Koni SA /Eibach Springs/ Eibach Sways Reveiw

**tlp-96M3/2** · 09-09-2002, 05:49 PM

<body>Current Setup:<table border="1" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="41%" id="AutoNumber3"><tr><td width="23%">Shocks</td><td width="44%">Koni SA (Single Adjustable)</td></tr><tr><td width="23%">Springs</td><td width="44%">Eibach Pro-Kit</td></tr><tr><td width="23%">Sway Bars</td><td width="44%">Eibach</td></tr><tr><td width="23%">Misc.</td><td width="44%">E46M3 Rear Shock Mounts</td></tr></table>Current Shock & Sway bar adjustments:<table border="1" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="41%" id="AutoNumber2"><tr><td width="7%"> </td><td width="19%">Shock</td><td width="37%">Sway Bar</td></tr><tr><td width="7%">Front</td><td width="19%">1.5 turns from full stiff</td><td width="37%">Full Soft</td></tr><tr><td width="7%">Rear</td><td width="19%">1 turn from full stiff</td><td width="37%">Full Soft (until I get rear sway reinforcements)</td></tr></table>Ride drop from stock setup (measured from center cap to fender lip):<table border="1" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111" width="49%" id="AutoNumber1"><tr><td width="16%"> </td><td width="13%">Stock</td><td width="55%">Eibach Springs with Extra rear spring pads*</td><td width="87%">Variance</td></tr><tr><td width="16%">Front</td><td width="13%">14"</td><td width="55%">13.4"</td><td width="87%">.6"</td></tr><tr><td width="16%">Rear</td><td width="13%">13.1"</td><td width="55%">12.6"</td><td width="87%">.5"</td></tr></table>*10mm rear upper spring pad with an extra stacked bottom pad cut to fit on top of the upper pad which equates to a 15mm upper spring pad. 
Stock setup for 1996 is a 7.5mm upper spring pad.  Bump stops have been trimmed 1" front and rear.Background:  I have come from 3 or 4 different
setups on my car in the last year.  The first setup was stock suspension. 
The second setup was H&R Coilovers.  The third was back to stock again and
now I am on the current which will be the final setup.  My new quest became
to find a setup that was basically a compromise between the stock suspension and
H&R C/O's.  I was on fence between Eibach Springs and H&R Sports but after
talking to Ground Control and couple of members on the board it seemed that the
Eibach's would offer a slightly more compliant ride than the H&R's as they are
supposed to be slightly softer.  My current setup fits the bill.
Install: The install was relatively straightforward
without and notable surprises.  I bought the shocks slightly used from a
board member and didn't have to cut the and drill the struts to install the
inserts this time around.  I have done this so many friggen times, I can
now do it in my sleep.
Observations:  I never realized how bad the
stock setup really was until I removed the C/O's and stuck the stockers back on.  
The car literally feel like a boat plowing through mashed potatoes with the
stockers.  BTW, the stockers had approx. 35k miles on the clock.  I
loved the twistys with the H&R coilovers, the handling was near telepathic. 
The steering response was instantaneous.  Unfortunately for me, the ride
offered too much feedback on the straights and uneven surfaces.  While the
ride was not overly harsh it was too busy and offered too much communication for
my tastes.  When I was feeling road surfaces that I couldn't even see or
anticipate it became taxing and annoying during many of my geritol moments on
the freeway.  
Impressions:  The car finally has the table
manners on the street that I have been searching for.  While squat & dive
have not be totally eliminated, they have been dramatically reduced and are
barely noticeable.  Small road surfaces and undulations are soaked up
nicely and are no longer transmitted to the as unnecessary driver feedback. 
The car feels much tighter, connected and balanced while not beating me up at
the same time.  The car feels nicely planted with no sense of twitchiness
or nervosa in the turns.  The sway bars keep body roll to a minimum and the
car on an even plane.  Driver input was more quickly rewarded with changes
in the vehicle's direction during transitions.  The ride is only slightly
stiffer/firmer than stock and through some experimentation I have noticed that
the shocks are very sensitive to 1/2 turn adjustments.  I have settled on
1/2 turn softer in the front and rear based on Ground Controls original
recommendations of Koni's mated with Eibach springs.
Who's it for:  I would classify this setup for
the people that generally want to increase the overall handling characteristics
of the vehicle but do not want to sacrifice comfort and ride quality.  If
your car is street driven 98% of the time with an occasional DE or Auto-X then
this would most likely meet your expectations.
Suggestions:  The biggest mistake I made in
the beginning was not "Test Driving" any of the setup's that I was considering. 
Personally, I don't enjoy swapping the suspension in and out of the car,
especially 3x's!!  I vowed that the next time I travel down the bumpy road
of suspension setup's that I would test drive other cars.  AUS was gracious
enough to let me drive his car with Koni SA's & H&R Sports which sealed the deal
on the shocks.  Keep in mind that there are different suspension strokes for
different folks.  Case in point, Gatorbait went from Koni SA's with Stock
springs to H&R C/O's and is extremely happy the performance and ride
characteristics.  What is harsh and irritating to me, may not be harsh to
you and vice versa.   
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**tlp-96M3/2** · 09-09-2002, 05:53 PM

Front Drop!!!

**frayed** · 09-09-2002, 06:45 PM

Hmm, sounds like the Eibach Pro kit and Konis are an ideal setup for a stictly street driven car. I may do that if/when my car becomes a street-only machine.

Nice write-up!!

**Hank** · 09-09-2002, 07:27 PM

I installed the H&R Cupkit (coilover front, lowering spring and valve matched shock rear). Along with Kmacs and Eibach sways...I love the setup! I got lucky and listened to a lot of opinions that were posted, took other experienced peoples word on it, but thinking back, if you're about to change your setup, take the oportunity of taking a test drive everyone has a different opinion as to what harsh means.

**M3corey** · 09-09-2002, 07:29 PM

nice writeup man .. looks great ..

hank - ur running the cup kit .. how low of a drop is that ?? any serious camber issues coming from running them ?

**Gatorbait** · 09-09-2002, 07:42 PM

Good write up, TLP. I'm glad this combination works for you.

If I could have ridden in an M3 with any of the three aftermarket suspensions I went through, I could have saved myself frustration and $$$. Not too many modified M3's in northeast FL regrettably. Fortunately and finally, I'm very happy with the H&R C/O's.

While I acknowledge that ride-quality means different things to different people, I've been puzzled as to why the H&R C/O setup didn't work for you. In looking at your signature I noticed that you were running eighteen-inch wheels and, presumably, plus one tires. I'm wondering if this may have tipped the scales against the H&R C/O's for you? I'm presently running stock staggered wheels/tires, which works fine for me, but I might not be too excited about giving up some sidewall b/c of negative impact on ride quality. Also, if you were running high tire pressures, that may have also colored your opinions of the H&R's (I'm running a fairly low 30psi x 4, but I'm happy with it). Your swaybars may have had a small but discernible impact on ride-quality as well. FWIW, I know of another BF member who's also expressed concerns about an overly busy ride with his H&R C/O's, so you're not alone in your assessment.

In any event, enjoy.

**tlp-96M3/2** · 09-09-2002, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Gatorbait
I've been puzzled as to why the H&R C/O setup didn't work for you. In looking at your signature I noticed that you were running eighteen-inch wheels and, presumably, plus one tires. I'm wondering if this may have tipped the scales against the H&R C/O's for you?

When I was running the C/O's I had the stock staggered wheels with pilot sports. I had a modest drop of 1 inch on both ends and I was using the stock sway bars. Since the C/O's are only height adjustable, the only thing that I could do was adjust the tire pressure which I did and that did take away some of the inital harshness. If it wasnt' for the grid system of roads and streets here in Orange County I probably would have kept them due to the handling alone. The word "Harsh" has too much of a gray area.

I just recently switched to 18's and did the conversion when the suspension was stock. I didn't notice difference in ride quality with the wheel upgrade. In fact, if anything the ride quality was better with the 18's (Quieter & Smoother). My stock rear pilot sports were very worn and the tire seemed to have more of a square edge than the new Pirelli P-Zeros. I think the difference in sidewall and tire wear between the two affected the ride quality. I will admit that intial turn-in was more responsive with the pilot sports. Another observation with the P-Zero's is they have more a tendency to wander and are less motivated to self correct back to center as the pilot sports (once again I attribrute it to sidewall differences).

**aus** · 09-09-2002, 08:52 PM

LOOKS SWEET!! Congrats.

Glad you found a set-up you finally like. Good luck with your next big project.

**M3Jokster** · 09-10-2002, 03:21 AM

very nice!

**tlp-96M3/2** · 09-10-2002, 01:06 PM

FYI:

The Eibach Pro-Kit spring for a E36M3 application is in fact a Linear rate spring.

Spring Rates:

Front 131
Rear 428

This infomation was given to me by Eibach Technical Support.

**norman** · 09-10-2002, 05:16 PM

does changing the swaybar setting has anything to do with ride quality?

CJ · 09-10-2002, 05:27 PM

What are your thoughts on the swaybars? Thanks for the writeup, very detailed. I've had a ride in only 2 E36's with suspension done. One with Eibachs and one with Bilstien PSS-9's and I found the PSS-9's to have a firmer yet much less harsh ride. But I still can't make up my mind with what suspension to go with..

Car looks great! Gotta love that modena..

**tlp-96M3/2** · 09-10-2002, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by norman
does changing the swaybar setting has anything to do with ride quality?

Originally posted by CJarrett
What are your thoughts on the swaybars? Thanks for the writeup, very detailed. I've had a ride in only 2 E36's with suspension done. One with Eibachs and one with Bilstien PSS-9's and I found the PSS-9's to have a firmer yet much less harsh ride. But I still can't make up my mind with what suspension to go with..

The nice thing about my install was that it was staged. I drove around for week with just the front spring & shocks mated with stock sways. Then I drove for week with just Koni's and the Eibach springs all around with stock sways. This gave me an oportunity to really sample the areas of the car that I was changing. Since the Eibach springs have a realively low spring rate I knew that I was going to get unwanted body roll. The sways help the car mantain it's composure in the turns while not sacrificing the ride quality. The only minor negative is slow speed uneven bumps or surfaces. It's not bad at all, but the sways can amplify a little harshess in that area. As I mentioned it is nominal and barely discernable. Both sways are set to full soft. I haven't adjusted them yet. If adjust the sways to full stiff I would assume that the ride on uneven bumps would be slightly better due to the lower leverage point and movement on the sway bar.

**norman** · 09-10-2002, 07:49 PM

i've got mine on full stiff,f/r, might want to change it med in front to see if it reduces understeer, but didnt want to affect the ride too much.

**tlp-96M3/2** · 09-10-2002, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by norman
i've got mine on full stiff,f/r, might want to change it med in front to see if it reduces understeer, but didnt want to affect the ride too much.

Setting the Front to Full soft will definitely reduce understeer. If if compromises the ride you always set it back. They are so easy to adjust, you got nothing to lose.

**norman** · 09-10-2002, 08:31 PM

i dont work on cars much, and last time i tried to adjust my bars, i only lifted 1 wheel,felt like homer simpson

: is both wheels off the ground right?

**tlp-96M3/2** · 09-11-2002, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by norman
i dont work on cars much, and last time i tried to adjust my bars, i only lifted 1 wheel,felt like homer simpson: is both wheels off the ground right?

Just make sure that both wheels are lifted or raised evenly. This will remove any stress from the sway bar. You can either jack the car up or put it on ramps.

**dngo** · 09-11-2002, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by tlp-96M3/2
FYI:

The Eibach Pro-Kit spring for a E36M3 application is in fact a Linear rate spring.

Spring Rates:

Front 131
Rear 428

This infomation was given to me by Eibach Technical Support.

Woo hoo! I'm glad to see that someone else has taken the time to call Eibach and verify this. Every time I post that Eibach Pro-Kit springs for the M3s are linear, someone jumps down my throat and says they're progressive. The numbers Eibach quoted me for spring rates were slightly different, but not significantly so:

For '95s, PN 2041.140: F 122lb/in, R 440lb/in
For '96+, PN 2059.140: F 136lb/in, R 440lb/in

Glad you like the setup!

**///M3ryder NY** · 09-16-2004, 10:51 AM

Back from the dead...

What's the purpose of this below?

"*10mm rear upper spring pad with an extra stacked bottom pad cut to fit on top of the upper pad which equates to a 15mm upper spring pad.
Stock setup for 1996 is a 7.5mm upper spring pad. Bump stops have been trimmed 1" front and rear."

What effect will it have on the suspension, if this isn't done? I haven't seen terry around the boards in ages, so hopefully someone else can answer this? Thanks.

**SG_M3** · 09-16-2004, 11:15 AM

Spring pads are used to change the height of the rear. You can use them to raise or lower the car by the 3 sizes. 5, 7.5 15mm.

**///M3ryder NY** · 09-16-2004, 11:28 AM

Thanks Sean, what about trimming bump stops?

**SG_M3** · 09-16-2004, 11:34 AM

You reuse the stock bumpstops, so I guess Terry estimated and just cut 1" off. You could actually use zip ties to find the exact length or just estimate like he did.

**another m3/4** · 09-16-2004, 11:47 AM

Excellent write up, i'll be sure to review it again before getting a new suspension setup. By the way what kind of wheels are those, they look great.

**///M3ryder NY** · 09-16-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by another m3/4

Excellent write up, i'll be sure to review it again before getting a new suspension setup. By the way what kind of wheels are those, they look great.

I haven't seen terry on the board much anymore... His writeup was fantastic, i've always referred back to this....

His wheels are SSR GT3s, 18 inch.

**tlp-96M3/2** · 12-24-2004, 12:58 AM

Someone brought this thread back from the dead. It's been over 2 years and have I still have no reservations on the shock/spring/sway setup and would do it all over again. Great choice for the performance minded, practical daily driver. Looking at the picture today, I could swear that I got a little more drop over time.

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