Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: big brakes on e21

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    Posts
    155
    My Cars
    1987 325ix

    big brakes on e21

    i posted a thread about this a lil while back and i am still curious what people have for brakes on there e21's. And second will e28 m5 brakes work on this car, because i have a guy who will sell me a setup off a m6 and wondered if it would work if you had the brakes,hubs,and spindles. Thanks in advance

    RvS
    Looking for clean chassis 2002 with no drive-train. Somewhere in norcal or Reno area.

    PM me with details

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    North Idaho, sometimes
    Posts
    2,141
    My Cars
    No BMW's currently
    I run '77 vented brakes with Porterfield R4S carbon/kevlar pads and stainless braided hoses. Pretty good set up for "enthusiastic" driving. But I want more braking too. 5 lug hubs would be a huge benifit too, BMW 15" 5 bolt wheels sell much cheaper than e21 15" wheels.

    The only bolt on solution I know of is e9 disk brakes. E28 hubs use a completly different bearing set up. I don't know if the struts/spindles will bolt on, I doubt it.

    Having said that, I have an E28 front hub in my garage to check out and see if I can fab an adapter to mount it on an e21 spindle. I did something similar to put Porsch 944 disk brakes on my '68 VW bug. I think it is quite possible so then an adapter to mount the caliper would be needed, not too difficult to figure out. I have not looked at e28 rear hubs/axles yet. This project is down the list a ways but I will get to it eventually. Maybe I'll cruise the local Pick-a-Part for an e28 strut housing to see if it could be made to work.

    ken

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    11,867
    My Cars
    E21, E24, M3
    Ken dont forget about the Girling BBK from Volvos, they are a great addition (from what I hear). You just need to get an e12 MC with dual lines per side or you can use a T-connection by the spindles themselves.

    Listed the girlings are 4pistons calipers and vented disk, with 2-bleeders per side, you can find a set at the wrecker and exchange them at your local parts store for a recon. set for reasonibly cheap

    Aardvark sells the whole shebang

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    North Idaho, sometimes
    Posts
    2,141
    My Cars
    No BMW's currently
    True, I forgot about the Volvo calipers. They have about twice the pad area and grip as the stock calipers and can still fit inside the stock wheels. I have an old write up on it form the old e21 digest. I'll see if I can find it.

    ken

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    gilbert, az
    Posts
    3,165
    My Cars
    81 320i
    yeah, i have that front volvo/girling 4-piston caliper w/ vented discs & e12 (25mm) master cylinder setup....the brake pedal feel is very much improved & the car stops noticably faster.
    but lately, i've been having an itch for more braking power....enter a rear disc brake conversion from either a 323i or a kit from, i think ireland engineering or ardvarck...or just go straight to wilwood or stoptech

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    North Idaho, sometimes
    Posts
    2,141
    My Cars
    No BMW's currently
    Here's the old post from the e21 digest (pre-forum internet).

    Original post in 1997 by Jack Roberts

    Subject: Girling Caliper Upgrade

    Several folks have asked about upgrading E21 front brakes, so the following is one of the most popular methods I am familiar with. This upgrade provides about 50% more pad area than stock E21 calipers and the tighter squeeze advantage of a 4 piston caliper.

    I did this upgrade five or six years ago so my memory may be a little fuzzy, but here goes. The calipers you want are Girling 4-piston type for vented rotors. Thse willfit the standard E21 3" mouning centers and use '77 320i or '78-'83 323i (they are the same) vented rotors. These calipers are found on 260 series Volvos (and some Jaguars) from about 1975 on. Be careful though as Volvo used both ATE and Girling calipers on these models during this period. Also most did NOT have vented brakes so they may be a little hard to find at your local salvage yard. The good news is that rebuilt ones are only about $50 apiece. Also, this installation requires the installation of a tee in the brake line on each front strut and the addition of two pieces of about 8-inch long brake line since the Girling calipers require two inputs instead of the BMW/ATE calipers's one. You also need to use appropriate washers (about 1-mm thick if I remember correctly) between the new calipers and their mounting points in order to center them from side to side on the rotors. When you put everything back together you will find the Girling caliper's pads hang over the edge of the BMW rotors about 2 or 3 mm. This is because the Volvo rotors they were designed to be used with are 260mm in diameter as opposed to the BMW's 255mm diameter. If you really want to get fancy you can slot the Girling calipers"s mounting holes and aligned everything perfectly. I have not done this and have not had any problem, however. BTW this upgrade can also be used on non-tii 2002 front struts by using the '80-'83 320i (not 323i) hubs and vented E21 rotors. In my mind this upgrade makes a lot of sense if you are planning on upgrading to vented calipers anyway. Why not only get bigger pads at the same time and the fact that the Girling calipers are actually considerably cheaper than vented 320i/323i (ATE) calipers is another advantage.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    81 323i with 2.7
    78 Alpina B6 2.8

    I have not done this conversion myself but it does sound interesting and not difficult. I expect a rush on the Pick-a-Part yards accross the nation....

    Also remember this was written 7 years ago and the conversion was done 12 years ago so prices have certainly gone up. Don't be disapointed when your local FLAPS (Friendly Local Auto Parts Store) counter person laughs when you want these calipers for $50 ea.

    ken

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Fremont, CA but from Seattle
    Posts
    152
    My Cars
    1996 m3
    I might have to go to the yard this weekend. Is there a specific year i need for the e12 m/c? Are there any upgrades for the rear? I have the 323 setup right now.


    They're all gone!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    gilbert, az
    Posts
    3,165
    My Cars
    81 320i
    yeah, upgrade the rear to 320i drums.....and give your rear 323i brakes to me

    j/k, unless u want to

    i've heard that e30 rear disk brakes & calipers are a bolt-on to the e21 323i rear disk setup.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    11,867
    My Cars
    E21, E24, M3
    All 3 of the guys over at IE say that there is absolutly no difference between the rear drums and the rear disk, dont know how valid there point was. Ofcourse this is only for street use. You ever notice the size of the rear drums compared to cars nowadays? They are flippen huge

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    939
    My Cars
    1982 320i
    Yeah, the drums on todays Kia's Nissans and Toyotas to name some that I can think of off hand that I've seen have crazy small drums in the rear. The only vehicals I've seen with drums our size or bigger are trucks. My truck and my dad's 2000 Frontier both have beefy drums in the back.

    Though I'd like to one day do the 323i brake conversion myself. It wouldn't be bad thing to do, but it's not high on the priority list.
    1982 320i - 86xxx miles and not moving for now.
    Sound : Sony Cassette + 10 disk changer, Pioneer speakers, 10'' Boss sub x 2 --- Suspesion : H&R lowering springs, Bilstien Sport shocks all around.
    1995 Mitsubishi Mighty Max - 84,xxx miles
    Broken A/C, but proving to be damn reliable. Sound : 2 Boston Acustic Speakers, 8'' Punch Sub, 350 watt Kenwood amp, Pioneer CD player. Best 3 speaker system I've ever heard.

    One thing at a time, the m42 comes next.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,763
    My Cars
    E21 320i, e39 540i/6

    Volvo front brakes

    I have done this conversion. It was fairly straight forward, but the calipers I bought overhung the rotors by exactly 7mm, not the 3mm that I often see posted. I had to slot them to get them down to 1mm overhang (I used a carbide bit and die grinder), and also used 1.5mm washers to center the calipers on the rotor. I actually went to the hardware store with calipers (measuring calipers) and measured washers to make sure I had all the same thickness (washers tolerances aren't too tight). You also have to trim the backing plate to get the calipers to fit. I bought my calipers brand new for about $60 each at http://fcpgroton.com/volvo240brake.htm, but prices have gone up since then. I bought part #5002028X and 5002029X, a hardware kit, and metal master pads.

    Unslotted caliper with 7mm overhang.


    Slotted holes.


    Calipers mounted after slotting the holes, only 1mm overhang now. This put the caliper so far back that i had to grind a little material off of the front strut where the caliper mounting bolt holes are for brake pad clearance. BTW, I have the clips installed backwards in the pic, they should be over the metal backing plate on the pads.

    I decided to use the E21 master cylinder for now because I already had a new one. I used a metric brake "T", bought mine from a VW supplier, but its the exact same "T" that is used in the rear brake circuit. Also, If you are doing a big front brake swap and a rear disk conversion, you should consider an adjustable proportioning valve. I used a Wilwood valve (bought from summitracing.com) pretty cheap, and looks good too. I had to use a combination of metic and SAE bubble and inverted bubble flares to adapt it into the system. Summit's wilwood valve is SAE, but I have read that Ireland Engineering sells a metric version.

    Front brake line routing. I bought brake metric brake lines at Autozone for a few bucks (along with their rent-a-tool cutter and flare kit) and bent my lines by hand. Despite the single circuit split to 2, the brake pedal feel isn't too soft for my tastes. An E12 cylinder is the best way to go though.



    Proportioning valve placement. A great spot for easy adjustment. Or you can run the line up into the passenger compartment for in car adjustment.


    I removed and bypassed the stock proportioning valve with a female-female brake line connector.


    Rear disks. Stock E21 323i.

    E30 calipers fit with minor modification, have about 30 % more pad area and are much much cheaper. If I recall correctly, the hole spacing is the same but the holes in the e30 calipers are threaded (the bolts pass through the trailing arm and thread into the caliper), which is the opposite of the E21, where the bolts pass throught the caliper and thread into the trailing arms. So you simply drill out the threads. Disks offer several advantages over drums. They fade less, the stock 323i disks offer more stopping power to compliment bigger front brakes, you can upgrade to e30 calipers which offer even more stopping power, and they don't require adjustment (those adjusting bolt heads always seem to get stripped!)
    Last edited by jrcook320; 10-05-2006 at 06:10 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    11,867
    My Cars
    E21, E24, M3
    Quick question. What happens to the brake sensor wire? The girlings dont have this feature. So do you just complete the circut with an old BSW so the light doesnt stay on?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,763
    My Cars
    E21 320i, e39 540i/6

    brake sensor

    I always thought the brake sensor worked the other way around, but I could be wrong. Here's how I assumed it works: If you look at it, its plastic coated. When pads are new, the circuit is broken by the plastic barrier and the dash light is off. As the pads wear, so does the plastic, until the metal sensor eventually contacts the rotor, where it completes the circuit and the dash light comes on...

    I'm not running a sensor, I have that part of the harness clipped and tucked neatly in behind the break booster so it stays dry. no dash light. maybe my bulb is burnt out

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Fremont, CA but from Seattle
    Posts
    152
    My Cars
    1996 m3
    That was a great response jrcook320. Lotsa help. As for the e12 m/c is there specific model/year i need to get or any e12 mc will work? Also do i need a porportioning valve w/ the e12 mc or is it already bias?

    Jbob that trade just sounds too good to be true. I can't rip you off like that. There is however a guy parting a 323 here in wa. If you need any parts try to catch me on aim.

    Here's a pic after installed the 323 stuff. No where close to being as clean as yours jrcook320.
    Attached Images Attached Images


    They're all gone!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    318
    My Cars
    09 Impreza, 96 Escort GT

    Rear Discs

    I switched over to the 323 rear discs a while back, and for normal every day driving there is not alot of difference, but when you start hitting the brakes at high speeds it is night and day. I highly suugest them, for the front i am running the stock 77 setup, now i dont do alot of autox but for normal street use in a car that see's 140+mph i fell very confident in my brakes.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,763
    My Cars
    E21 320i, e39 540i/6
    bmwm3e30,
    Thanks.. It took countless hours of sandblasting, grinding, and painting to get stuff that clean. The name is Josh, by the way. I don't know of any changes in e12 mast cyl's over the years, as long as they run 4 circuit to the front...

    '81 320i turbo | t25, 931 CIS, 240hp, 13.92@100mph | 2.2L m10 Turbo Build | My E21 Videos |

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    22
    My Cars
    '82 BMW 320i, '74 Ford Bronco

    Disks/drums etc

    I would agree that the drums in the back work just as well as disks for street use. There are 2 issues though:
    1. For track use they get hot and stay hot.
    2. To keep them working optimally I was always having to adjust the darn things. I hated adjusting the brakes, especially at a track day after they have reached branding temps.

    I worked with Dave Varco at Arrdvarc racing on getting his '02 set-up to fit on the E21. I have been really happy with it. About the same cost as a used 323 set-up but everything is new and the e-brake is built into the caliper. I don't get any sort of comission or anything from him.

    Todd

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York,USA-Athens,Greece
    Posts
    205
    My Cars
    1994 325i, 1978 316
    Hi all, I have a set of Girling calipers being rebuilt now for my car. Before I install them, can anyone confirm that these fit under the stock 13" wheels? Thanks.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    gilbert, az
    Posts
    3,165
    My Cars
    81 320i
    the girling 4-piston calipers?
    nope, i don't think they'll fit under 13" wheels......they might fit 14", and they definately fit under 15".

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    324
    My Cars
    81 323i, 88 545is, 97 528i
    iI have mounted 13 inch steelies with the girlings on the car.

    Never say never.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    Posts
    155
    My Cars
    1987 325ix
    thanks all for your replies, but what if you had around 270WHP and needed something to bring it down from fast speeds quickly. You would need a good amount of pad surface but also a good sized rotor. I am thinking of a brake setup that is track worthy but street/race driven. Let me know if you know anyone who has a pretty crazy setup on there e21. It seems korman's website has some good options but im sure the price is right near ridiclous, so im looking for something i can piece together myself.

    Thanks in advance,

    RvS
    Looking for clean chassis 2002 with no drive-train. Somewhere in norcal or Reno area.

    PM me with details

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    gilbert, az
    Posts
    3,165
    My Cars
    81 320i
    VACmotorsports offer a wilwood brake kit for the E21

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    Posts
    273
    My Cars
    1983 e21 320/6 2.3l stroker; Citroen ZX 1.8i Wagon
    Just did mine!

    Girling Caliper - Left - cleaned up, right - as supplied, new old stock.


    Painting WIP



    Mounted - Wheels off



    Mounted - Wheels on



    Calipers' paintwork need to be touched up. Will do when I have time.

    Rear Disc -


    Rear Calipers - Wheel mounted



    Thanks to JRCook and others for the information and guidance.
    Power is nothing without control.
    http://www.frappr.com/bmwe21ownersaroundtheglobe



    1983 e21 320/6
    1998 Citroen ZX 1.8i SW

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    San Pedro, CA
    Posts
    342
    My Cars
    E21, E34, E39, POS2015VW
    I just got the Girling 4 piston calipers. There is no holder/ bracket. Will my stock ATE bracket fit ? Am I good to go with stock rotors? I know I need to fabricate the line with a T coupling and buy brake pads. Am I missing anything else?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Linden, NJ
    Posts
    37
    My Cars
    82 E21, 06 X3, 09 E90
    Thanks for sharing all of this info guys. Iv been trying to find a less expensive alternative myself.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •