Euro M3 Turbo Project details

[mertdastan]

http://www.da-motorsport.com/projele...onm3/index.htm

MERT

[LynxZ3r0]

It's boost porn !

[unr]

Didn't see a dyno anywhere? nothing that proves it has 1100hp? .... bs?

[mertdastan]

unr,

this is a 1k HP, and just look at the details....

[T-Rex]

Wow...that certainly goes a lot further towards helping prove your claims....now if you can get a dyno chart, the doubts will be put to rest. Out of curiosity, why dont you run a boost controller? It seems like having 1000hp on the twisty backroads of austria or germany might be somewhat dangerous, and in that case a low boost 500 or 600hp setting would be desired....

[and1c]

Well....what can I say Mert......that article was worth all of the time and trouble you took to put it together mate

It's clear that the car has been a labour of love and no matter what other posts you get off this forum I salute you for your hard work

It's obvious from the parts list alone that the engine internals are capable of 4 figure power (not sure about ancilleries like turbo though)... but a dyno or gtech would be the icing on the cake mate

I can also see why it took a while to come up with that web page....it's mahooosive.....!

As a sidenote...do you think the 1600cc injectors could be oversized and thus causing the overfuelling??...I mean..they must be near the limit surely??

Anyway...good stuff matey

[bigmansM]

If you leave a deposit
I will let you borrow my Gtech Meter.
I wish you had posted this a month ago, i was in turkey for a while. I could ahve personally delivered the gtech to you

[Concentric190]

sorry but I dont see a 71mm turbo comming close to 1000hp. Also the pictures may be deciving but that does not look like a 71mm turbo either, looks smaller.


"1.000 horsepower M3 Euro 3.2L turbocharger kit technical specifications:

- Horsepower: 1.000 @ 7800 rpm

- Torque: 1.070 nM ( 787 lb / ft) @ 4600 rpm"


how did you come up with those figures?

[MrBlonde]

There is nothing here to change any comments previously made.

[DefactoM6]

sorry but I dont see a 71mm turbo comming close to 1000hp. Also the pictures may be deciving but that does not look like a 71mm turbo either, looks smaller.


"1.000 horsepower M3 Euro 3.2L turbocharger kit technical specifications:

- Horsepower: 1.000 @ 7800 rpm

- Torque: 1.070 nM ( 787 lb / ft) @ 4600 rpm"


how did you come up with those figures?

Seriously.....must we all sound like broken records? I honestly don't understand why anyone would buy a kit claiming 1,000 horses...WITH NO WAY TO PROVE IT!!

I'm finding trouble believing that cast log manifold will handle a grand of horses. Like Concentric said, that turbo doesn't look like a 71mm turbo, but that's neither here nor there. I'm also having trouble believing a piggyback will get you 1,000 horses. Mert, seriously, prove me and everyone else wrong. Stop making baseless claims, get to a dyno, make your 1,000 HP, post the sheets all over your website. Hell, I even give you permission to use my posts on your site as a doubter that you proved wrong. And like Cameron promised, if you come back with a legit dyno sheet and corresponding video of this particular setup, as it sits right now, showing 1,000 hp, I'll dip a printout of the sheet in barbeque sauce and eat it, video it, and post it. I don't like being publicly humiliated, but I would do that. Wanna know why? Because I'm supremely confident that it just won't happen. I don't like ragging on people, their threads, their livelihood or their products, but when someone tells me that they'd like to sell me the brooklyn bridge...I just have no respect for them....

[highboostingm3]

That engineering is so good...(sniff sniff)...it brings tears to my eyes...FROM LAUGHTER!

[Concentric190]

That Looks like an AA manifold

[ADVANT123]

That engineering is so good...(sniff sniff)...it brings tears to my eyes...FROM LAUGHTER!

Although I'll admit its not pretty, it might be only the thing that fits. Aren't European M3s RHD?

[DefactoM6]

Only ones that are sold in england...and south africa...the rest are left hand drive....i think it would take a miracle to get anywhere close to 1000 out of a log manifold like that....oh hell, I'll go as far and say that it's impossible. Again Mert, the ball is in your court to prove me wrong...

[highboostingm3]

Although I'll admit its not pretty, it might be only the thing that fits. Aren't European M3s RHD?

You should see the exhaust manifold for Vader's car! I have seen it and it is amazing! It's a full tubular that has runners going underneath the engine to a collector. That is how it should be done!

[Armo95]

Dude, that page doesn't do jack to back your claims.

Get some real data before wasting space ... no 1000HP M3 is running M Contours.

[eurotekm3]

I emailed the guys over a DA Motorsports, they told me :

"hi, we have a kit for the US E36 328i, and this fits directly into the US M3, but you need to reprogram the software.

Basically, E36 US M3 and E36 328i have the same layout and share the same kit.

this kit comes with forged pistons and con rods and makes 600 hp at 22 psi. Price is $13,000 USD.

The engine management unit is called Haltech and can be programmed in USA."

[Geno325is]

He said the the inducer is 71mm , but the major could be possibly be a 102 like some GT42r

[EZ 2002]

Taken from DA Motorsport:
First of all, we would like to state that we owe a lot to Mr. Herbert Gattermeier in the desing of this exhaut system. Mr. Herbert Gattermeier is our master, who is an excellent person. Mr. Gattermeier trained us and we allways say that we are his students. Who is Herbert Gattermeier? He has studied motor vehicle engine design in Upper Austria, then worked for BMW in Munich, Porsche in Salzburg and then - for a little while - Masse-Ferguson in England. Afterwards he has established BAVARIACARS and modifies BMWs. His experience in turbocharging and great personality helped us a lot

This statement is not 100% accurate.

Herbert Gattermeier/Bavariacars Motorsport did not design the log turbo exhaust manifold that is fitted to the M3 featured on the DA Motorsport website.

Bavariacars Motorsport uses its own tuned length tubular turbo exhaust manifold. It was originally developed back in 1999 and fabricated by Herbert at the Bavariacars workshop in Sydney Australia. This setup was first used on an E36 M3 3.2L and is also used on Mr Blondes 10 second BMW M Coupe street car.

[Ubertino]

Did it look to anyone that the manifold had a very very small hole? Wouldn't this small hole kinda slow down the gases, thus slowing down the turbo, or something to that effect?

Couldn't I buy all these parts from somebody else (AA?) for less money?

[MrBlonde]

Only ones that are sold in england...and south africa...the rest are left hand drive....i think it would take a miracle to get anywhere close to 1000 out of a log manifold like that....oh hell, I'll go as far and say that it's impossible. Again Mert, the ball is in your court to prove me wrong...

Well you've kind of got it around the wrong way. All E36 M3s in the world came with the S50B32 and S50 B30 engines, most of which are left hand drive (LHD) and some of which are right hand drive (RHD).

The only exception is for the US market which has the US spec engines. There is no "euro" version .. the only special version is the S50US engined cars.

Countries that are RHD include England, Australia, Japan, South Africa, New Zealand ..

[MrBlonde]

Taken from DA Motorsport:
First of all, we would like to state that we owe a lot to Mr. Herbert Gattermeier in the desing of this exhaut system. Mr. Herbert Gattermeier is our master, who is an excellent person. Mr. Gattermeier trained us and we allways say that we are his students. Who is Herbert Gattermeier? He has studied motor vehicle engine design in Upper Austria, then worked for BMW in Munich, Porsche in Salzburg and then - for a little while - Masse-Ferguson in England. Afterwards he has established BAVARIACARS and modifies BMWs. His experience in turbocharging and great personality helped us a lot

This statement is not 100% accurate.

Herbert Gattermeier/Bavariacars Motorsport did not design the log turbo exhaust manifold that is fitted to the M3 featured on the DA Motorsport website.

Bavariacars Motorsport uses its own tuned length tubular turbo exhaust manifold. It was originally developed back in 1999 and fabricated by Herbert at the Bavariacars workshop in Sydney Australia. This setup was first used on an E36 M3 3.2L and is also used on Mr Blondes 10 second BMW M Coupe street car.

I think what Mert is saying is that he wants to acknowledge that Herbert and Erik at Bavariacars in Australia (home base to my M Coupe) have provided many answers to his questions over the last 4 years or so. Mert has lots of questions but doesn't always like the answers he gets!

I think what Erik is making clear is that Bavariacars have nothing to do with Mert's kits, the design of his exhaust manifold or his market offerings or claims.

Bavariacars designed and built my M Coupe (as well as other turbocharged cars like E36 318is and E36 M3) and are proud of their achievements. Take a look at www.bavariacars.com.au if you are interested.

Just don't confuse Mert's engineering outcomes with Erik's!

[MrBlonde]

Although I'll admit its not pretty, it might be only the thing that fits. Aren't European M3s RHD?

My exhaust manifold doesn't look like that and it fits just fine on my RHD M Coupe. Since it traps at 136 MPH on my street car with pump gas I figure it's making reasonable power.

[FSAEracer03]

DA guys...

Seriously, the motors are broken in and we all want to see 4-digit figures from your E46 and E39 beasts. Some of us want to prove YOU wrong, but the rest of us just want an actual dyno pull to shit our pants with.

Seriously, you guys are doing some seriously risky business cranking as much boost as you do... but even more risky is promoting it without empirical data. Analytical is great for design, poor for marketing.

What I'm trying to say is... you guys are the best out there right now. Take the E46 and E39 to the dyno and SHOW us you are the best!! Please!

EDIT... oh yeah, this isn't the E46... ok, bring this one too

EDIT2... ok, I must say I'm disappointed now. I just noticed that the turbo used is a 71mm. The inducer can "only" intake enough air to feed ~835hp or so. I could go through a length derivation of why that is so, but simply put there is a direct correlation between inducer bore (namely housing intake area) and horsepower capabilites. In other words, it's a second order relationship between hp and inducer bore.

..I still want to see that E46 and (even better) the E39 get 4-digits, though!!

[and1c]

I do agree with all the posters though who say with a cast log manifold such as the AA one on your car Mert that 1000 bhp is impossible (though I still love the internal components of the engine!)


Also, and I'm not being funny when I say this Mert but you really need to sub contract your TIG Welding and fabrication work out to a company who knows how to make high quality components....

The inlet manifold is by no means an optimum design and the main inlet pipe is way small in my opinion as well as beinge poorly fabricated....(as are a LOT of the pipes in the system in my eyes

just as highboosting M3 has said about the rear downpipe shown in the picture in his post higher up the page.....









Now this is how a beautiful manifold is made Mert.....and just look at that tubing

massive and all metal boost pipes etc etc....(and look at the size of this turbo on 1200 bhp dynoed Swedish M5 engine)

Incidentally, does anyone on this forum know what make of turbo this beauty is?? Is it a turbonetics??