Final Results - RMS Stg II + Technique Tuning Tuning : Write Up & Dyno Graphs

[///MDex]

Link

First of all:

Technique Tuning exceeded my expectations with regard to customer service. I was always able to get Nick on the phone, and he always took the time to address all my concerns and questions. The same applies to email. Communication was always great. After the first tune, and pulls on a Sat, Nick called me on Sunday to see how things were going. That's customer service. I could not be any happier with Technique Tuning. The maxim still applies - You get what you pay for.

Final-Project Pulls 03-05
- Same Dyno as Pre-Project Pulls
- No pusher/cooler fan up front [hurt the progressive numbers I think]
- ~85*F ambient temps
- SAE Corrected; Smoothing = 5
- NickG - Technique Tuning
- RMS Stg II with 3.5 HFM, max boost ~10psi
- at time of pulls, LONGFT1 & 2 were 0.8 and -0.8

My end goals are met: safe, reliable, great tune, smooth power



I welcome your feedback

[///Dom]

First of all:

Technique Tuning exceeded my expectations with regard to customer service. The maxim still applies - You get what you pay for.

Being a new Nick G customer myself, I can vouch for this. Matter of fact, even before I was a customer, Nick offered his assistance several times and gave me real-world solutions to problems with my RMS setup. After not getting any help or response from AA (who I paid to do my original tuning) about these same problems and high AFRs, I decided to go with the person that was willing and able to help...Nick G. Honest and friendly customer service that's available when you need it will earn my loyalty and $'s anytime!

My end goals are met: safe, reliable, great tune, smooth power

Though I've yet to have my car dyno'd, this is what Nick has offered to deliver. Based on your charts and others that have Nick's software, I have no doubts I will see the same results. Congrats!

[96cosmosM3]

What are the before numbers? Only found a NA dyno chart

[M3TurboCa]

Looks good.

I am just wondering why from 6100 you are going richer than 12's is that what you asked Nick to do and into the deep low 11's till 6600rpm till it goes leaner still not bad at 12.9 at 6900rpm.

If you look on the a/f where it goes richer to the power rpm it seems to flatten out ? Maybe if you are going to touch up the a/f you can ask Nick to keep it on the top end close to 12.0's if you want to be safe. For a bit more power mid 12's?

Just that I have usually seen Nick a/f much flatter than that maybe you need his 42lbs to have Nick straighten out your a/f.

[tjn182]

I was actually wondering the same thing - I didn't wanna open the question sounding ignorant.
But those A/F readings are a little high to me also

[bimmerpwr]

Looks great! I agree, Nick G is one of the most helpful people out there for us FIed BMW owners. I do not have his software personally, but he always has been there for any questions that I've had.

One question, is there a reason why red AFR was about 1 point lower than other two runs? (13s Vs 12s AFR).

[paul e]

Looks good.

I am just wondering why from 6100 you are going richer than 12's is that what you asked Nick to do and into the deep low 11's till 6600rpm till it goes leaner still not bad at 12.9 at 6900rpm.

If you look on the a/f where it goes richer to the power rpm it seems to flatten out ? Maybe if you are going to touch up the a/f you can ask Nick to keep it on the top end close to 12.0's if you want to be safe. For a bit more power mid 12's?

Just that I have usually seen Nick a/f much flatter than that maybe you need his 42lbs to have Nick straighten out your a/f.

I was under the impression that this car Did have the bigger injectors.. Because, when I had the Dinan injectors, I couldnt get Nearly that rich on top with nearly that boost level. AT 6500, where he is at 10 to 11:1 depending on the run, I couldnt be any richer than 12.5 to 13:1 because I ran out of injector. Below is a pic of my stage II Rms result with the 42 pounders, euro hfm, and Nicks tuning.

[SickFinga]

Can anyone explain how Marco gets 415rwhp in his car with the same setup??

[///MDex]

Thanks all for the feedback.

96cosmosM3: the before pulls are the NA numbers, the "Pre-Project Pulls"

M3TurboCa: Ha! No, I wasn't that specific with Nick. I gave Nick the directive of 'keep it safe and reliable' and he worked his magic, and this is the result. Later we may revisit the tune, but at this point, I'm pretty satisifed. FWIW, my injectors are Lucas 38#. Nick tuned accordingly.

tjn182: no worries about ignorant questions; that's my realm

bimmerpwr: I'm not really sure honestly. I think it may have to do with there being no pusher fan coupled with 85*F temps, and add to that, my runs were pretty much on top of one another. I'm open to ideas Its odd that it was the middle run. Perhaps the dyno equipment?

paul e: right, see above 38# [dude, nice run-viewer colors there ]

Hopefully Nick can chime in as to the 'why' quetions since he's the guru

[jmc]

Mdex,

I am glad everthing is working out. When to you do a boost bump? I thought our set ups were making 9 psi? Good numbers!

JMC

[paul e]

Can anyone explain how Marco gets 415rwhp in his car with the same setup??

Marco doesnt have any where near the same setup.. He has:

M50 Manifold, Headers, Special exhaust collector, Plus a boatload of other custom changes and fixes. Plus, he has tuning pushed to the limit, and he then augments it for dyno runs with race gas.

[///MDex]

Mdex,I am glad everthing is working out. When to you do a boost bump? I thought our set ups were making 9 psi? Good numbers! JMC

Thanks, I got your email. Right at 10psi At 7k. I could get a few more out of it I guess, but the numbers are't the biggest priority; safe and reliable first, then power. I think I'd need to add/upgrade a couple other supportive systems before I add more power.

[SickFinga]

Marco doesnt have any where near the same setup.. He has:

M50 Manifold, Headers, Special exhaust collector, Plus a boatload of other custom changes and fixes. Plus, he has tuning pushed to the limit, and he then augments it for dyno runs with race gas.

From what I remember he has
M50 manifold, RMS headers, AA track pipe, some carback, plasma coils, water injection.

But still, there is a 100rwhp difference WHICH IS ALOT.

p.s. race gas could be a reason though, who knows.

[Croak]

Those don't look like typical NickG AFR's, or rather, very exaggerated versions of Nick's trending on remote tunes. Midrange on Run 9 is a bit on the scary side.

Were all three runs done back to back? Odd that the AFRs change so much in one session.

Also, pretty sure that some of the leaning out at the end of the run is just an artifact of the throttle being lifted.

If you can stay on the north side of 12:1 in the 6k range there's decent power to be had, you're just too rich in the top-end IMHO, more than is needed for safety.

[M3TurboCa]

How much boost are you running by 5500rpm? If you look on Paul a/f his is much smoother and 12's by 5500rpm.

On two of your runs your a/f looks like 13.1 you should be richer.

[///3oris]

Have you checked for belt slip? How much time was spent between runs? Your power drops off with subsuquent runs like on a non-aftercooled setup... probably a result of no fan (heat soak)?

Very nice LTFT's... at least it shows your part-throttle tuning is dead on.

Boris

[paul e]

>>Were all three runs done back to back? Odd that the AFRs change so much in one session. <<

Good question. wondering, how much time between runs.. What this looks like to me is, its reminiscent of when I went to the dyno, before my aftercooler. As the heatsoak would grow, the power would come down on subsequent runs as spark was pulled to compensate, and afrs would be much less consistant than they are now. Mdex, Im thinking the lack of dyno fan is making your car behave similar to the way mine did before the aftercooler.

[sgi4side]

Quick question are you running 93 oct gas there?

[bimmerpwr]

>>Were all three runs done back to back? Odd that the AFRs change so much in one session. <<

Good question. wondering, how much time between runs.. What this looks like to me is, its reminiscent of when I went to the dyno, before my aftercooler. As the heatsoak would grow, the power would come down on subsequent runs as spark was pulled to compensate, and afrs would be much less consistant than they are now. Mdex, Im thinking the lack of dyno fan is making your car behave similar to the way mine did before the aftercooler.

Maybe I am mistaken, but I think MDex didn't have aftercooler fan for the dyno...not the dyno fan.

If it was just the aftercooler fan that was not on, it should not make much difference as long as you have a big dyno fan blowing at it.

Otherwise, I think Paul is right. If this was without dyno fan, things can look abnormal as you put your car through more dyno runs...

[///MDex]

Croak: the only thing I can think of that has shown odd AFRs is the fact that I did not have a fan blowing on front of the car. The runs were done right on top of one another, without cutting off the engine, with about 2 min in between each run

M3TurboCa: not sure how much boost. I’ll look at my Mustang dyno plots to get that info

///3oris:not sure on the belt slip; I don’t think so. Just a minute or two between runs. I too think it was heat soak. I may re-dyno in the near future and make sure he has a fan present

sgi4side: Yep, 93

bimmerpwr: no, no. I have the RMS aftercooler and heat exchanger, and the fan on the heat exchanger runs when the ignition is turned to position 2. I didn’t have a fan blowing on the front of the car.

Heat soak: I really think this is the issue for the odd AFRs.

Thanks all.

One other thing that is odd. The graph came from me loadingf the dynojet run files on my desktop at home. This morning, I loaded the *same* dynojet run files on my laptop, and the numbers were slightly different. I’ll post that graph later today

[bimmerpwr]

Gawd...they dynoed your car without a dyno fan???

[M3TurboCa]

Your run 10 was the middle run so it's a bit weird that a/f was off?

Anyway what kind of dyno place is that did not have a front fans blowing on your car they should be more experienced and know better than that. Ask them what was with that no fans ??

You would definately have heat soak and there should be a cool down period with the fan running for at least 10 mins between runs to make them consistant.

With heat soak the dme might also richen up the mixture to help keep things cool.

If you go back there make sure those have a good fan blowing over your rad.

[Dark Helmet]

I love looking at pauls dyno chart.... that thing will run till we are all dead and still be going strong....

and jeez man, no fan????? YIPE!

[NickG]

Considering the conditions (no dyno fan), MDex's results were pretty good. The varying AFRs can be attributed not only to insufficient cooling, but also to taking the readings post-cats.

Keep in mind that the cats store oxygen. Varying the amount of time that the vehicle idles or is driven at part throttle, before going WOT, can vary the AFR reading when taken post-cat.

[paul e]

Considering the conditions (no dyno fan), MDex's results were pretty good. The varying AFRs can be attributed not only to insufficient cooling, but also to taking the readings post-cats.

Keep in mind that the cats store oxygen. Varying the amount of time that the vehicle idles or is driven at part throttle, before going WOT, can vary the AFR reading when taken post-cat.

So Thats it !!!! I mean, I cant find it now, but i remember some time ago, you gave me a dyno procedure, that included maybe half a minute of just rolling the dyno at part throttle, before nailing it.. After reading this, I bet it was to help scour out the O2 from the cat to make the results more consistant, and accurate wrt pre cat measurements..

Ive done Dyno runs using the tailpipe sniffer, and then street runs, and Ive found them to be Very very close, but thats probably because the dyno measurements were done using this method of scouring the O2. Also, I would think that, above 4000 rpms youd have the best chance of being most accurate, because by then, the O2 would likely be out of the picture. Also, I think if I came upon a dyno, and it had no fan, Id disconnect and drive away. Its almost the same as dynoing without the aftercooler.. With NO air moving through the exchanger, theres nothing to cool the water, and with hot water, you might as well have no aftercooler at all. Subsequent runs would be done with increasingly high temps in the aftercooler, and in short order, that aftercooler becomes an 'afterheater'! That helps to explain exactly whats happening.. NOw that I view the data with this knowledge, I agree that the results arent half bad at all, considering.

>>I love looking at pauls dyno chart<<

Thanks man! I like it too And its NOT just those pretty colors either.. .lol Im thinking that going with the M50 manifold will make a pretty big difference too.. Look at my hp plot at 6500 rpms.. Notice how it had been climbing, but flattens out from 6500 to 7000rpms, and isnt allowed to climb? Air flow limits brought on by the M52 mani restriction. It looks to me like this could gain another ~15 whp from 6500 to 7k rpms with the bigger runners. Incidentally, you can see the exact same thing on Mdex's plot.

>>Heat soak: I really think this is the issue for the odd AFRs<<

Mdex, next time you run, take some IAT measurements. Think about this. After driving gently, ie, cruising for awhile, with no wot blasts, Ill come to a stop and go shopping. Ill take the IAT measurement before turning the car off. Say its 80 degrees out.. Ill typically read under these conditions about 115 degrees IAT. But when I come back 20 minutes later, the IAT has climbed to around 140 degrees! I will find similar results if, after driving, I come to a stop, and let it idle for 15 minutes. This condition mymics what a car will see on a dyno, between runs, if it has no big cooling fan, and is evidence that at least partially explains what you are seeing. In addition, on the dyno, while the time between runs is shorter than my hypothetical 15 minute idle time, this is partially offset by the fact that in my example, I had been only cruising before entering the idle state, whereas on the dyno youre causing IATs to rise precipitously before entering this idle state by doing the wot blast to redline. NO dyno cooling fan, and a practically useless 8" hayden pusher fan, will both help really maximize IA temps between and during subsequent runs.