last one being fuzzy.

The batteries on the SI board are toast! You can kinda see the crusties. That i was expecting, as my SI was being all funky. What i didnt expect is that the batteries were not original. They looked to have been replaced in august of '96. So this cluster was opened before.

Onto the speedo, and the little green tag. According to this tag, ' repair - odo - trip - gear - IC - caps' is written along the top. Its says the miles were 102,004, and it was done august 18th, 2000. Im going to see if the company has a warranty on their work.

So, in the last 11 or so years, the gauge cluster has been removed 2 times for repairs, both of which have already failed. Im going to do this right this time so i dont have to crack this sucker open again.

What is interesting about the speedo though, i dont see anything broken...makes me wonder why this thing isnt working properly. Ill get some photos up soon of the side.

Also ran into the issue of my tumbler not working. So car wont start, hence why i pulled all this stuff!!!

-Jeff

[CW6er]

A while back I fixed a speedo by replacing the SI batteries, or perhaps it was just the act of unplugging and plugging the connecters into the cluster that did it, who can really know?

Your choices on the SI board:
1) Replace it with an OEM board with batteries
2) Replace it with an after-market battery-less board
3) Repair it by replacing the batteries as original, or
4) Repair it by wiring in a remote battery holder that you locate under the driver's kick panel for easy access.

If the acid from the leaking batteries hasn't damaged the board, I'd go with #4, the remote battery holder. But if it has damaged the board then you can try to repair the traces by reflowing solder on them first, but if it is badly damaged then perhaps the after-market battery-less board is the way to go.

While you have the cluster out, put a conventional Ohm meter (not Digital) on pins 10 and 19 in plug C2 (26 pin-white), these are for the speedo pulse sender in the rear axle. Now jack the rear end and spin a wheel. The Ohm meter needle should wave back and forth as the pulse sender makes and breaks contact. This tests not only the sender, but also the wiring to the cluster.

[jbd5015]

Ive got a board that is in better shape than my own from george (euroshark) over on roadfly. Im going to do the remote battery set-up. What kind of batteries do i use in that case? Can i just pick up some normal rechargable style duracells? The kind you would use for a camera?

Ill see if i can borrow an ohmeter from work, we've got all the different kinds. Good thing i have an open diff...should be able to spin it lifting one side right?

Thanks again Chris, youve always made such helpful posts on this thread!!

-Jeff

[HayekFan]

I had a dead speedo and a new SI board fixed it. That SI board seems to affect a lot of stuff.

BTW, I notice your gas gauge has its 1/2 full mark shifted off-center. I don't think they started doing that until 85 or so, with the 635csi. The earlier ones were centered I think (or at least mine is -- 84 633csi). Also, your tach's redline is a little higher than mine. It begins at 6250 rpm rather than my ~6000. Could your instrument cluster be from a later car? Or maybe mine is non-original (wouldn't surprise me given my car's checkered past).

[jbd5015]

Im not totally sure on that one michael,

When i had an 83 733, i had a normal gas gauge (1/2 was 1/2). Im pretty sure ive seen other 83's with the same gauge as mine. Ive got a gauge from an 84 Euro, and it has the strange 1/2 isnt at 1/2 way thing too, only in liters instead of gallons.

Im taking pictures and comparing now, ill post them up later tonight...

-Jeff

[jbd5015]

Alright, here are some pictures and some of my own research findings. Before looking at the pictures, there are 2 SI boards, and 2 fuel/temp gauge sets. Ill do my best to make sure i label which is which. One set is obviously from Wolfie, a U.S. 2/83 build date car. The other set is from a 12/83 build date euro (listed as 84 model year car).

Ok, Here is the front of my SI Board:



And here is the front of the euro board:



Notice some small differences between the two, mainly placement of components.

Here is the back of my SI board, take note of the red wires, and you can see how the battery acid ate at the board pretty good:



Here is the euro, no red wires...:



Here is another difference i found between the two. There are pins that connect into the speedo, the euro has 4 pins, and the u.s. board has 5 pins. Not sure what the difference implies, but here is what i mean...

U.S.:



Euro:



I want to use the euro SI board. The batteries are dead, but didnt explode and eat the board like what happened in mine. I have the euro fuel and temp gauge i plan on using with it, but i dont know if the euro SI board works with the U.S. speedo. Im going to ask george if the car he pulled this from has a MPH gauge. I would think it would.

Here are the temp/fuel gauges. The euro one is on the bottom:



No major differences there, except the measurement system on the fuel gauge.

Here is my speedo:



Not what i expected. Im hoping that when i put the repaird SI board in it'll work.

Well thats what ive got so far. Next step is to get out the soldering gun and practice removing the batteries on the gross board.

Hope people find interest in my findings...i know i do!

-Jeff

[sixseries]

its at least from a 633 cuz the speedo doesnt' go to 160. it could be from a later yr 83 tho. my 85 euro has that wieird 1/2 thing too

[amibuggnu]

I find it interesting Jeff, I've no doubt we all do! I've been having SI problems of my own lately and have just bought a replacement through ebay from a US seller earlier this week. I'll be interested to see if there are differences between my old board and the replacement similar to those you've found.

And it is also quite interesting to see those subtle differences to the design of the gauges that you and Hayekfan have pointed out. Things that make you go hmmmm!

Regards,
Ellis.

[VictoriaMatt]

Hey guys, Im finding this interesting. The U.S. spec fuel gauge with the off center 1/2 tank mark, is off center cause there is no reserve past the E.

That little line that looks like 1/4 is actually the start of the reserve. I made the mistake of thinking it was 1/4 the day I bought my 6ér and ran outta gas on the way to the pump. 1/4 is really half way between the 1/2 and the reserve tank line.

Also, I belive the Euro SI boards are 4 pin because they are DIN standard. Im guessing that the US market SI boards are manufactured by a US contractor and therefor have a US style pin configuraion.

Another problem with the Speedo's is that the gears get worn down (I think). I belive there is a topic and a fix about this at Bigcoupe.com

Not sure if I am correct, but there is my $0.02. Hope I helped or at least entertained.

[e24mpwr]

Jeff - I have to say it...You are fearless, and a far better Shark owner than I am.

This is one of the threads that I keep active track of - who knows where Wolfie would be without you!

My hat is off to you!

[CW6er]

I don't think there is any difference between the U.S. and Euro fuel gages.

If you look at the Euro gage, full is 70 and half of that would be 35 which is in the same position as the 1/2 mark on the U.S. gage.

VictoriaMatt, I'd guess that your gage is probably just off.

[joecautela]

Jeff, nice work there on Wolfie. I've gotta ask a couple questions about this SI board. Everything in my cluster seems to work except for the speedo. So before I get into pulling everything apart I'm definately going to confirm a pulse from the rear to the front. My question is this. Is the SI board the link that converts the pulse for the speedo, and do I really need to go near it? I don't really mess with the OBC, it's there and lit up, telling me the temperature and all the ck lights come on so I'm thinking more of a mechanical defect than electronic. I'm really kinda hoping it's just the sender in the rear and not open the dash at all!, thx, Joe

[jbd5015]

Yea, i would check the sender first. If it is just the MPH being off, or bouncy, and not the odometer or tripmeter, it should be the sensor on the diff.

Im not sure if the SI board is that link or not. I think that it may be an estuary if you will. It has something to do with something hahaha, if that makes sense.

Ripping the dash apart really isnt that bad. As long as you dont lose all the screws, and know what to pop off, and how some of the clips work.

Thanks for the comments guys, and to answer your question Lee, i have wondered myself where the poor beast would be if i didnt get my hands on him. The PO wanted him to go to a good home and get the fixing up the car deserves. There was a connection between the car and myself when i first saw it, even my girlfriend knew Wolfie was the car.

Even after all the frustrations ive had with the car from time to time, im soo happy that i got Wolfie. What an entertaining car to own! Also, never in a million years thought i would meet such an awesome network of genuine people through the car.

Again, thanks everyone for watching this thread. I get a kick out of reading everyone else's build threads, and im glad im adding more to this thread in the next few months before SESF...WOO HOO!!

-Jeff

[joecautela]

I hear ya, but I'm gonna wait for warmer weather for the speedo. The odo doesn't work either so I'll start at the back when the weather gets nicer. In the meantime though, it's back under the hood to finish out my running/idle issues, which I've made super gains and I'm also designing/fabricating my own style of a super sprint cat back exhaust. I'll be reading you're thread, I'm enjoying it!! Joe

[HayekFan]

Interestingly enough, there are two e24 instrument clusters for sale on eBay at the moment -- an early one and a later one (84 and 87 I think). What's interesting is the early one has the offset fuel gauge and the later one has the centered gauge.

So, assuming they're both original and that they're representative of the general population of e24 clusters for their years, then the question of originality seems to have been answered. Wolfie's cluster with its offset gauge is probably original. Mine is probably a replacement from a later model. Another clue is that my cluster has an 'Anti-Lock' light, which I don't think would be correct for an 84.

It is interesting the little details from year to year.

Speaking of details, has anyone noticed that the OBC's display brightens when it's sunny outside? I just noticed this the other day when I was driving in and out of some shadows cast by some trees. At first I thought it was my eyes fooling me, but sure enough, when I was in a shadow, the OBC would dim.

I wonder where the light sensor for this is?

[jbd5015]

Alrighty, ive got the old batteries off the board, so now i just have to get some wire, and a battery pack.

I took advice from george on the removal. I took the soldering gun to the back side of the board and heated the spots where the battery terminals were soldered. I cant stress enough how slow the process is. Probably took me about a half hour to 45 mins to get it done. Now there is no damage, and its ready to go. I just used the gun and a screwdriver. Once the old solder is liquid, i gently pryed up each prong. One by one they came out. You just have to play around with it to find where to pry from, cause you've got 3 objects your try to hold and use together and 2 hands haha..



You can see the wholes that i tried to leave open for the wires for when i put in the new remote battery set up. Its like this on both areas where the batteries were.



Holes from the top side:



View of how i was heating the spots:



Feels good to get them off with no damage! The install will be MUCH easier.

-Jeff

[CW6er]

Why are you using a Euro board on a U.S. car?

Glade to see you marked the battery polarity on the board. Now you just have to find which end has the common connection. Here is a link on replacing the batteries from the BCG Tech Library:

http://www.normgrills.net/bcg/Electr...#anchor6436272

[jbd5015]

Because my board lookes to be toasted from the battery acid explosion, as well as this board was a freebe, so im going to use it.

I figured i should mark it, but i also remember how the batteries go in visually. Im kind of confused at what that article was saying, but then again i didnt see the original article, i will definitely be referring to that one again.

Thanks Chris!!

-Jeff

[alpinacsi]

Interestingly enough, there are two e24 instrument clusters for sale on eBay at the moment -- an early one and a later one (84 and 87 I think). What's interesting is the early one has the offset fuel gauge and the later one has the centered gauge.

Here is something else to look at on the later clusters. I think it started with the 86 model year that the # of LEDs on the SI board changed. I think it was 5 green, 1 yellow and 1 red. I may be wrong on the #s but I know the later ones had less then the ones up thru 85. Also the SI and conductor boards were completely different.

[jbd5015]

That was one thing i think ive seen on the later cars Todd,

Although ive never driven in an E24 with working SI lights. I cant wait to have a fully functioning set of gauges and SI and OBC stuff.

My next project with the dash area is the cruise control. What typically goes wrong with the cruise control on these cars? Where is the module located anyway?

-Jeff

[E36 328is]

When you say SI lights does that by any chance stand for service indicator lights? Just a random guess.

[jbd5015]

That would be them. The boards are powered by rechargable NICAD batteries. Unfortunately old nicad batteries were pretty bad, and exploded pretty easily. Thats why my SI lights were lighting up like tacky christmas decorations. Im not even sure how they actually operate!

Do they stay on all the time when driving? Or do they shut off after a little while?

-Jeff

[HayekFan]

Here is something else to look at on the later clusters. I think it started with the 86 model year that the # of LEDs on the SI board changed. I think it was 5 green, 1 yellow and 1 red. I may be wrong on the #s but I know the later ones had less then the ones up thru 85.

I just looked at the eBay listings and you're right -- it's 1 red LED on the later models versus 3 on the earlier ones.

[joecautela]

Jeff, once you start the motor you'll have a the check light and brake light blinking. Step on the brakes once and they shut off. All the other service lights stay off when running, unless something is wrong of course! My brake svc light comes on every once in a while but goes out and stays off when it rains. I figure it's just an old dried out sensor that needs a little moisture to make the connection. Joe