What's good, what's not so good (Car Audio Products)

[Sephiroth619]

Camxrunner of toyotanation.com came up with this list. Thought it was ingenious and could be very useful to the BFC CA&E community. Thank you Cam.

This list is my personal OPINION on what I consider how manufacturers and their products rank. I have used some of the products listed, but most of these brands/models listed is what I have came across from years of research on the subject, and/or from first hand listening.


Amps:

Audiophile

McIntosh
TRU
Audison VRx, LRx series
Brax
Milbert
Butler
Zapco C2K
Genesis Series 3
Sinfoni
Xetec P5 line ( www.xetec.de )

Audphile but a step down from the above
Genesis Profile Series
U.S. Amps Tube amps
Phass
Linear Power
PPI Art amps
DLS A series
U.S. Amps
Soundstream Reference, Class A
Helix
Xetec Gravity
Zapco Reference
Denon
Adcom
Diamond D7 and D9 amps (D7's can be had cheap right now, good amps)
Esoteric
Arc Audio CXL, XXK
Phoenix Gold Ti, ALso Older MS and Limited Production amps(Anniversary Editions, etc)
ADS
Phase Linear

Quality

JL Slash amps
PPI Powerclass (Pre DEI)
Elemental Designs (good warranty, underrated power too)
Diamond D5 and D3 (very cheap right now on ebay, good amps, esp. D5's, very flexible crossovers if you need onboard crossovers)
Arc Audio Kar
Phoenix Gold Tantrum
Memphis-Very compact
Alpine
Pioneer PRS (older line)
Orion-Pre DEI
XTant
MB Quart amps
Rockford Fosgate
Avionixx
MTX
Older Mobile ES Sony
Exile Audio, new company founded by former Phoenix Gold employees.
Xetec Xircuit and Vector Series amps

Value
MTX
Kicker
DEI
Clarion
Pioneer Amplifiers
Coustic
Crossfire
Infinity, and JBL amps (pretty mch same thing)
Hifonics


Poor
Audiobahn
Dual
Jensen
Boss
Volfenhag
American HiFi
Rockwood
Legacy
Kole
Pyramid
MA Audio
Kingwood
Newer Sony
Pyle
XPlore
Lanzar(Except Opti Drive amps. Those are pretty good actually)
Audiofonics
Rampage
Audiovox
New Soundstream
Phoenix Digital
Formula
Koiker
Nitro
Power Acoustik
Lightning Audio
Niche
Verge
Crunch

Next will be Speakers.

As I stated before, this is my OPINION Please do research heavily before you buy a certain product.

I am sure I have missed alot of brands, so if you think something should be represented here. Post it.
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Speakers: Every person has different listening tastes. Unfortuntely most of the stuff listed here you can't exactly go and audition somewhere. And if you could it would most likely be in a sound board and will sound alot different in an in-car environment anyways.

I always rec. wiring active if you have adequate processing, and amplification(one channel of power for each individual driver). BUT it's much easier to set up a passive component set. So results can differ.

If you have an amp that has flexible crossovers that include a bandpass then you can do the crossovers at the amp. Using a headunit with a 3 way crossover would be preffered as you will have more fine tuning capabiltiy. You can also use an electronic active crossover+eq with great results.

Some people prefer to get a component system that has passive crossovers. This can be good for the person that want's to run a 4 channel amp to power the front components and the sub(s) You can always go active afterwards.

Some of these options will vary and sound completely different. Some in the same group might sound better than another.

The most important thing is finding something that will work good in your application. Then installing it properly and tuning it properly. Plan on using an amplifier(s) for the speakers. Try to have at least 40-50 watts RMS per driver. If possible more. Alot of these speakers can handle a good amount of power. Some don't need that much. Just be sure to properly set the gains.

I plan on using about 150 watts rms to my mids, and about 75 watts rms to the tweeters.

Some if not most of these speakers are from home audio manufacturers but can be used in the car with great results. And in most cases these are some of the companys that make speakers for alot of the car audio offerings.

I know I am missing alot, but some good stuff to look into:

Audiophile

Seas Lotus Reference
Seas Excel
Rainbow
Focal Utopia, K2P
Morel
Dynaudio
Hiquphon tweeters
MB Quart QSD
Scan Speak
Alpine F1 Status (similar to Scan Speak Revelators, but tweaked for Alpine)
Arc ACS
DLS Iridium, UR
Beyma
Image Dynamics HLCD's
RS Audio
AVI
LCY
ACCUTON
Fountek
CDT HD, Eurosports and 07 model lineup.
Boston Z6
Diamond D9

Quality Passive Component systems Keep in mind, all these can be wired active.

MB Quart QSD
MB Quart PCE216 6.5" set Or PCE210 if you need 4" components. (also can be a nice 3 way active set with midbass addon)
JL XR
Alpine Type-X SPX-177R
Image Dynamics Chameleons
CDT EF, HD, they make slim mounting depth variants.
Elemental Designs eDi6500s eDi6000s are ok for the money.
Phoenix Gold TI 6 Elite (Morel)
Boston Pro Series
ADS
Exile Audio Components are pretty good for the money, not an audiophile speaker, but definitely good quality. VERY shallow mounting depth if you need it, and very lighweight too if you are building a race car and need evey weight of ounce shaved, but still want some tunes.
Diamond Hex

DIY Components
Mids: 7"
Seas CA18RNX, G18RNX - 55 each
DAYTON RS180S-8 - 33 each (deep driver though check clearance) Nice mid
Peerless HDS Exclusive
Adire Audio Extremis 6.8 99.00 each
For more choices and quick reviews, go here.
http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-12-bass.php3#BASS6.5-
and of course www.diymobileaudio.com
Phaze Audio/PPI Tubedriver mids (check ebay)
Seas Lotus/Excel $ but awesome.




Tweeters:

LPG 25NFA (silk) 26NA(Aluminum) The aluminum is best suited for people that like sharper highs. These are 37 each.

Dayton Neo domes- 5.00 each
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=275-030
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=275-035

Dayton RS Tweeters(large outer diameter though)

Seas 27TBFC/G (H1212) (large outer diameter) 30.00 each

Vifa XT

MB Quart QTC25

Focal TN-51, TN-52

Hiquphon OW2 (99 each though)



Midrange:

Domes:
-Usher 9845 3" Textile
LPG 51AT(Aluminum), LPG 50FA(textile) 64 each
DLS UR2.5(-+75 bucks each), Iridium 3
DAYTON DC50F-8 2" 28.00 each

Cones:
Seas Excel W15
MB Quart QSD213
Vifa 10BGS aka MG10
Vifa M10
Audax HM100Z0
Vifa PL
Eton 4-300 hex

Remeber to check mounting depths, and plan on using a 1/2" to 3/4" baffle to mount the speaker to the door. That will give you some extra mounting depth. Also check clearance from the speaker to the door panel.

Most importantly, do as much research you can before deciding to buy. These are just certain things to get you looking in the right direction. There's alot of other good stuff out there, and there are 10X more bad stuff out there. Research is the key.

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SUBS

When shopping for a subwoofer, you first need to do some planning on how you want to set up the install. The amount of subs, power rating, ohm configurations, enclosure size, and subwoofer size can make for alot of different variables.

You also need to consider your electrical system. If you're going to run over 400-600 watts rms, you should consider an upgraded alternator. (not to mention a stronger battery, and Big 2 upgrade)

These two links are good to check out before picking out a subwoofer.

http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubb/ult...;f=11;t=069893


Some subs are designed to work better in certain enclosures. There are purpose built subs that are made fro SPL. There are subs that are made purely for sound quality. Theres also "SQL" subs. These are sort of a mix of a SQ driver and a SPL driver.

SPL subs are generally designed to be installed in a large ported enclosure. SQ and SQL subs can typically be put in both with good results. Sealed typically yeilds better sound quality and accuracy, also with a sealed enclosure the amount of airspace needed is lessened. This can be good if you are trying to do a small or stealth enclosure.

One advantage of using a ported enclosure is that the same sub can get louder off of less power than the sub in the sealed enclosure. In most cases you give up some accuracy by going to a ported enclosure. But you can get very good results out of using a ported enclosure.

A similar install would be an Infinite Baffle install. AKA IB. This type of install also requires less power than a sealed enclosure and can yeild very good results too.

Infinite Baffle can be great for people that don't want to give up any space in their trunk. But space saving isn't the only reason to go this route. IB can sound very VERY good too if properly implemented.

If you do decide to do an IB install, you need to carefully pick a subwoofer that can be used in an IB install. Do some searching on the www.buwaldahybrids.com and www.talkaudio.uk forums. IB installs are very popular there and there's a ton of info on it.

When picking any sub/enclosure you need to take into consideration how much power you have avaialable. Some subs are more efficient than others, and work well off low power. Some require a certain amount of power to get moving. SPL subs typically require and work better off of more power. A sq sub is typically designed to work well off 100-400 watts rms.

Another subject worth bringing up is the use of different types of amplifiers. The two most common types are Class D and Class AB(there's also tube amps, class T, Class A and other types, but we won't go into those)

Class AB power is less efficient than class D. However class AB is prefered over class D for better sound quality. If you are going to do a sound quality sub install, and don't require more than400-500 watts rms, then you can probably get away with using class AB and your electrical system should be able to handle it. If you are more into SPL you can use a class D amp and a ported enclosure and get considerably louder than the sq install with the same draw on the electrical system. At some point you have to upgrade the alternator though.

A very big SPL or SQL install will require more power.


Here's some things to check out, be sure to do plenty of your own research before picking a sub.

TC Sounds TC2+/Soundsplinter RL-i www.oaudio.com www.soundsplinter.com These subs are known for great sound quality and having the capability of getting very loud. In a sealed enclosure 400+ watts rms should be used.

TC SOunds TC9/Soundsplinter RL-p SQL/SPL subs. These are also great subs. Send lots of power though

Image Dynamics IDQ, old design, but hasn't been changed for a reason. Great SQ subs. For ID on the internet go to www.sounddomain. Pretty efficient subs and don't need too much power. These subs work great in sealed or ported. 100-350 watts rms is all that's needed, the 12"s and the 15"s can handle 400-500 watts rms.

Image Dynamics ID, still a great sq sub, but designed to get louder than the IDQ's, 100-400 watts rms. The ID8V3 is also a great 8" sub.

Image Dynamics IDMAX, very popular SQL sub. Works well off 600-1,000 watts rms.

All Image Dynamics subs work well in IB installs.

Peerless XLS and XXLS. There is a home version and a car version. The car version has lower ohms. These also work great in freeair installs.

Diamond D6 sub great sub with 600+ wrms.

Arc Audio D series, very similar to IDQ

Arc Flatline, very nice SQL sub.

Dayton Audio Titanic, good SQL sub

Adire Audio makes good subs across their whole lineup. The Brahma is a popular sub, but very power hungry, needs over 1K watts rms.

RE Audio makes subs that cater to everyone, SE has good sq, and get's loud. XXX is a great SQL sub. RE MT is a dedicated SPL sub, handles lots of power.

Soundstream Exact's are nice SQ subs, and fairly inexspensive.

Digital Designs makes great subs, most of DD is designed for SPL, but very nice sounding subs though.

Elemental Designs- eD is very comparable to ID.

Treo makes good SPL subs.

Older PPI flatcone subs were really nice.

Illusion Audio made really nice SQ subs that are very shallow(but still require good airspace), they just recently went back into business.

If I think of more I'll add them later.

[bfowler]

WOW that was quite a write up! the only thing on that whole post i disagree with is:

Running the Phoenix Gold TI Elite Tweeter active is NOT recommended, something about the passive crossover also converting AC/DC power, not sure how this works on a technical level, but on a "Almost guaranteed to blow them if you run them active level" Don't do it. others might be the same, someone else probibly knows

also, another great sounding sub left off is the PG XENON sub, looks are a little questionable, but the are amazing SQ woofers in their price range. as far as i know, there isnt a sub in the same price range they play lower than they do.

If you cant tell, im a PG Freak

[el.duderino]

New Sony 7715 is a pretty good HU. 24 bit Burr Browns, 4V, sub out, knob, dark gray metal face, aux in.

Blue display tho : )

I'd put the PG Morels in Audiophile, esp. since you put Morel in there too.

Other than that, I'd have to say that's a damn good list.

[OnUrleft]

really good list what do you think about Hifonics subs tho?

[Sephiroth619]

I think this thread answers most of that dreaded/repeated question:

"What _______ (speakers, subs, amps, etc...) should I get?"

Also, you don't hear much about Dayton Audio products. I absolutely love Dayton products. Super cheap and most if not all their products sound badass.

[el.duderino]

I would also go into the different schools of thought about xover point and comp sets:

4500-5000 Hz with metal or plastic domes (MBQ, Focal, Diamond)

2000-2500 with silk domes (Morel, Dyne, DLS, Alpine X and Scan/F1, a/d/s/)

The tweets in the latter set have a low mechanical resonance. Mechanical resonance is the limiting factor in tweeter xover design - you can't really go more than an octave above the mechnical resonance. (I reserve comment on the CDT 30dB/octave xover, or whatever, xover because it's not well documented as far as I know...)

So if you go pillar or mirror-sail mount with your tweeters, the comp sets in the latter half will play a full octave more energy up high than those in the former set. That keeps your image pretty high and your vocals in the windshield.

This effect is not distinguishable in most demo boards and requires some homework by a potential buyer... but it's a huge opportunity to improve sound for no more money.

[odwolfeiii]

Any particular reason the new Alphasonic line is not mentioned? How about the new Pioneer SPL subs?

[Benny Z]

park this thread...

[el.duderino]

Any particular reason the new Alphasonic line is not mentioned? How about the new Pioneer SPL subs?

I'd have to say that Alphasonik has a lot to answer for in their past before they get any props... and did you actually suggest Pioneer subs? Pioneer MAKES subs? Who know?

[odwolfeiii]

I'd have to say that Alphasonik has a lot to answer for in their past before they get any props... and did you actually suggest Pioneer subs? Pioneer MAKES subs? Who know?

Check these out.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn..._48141,00.html

[cam2Xrunner]

How flattering

[cam2Xrunner]

BTW you should fix those links, they don't work when copied from the shortened URL link. Original post can be found here

www toyotanation com / forum / t87095.html

Add in your own dots lol

[Sephiroth619]

In case you guys didn't figure it out, I borrowed the info from cam2Xrunner.

[cam2Xrunner]

Oops, I mispelled Big 3, not supposed to be big 2 lol.

Oh and good points Duderino.

When can I post URLs?

[Sephiroth619]

After 10 posts?

[cam2Xrunner]

After 10 posts?

That's a good idea.

[Anhnguyen310]

That's a good idea.

lol...nice to see you here too cam...this is actually the forum i went to before using toyotanation

[Nightscrawler]

Thanks a lot. What a great write up!

[exmaxima1]

I'd have to say that Alphasonik has a lot to answer for in their past before they get any props...

The latest gossip I heard was that Alphsonik is on the chopping block. Too much like Audiobahn and MA anyway...

Matthew

[7il]

bump for a good reference page. This should seriously be stickied!!

[xatlas0]

Great thread! Would have saved me a bit of time, had it been stickied.