Understanding and tuning with the 413 ECU

**techno550** · 10-21-2005, 11:28 AM

I tried starting a similar thread in the Track & autocross forum 6 months ago and it was mostly a flop.

Now with the interest in the turbo M50 stuff, perhaps the FI forum will be able to gather enough critical mass to get stuff done.

The 413 is used on the 93-95 325's as well as the 95 M3. So whatever is figured out will work on all of the above. EWS comes into play on the 95 ECU's at some point, and I have no knowledge of that system's workings, but perhaps that can be sorted as well.

What we know so far (or at least I think we know):
the EPROM used is a 27C512 (you'll want decently fast ones as well.)
The ECU uses an 8096 processor. (good luck finding a smart dissassembler though.

)

Well, thats about all we *know* at present.
we have a little more info on things like map locations and the likes, but not tons. Thats what I hope to find by having others trace the code as well.

**Scotth** · 10-21-2005, 12:26 PM

Are you trying to do custom tuning yourself?

**meseetree** · 10-21-2005, 12:51 PM

this will hepl me out a lot.
i hate that EWS crap.

**borealiss** · 10-21-2005, 01:00 PM

send me an image of a stock m3 rom at elhendric at yahoo dot com and i will do what i can to help out. if you have mods to your m3 that are incorporated in aftermarket software this will help too. for those of you that have dabbled with this before, is the firmware for the ecu and the data for fuel maps stored on the rom? or is it divided up into two chips? thanks.

**bmwperson** · 10-21-2005, 01:10 PM

finally someone has intrest in it, I have some info on the obd2 and I might have a disassembler/debugger/compiler for SAB80C166W, which i heard you can use a thompson software for that, as thompson made a "clone" chip of that. Oh yea and the eeproms you can pick up a cheap programmer...

**highboostingm3** · 10-21-2005, 01:26 PM

Congratulations for starting this thread!

What I am thinking is that it might take a very long time to get to the point of how Jim Conforti and Nick G. actually tackle the DME. So is everyone going to focus on burning chips like AA, RMS, TMS and all of them do first?

That way it will get the ball rolling with some cheap software until the actual flashing can happen.

Nick G. is done with custom software and from the people I have talked to it seems AA is also. They want people to use their product and not just do DIY or some other(TSI) kit and then come to them for the software. Which is understandable but doesn't help everyone wanting to do it differently.

I'm excited!

**techno550** · 10-21-2005, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Scotth

Are you trying to do custom tuning yourself?

I've done a little. Its nothing spectacular though. I was actually consdiering ditching the stock ECU alltogether and going with something like an AEM. its difficult to justify the cost on low budget projects though. It also doesn't "fix" the need for this sort of thing, which most people are starting to have.

Originally Posted by meseetree

this will hepl me out a lot.
i hate that EWS crap.

I don't know what can be done about EWS at present. I've heard there are ways to disable it though.

Originally Posted by borealiss

send me an image of a stock m3 rom at elhendric at yahoo dot com and i will do what i can to help out. if you have mods to your m3 that are incorporated in aftermarket software this will help too. for those of you that have dabbled with this before, is the firmware for the ecu and the data for fuel maps stored on the rom? or is it divided up into two chips? thanks.

Email sent. I might post the bin of the stock 325 ecu here if thats allowed.
The data and code are all stored in one ROM.

Originally Posted by bmwperson

finally someone has intrest in it, I have some info on the obd2 and I might have a disassembler/debugger/compiler for SAB80C166W, which i heard you can use a thompson software for that, as thompson made a "clone" chip of that. Oh yea and the eeproms you can pick up a cheap programmer...

I don't know if there is a large enough OBD-II initiative yet. I found a few interesting links on some relatively low cost flashing stuff for minis but it only allowed the flashing of their edited files. Tried contacting the company about remote tuning or buying an uber-license or some such that would allow for editing of the image as well, but no response. That was probably a year ago now though. I'll see if I can dig that info up and perhaps start an OBD-II version of this thread. (this one is intended to focus mainly on the 413 box.)

Originally Posted by highboostingm3

Congratulations for starting this thread!

What I am thinking is that it might take a very long time to get to the point of how Jim Conforti and Nick G. actually tackle the DME. So is everyone going to focus on burning chips like AA, RMS, TMS and all of them do first?
That way it will get the ball rolling with some cheap software until the actual flashing can happen.
Nick G. is done with custom software and from the people I have talked to it seems AA is also. They want people to use their product and not just do DIY or some other(TSI) kit and then come to them for the software. Which is understandable but doesn't help everyone wanting to do it differently.
I'm excited!

It will definately take a very long time to get to that point. They are able to not only edit the maps, but edit the code such that the maps have different sizes and scales. This will improve things such as drivability as there is less interpolation between the known data points.
The goal isn't to make something that will let anyone make a chip that is better than what AA or NickG can make. Heck, the goal isn't even to be able to make one as good as that yet. The goal is to be able to make one that works. One where we can edit the maps themselves. Most of what you pay for (actually, all of what you pay for) from AA and NickG isn't just that they can make a custom chip., its not just that they know how to change the values in the tables, its that they know WHAT to change those values to.
Even if we make a perfect tool, if left to the user, the user can still make a bad chip. Hopefully though, with enough interest and support, baseline chips will be able to be made generally available. I'd love to see baseline tunes for X injectors with Y MAF and Z turbo @ given boost. Nothing that would be "the best chip ever", but something that would be passable and safe as a good starting point for fine tuning.

**northeaste36** · 10-21-2005, 02:40 PM

why is it called the 413?

**bmwperson** · 10-21-2005, 02:45 PM

bosch part number

**northeaste36** · 10-21-2005, 02:52 PM

But the 93-95 325 and the 95 M3 use the Bosch DME M3.3.1. Is this the same as 413?

**bmwperson** · 10-21-2005, 02:53 PM

they are interchangable, not sure if they are the same. if someone has one snap a high res photo.

**bmwperson** · 10-21-2005, 02:55 PM

actually 413 is 3.3.1

**byron** · 10-21-2005, 02:58 PM

could this potentially work for a m52 converted to obd1?

**bmwperson** · 10-21-2005, 02:59 PM

yes, it would work

**dredder** · 10-22-2005, 03:48 AM

Heres an idea..
Why not get an image (bin file) of a JC performance chip (for example). Do the same with a stock chip. Compare both images and figure out what changes were made. You can also try to get a chip primary for turbo application (aa for example). Compare the data for both chips mention above. This way you have a better knowledege of what needs to be changed.

Since were dealing with motronic DME, maybe these links can be useful;
http://frwilk.com/944dme/
http://www.atlantisconsultingllc.com...ronic%20Editor

**e36'n** · 10-22-2005, 04:18 AM

What he said. I would imagine that would be the only way to start.

Where would I start for the 1992 non-vanos...402 or 403 (can't remember exactly which one).

**techno550** · 10-22-2005, 12:03 PM

To restate "where we are and what we think we might understand" I should probably link to the old thread.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=338847

**techno550** · 10-22-2005, 12:47 PM

the stock bin for a 413 box. (from a 94ish 325is.)
http://www.racersmarket.net/files/DME/413/stock413.BIN

**dredder** · 10-23-2005, 12:59 AM

I tried using the motronic editor to view the stock413.bin with no success. I wonder how much it would cost to purchase JC DME editor?

**Nico5spd** · 10-23-2005, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by dredder

I tried using the motronic editor to view the stock413.bin with no success. I wonder how much it would cost to purchase JC DME editor?

I dont think you can buy the jc dme editor at all anymore.

I used to fool around with GM ecms like this, however, after years of trying to decode the BINs, eventually we came accross a "bible" so to speak on how the chip was constructed, pretty neat stuff... was probally about 200 pages worth of locations, etc.

anyways, i tune with piggy backs now because everything else ive used wasnt a perfect tune (im using SMT-6s from perfect power, on a couple turbo applicatons). im down to help with what i can. im no software engineer, but in the end i have some cars here i can test it on easily.
Turbo/n-a, etc.

**borealiss** · 10-23-2005, 01:27 PM

anybody have a guide they can point me to on how to read fuel maps?

**bmwperson** · 10-23-2005, 02:41 PM

FYI I think the 8096 chip is the same family as 80196 etc there are a few companies that make disassemblers/debuggers for that cpu, keil,chipview,tasking... ill mess around with it when i get one.

**borealiss** · 10-24-2005, 10:00 AM

The C.A.T.S. disassembler seems to work pretty well. I believe I've found some fuel maps using a hex comparator. Check out the data that follows the hex string preamble "0e 0e 0e 0e 0c 10 10 5c". There are four instances I believe in the stock ECU program. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but fuel maps depend on a couple of parameters: load (manifold pressure), rpm, and gearing(?). I'm not that sure. I'm single stepping through the initial startup code. It'd really help if there was a 8096 emulator out there but I have not seen any. The code segments are actually unchanged which was surprising to me. I thought that they might actually change how the software interprets the data.

**5mall5nail5** · 10-24-2005, 01:29 PM

Ok,

I had looked at the motronic ROM editor, loaded a porsche 951 OE map.

Why does this not look so hard to do?

You have a map for partial throttle, which would indicate an off-boost acceleration/cruise, you have throttle percentage, rpm, and fuel trim.

You have a Full Throttle map, ie. when on boost, you have 0% throttle because the WOT switch is enabled. You have an RPM and a fuel trim. The trim is based in some what confusing increments on the RPM scale, but again, you adjust trim.

I know there's more science to it, and testing, but is this how we control air/fuel? I loaded the stock 413 ecu into it, and it didn't work really... everything in the File Contents was "null" (255). I think this is really interesting. I have a CS/EE background... if anyone is interested in figuring this shit out, I would be willing to brainstorm with a few of you tech guys. It would be very interesting to learn how to do this. And I think every one knows why

**Geno325is** · 10-24-2005, 01:43 PM

You have an EE background? I knew you were good at mathology-

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