Installing Subwoofer and Amp to Stock System

[clumpymold]

Hey all,

I tried searching for this but couldn't find anything helpful.

At any rate, I'll be attempting to install a subwoofer (most likely 10", not sure which brand yet) and an amp into my car. It is currently pretty much stock (stock headunit anyway). I plan to upgrade the headunit soon but just took the subwoofer and amp out of my other car.

Anyway, I at least have the subwoofer enclosure (with some old Kicker 10" subwoofer). I'm planning on swapping out that crappy subwoofer with another one (thinking JL 10w3, 6, or 7) and a new amp, depending on power needs.

What will I have to do to install this? Can I just tap into my existing HK amp and utilize the remote wire and low frequency wires? Or does it not have those wires? Will I have to go into my stock headunit and wire some RCAs? I think I could get the remote wire from my amp but not sure which wire that is. And if the low frequency wires are at the amp, which ones are those?

Thanks all!

Curtis

clumpymold@sbcglobal.net

[clumpymold]

No one knows? I would like to do this this weekend.

[speedster]

if your amp can handle it you can go high level in. you will just need to find te side which has the singnal non amplifies since most locs cant handle an amplified signal. and loc is a line out put converter. converts high level into low level. and for a remote all you need is a keyed sorce. im sure there would be one at your amp. hope i helped some

[clumpymold]

Originally Posted by speedster

if your amp can handle it you can go high level in. you will just need to find te side which has the singnal non amplifies since most locs cant handle an amplified signal. and loc is a line out put converter. converts high level into low level. and for a remote all you need is a keyed sorce. im sure there would be one at your amp. hope i helped some

Hey,

Thanks for the reply.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by LOC. Can't I just find a signal going to the amp that is sort of reserved only for low frequencies and just use those? Or does the stock HK amp not have those wires?

As for the remote, I think I can just tap into the one found on the stock amp.

Anyone actually done this before? I'm SURE a few of you have at least installed an aftermarket subwoofer. Anyone?

[neeCo]

My dad's friend will be installing an aftermarket amp and speakers this friday on my car because i just bought an alpine deck. Ill let u know how it goes then.

[clumpymold]

Originally Posted by ShockaxDemised

My dad's friend will be installing an aftermarket amp and speakers this friday on my car because i just bought an alpine deck. Ill let u know how it goes then.

Sweet. Are you replacing the stock amp or adding it? I'll be keeping my stock HK one (to be used for the components) but adding one just for my subs.

[neeCo]

Originally Posted by clumpymold

Sweet. Are you replacing the stock amp or adding it? I'll be keeping my stock HK one (to be used for the components) but adding one just for my subs.

Im going to be keeping my stock HK system. Im just adding to it.

[clumpymold]

Anybody else here add to their stock system? I'm SURE someone has simply added a subwoofer and amp.

Please help. I would like to do this tomorrow or sometime soon.

[325ipilot]

You either have the c33 or the CD43 right? Considering you have HK.

What you need to do is look at the wiring diagram for the stereo, and find the rear channels (or front channels) before they enter the amp, at the amp harness plug. You can tap into those, dont do it after the amp, as it has internal crossovers. The outputs of the C33 and CD43 are basically preamp level, so you can solder RCA's to your new wires, and plug them directly into your sub amp.

Make sure the amp you select has a low pass crossover, so you can control the sub. Also the remote turn on is also available in the amplifier harness.

e-mail me if you need a better explanation.
bimmerpilot@optonline.net

Take care,

George

[m lew]

My system is not a simple add-on, so what I have to say may not be of much help at all. I offer it FWIW, in case all you're trying to do is add on a sub amp. I would hook the sub amp to the signal coming out of your head unit, not the signal coming out of the stock amp. I'm not familiar with your head unit, but many head units have 2 or 3 sets of pre-outs. On such units, you may find 2 sets of pre-outs for the 4 main channels and 1 set dedicated for the sub frequencies. If you have such a set of pre-outs on your head unit, this is what you hook up (w/ RCAs) to your sub amp. Then you use some really big 2 or 4 gauge wire to hook up your screw terminals (at the amp) to your sub.

If you have only one set of pre-outs, then I would add a cross-over between the head unit and the main and sub amps, so you get the correct frequencies going to each amp. Personally I'm a big fan of Audio Control's products; check out their website.

Hope this helps.

[clumpymold]

Originally Posted by 325ipilot

You either have the c33 or the CD43 right? Considering you have HK.

What you need to do is look at the wiring diagram for the stereo, and find the rear channels (or front channels) before they enter the amp, at the amp harness plug. You can tap into those, dont do it after the amp, as it has internal crossovers. The outputs of the C33 and CD43 are basically preamp level, so you can solder RCA's to your new wires, and plug them directly into your sub amp.

Make sure the amp you select has a low pass crossover, so you can control the sub. Also the remote turn on is also available in the amplifier harness.

e-mail me if you need a better explanation.
bimmerpilot@optonline.net

Take care,

George

Hey George,

Thanks for that. Okay, so you're saying I can just tap into the wires? I guess that would make sense. And then I would just select the lower frequencies from the rear channels, correct (using the built in crossover in my amp)? What about the remote wire? I'm not sure which one that is. This is the Bentley and I assume the wiring scheme is the same. Which one is the remote wire? I'm guessing #5?

[clumpymold]

Originally Posted by m lew

My system is not a simple add-on, so what I have to say may not be of much help at all. I offer it FWIW, in case all you're trying to do is add on a sub amp. I would hook the sub amp to the signal coming out of your head unit, not the signal coming out of the stock amp. I'm not familiar with your head unit, but many head units have 2 or 3 sets of pre-outs. On such units, you may find 2 sets of pre-outs for the 4 main channels and 1 set dedicated for the sub frequencies. If you have such a set of pre-outs on your head unit, this is what you hook up (w/ RCAs) to your sub amp. Then you use some really big 2 or 4 gauge wire to hook up your screw terminals (at the amp) to your sub.

If you have only one set of pre-outs, then I would add a cross-over between the head unit and the main and sub amps, so you get the correct frequencies going to each amp. Personally I'm a big fan of Audio Control's products; check out their website.

Hope this helps.

Hey,

Thanks for the help. I know how to wire up the system from scratch but I'm trying to avoid taking my car apart as well as my headunit. I just want this to be an easy install. I already know where the amp is and the battery. Just power the amp up (from the battery), and tap the remote and speaker outputs in and I'm good to go.

[325ipilot]

Remote turn on would be pin #16.
# 5 is the switched 12v power supply for the radio, turns the radio on and off with the key.Pin #5 is hot whenever the ignition is on, #16 is hot only when the radio is on, hence that is when you want your amp to turn on.

Find that wire, as well as the signal wires in one of the 24 pin connectors at the amp. Actually it should be in the connector that has 12 or so wires, with the bigger gauge wires going to it. The other one has smaller pins, and a lot more wires. I think I have a wiring diagram at the amp somewhere if you need it. That way you will be able to run all your wires in the trunk. The remote turn on wire is a thinner gauge white wire in the amp harness.

The grounds are joined together at the amp input. If you peel back the electrical tape a bit you will see what i mean.


Hope this clears things up,

George

[AlphaMao211]

anyone know how much watts are in the stock amp? mine says SIEMENS on it etc. it is factory with 10 speakers....is there a way to increase the gain on this amp. It's kinda weak if you ask me. thanks.

[clumpymold]

Originally Posted by 325ipilot

Remote turn on would be pin #16.
# 5 is the switched 12v power supply for the radio, turns the radio on and off with the key.Pin #5 is hot whenever the ignition is on, #16 is hot only when the radio is on, hence that is when you want your amp to turn on.

Find that wire, as well as the signal wires in one of the 24 pin connectors at the amp. Actually it should be in the connector that has 12 or so wires, with the bigger gauge wires going to it. The other one has smaller pins, and a lot more wires. I think I have a wiring diagram at the amp somewhere if you need it. That way you will be able to run all your wires in the trunk. The remote turn on wire is a thinner gauge white wire in the amp harness.

The grounds are joined together at the amp input. If you peel back the electrical tape a bit you will see what i mean.


Hope this clears things up,

George

Ahh, yeah. That makes sense. Antenna wire. Duh. So the remote wire is #16. What do you mean by signal wires? Are you referring to the rear channel wires? #3, #12, and #14? And what does that "+" mean? I guess I can check now since I pretty much have all the wires I need.

I actually probably could have guessed the thin remote wire. It should be the thinnest wire there. Sometimes I just get paranoid. Usually I'm able to figure all this out on my own. Thanks for the help though.

What do you mean by all the grounds are together? Couldn't I just use the ground directly from the battery (as well as the power)?

And yes, it DOES clear it up. Thanks a LOT! You were a GREAT help!

Curtis

[clumpymold]

Originally Posted by AlphaMao211

anyone know how much watts are in the stock amp? mine says SIEMENS on it etc. it is factory with 10 speakers....is there a way to increase the gain on this amp. It's kinda weak if you ask me. thanks.

Siemens? Not sure if mine says that or not. Need to look at it. I believe the Bentley says it's 200 total watts for the stock and 320 for the HK.

[speedster]

you keep saying you can tap it. can your new amp handle high level inputs? if not you need a line out converter which converts your high level wires into rca jacks which you then plug into your amp. im a professional car audio installer. its what i do for a living

[325ipilot]

Because it says future bimmer owner in your profile I'll just explain this and not criticize. It's a pretty unique setup, and not one many installers come into contact with, becuase the first upgrade anyone does is replace the head unit.

BMW head units use approx a 4v preamp level output, they do NOT have speaker level outputs from the head unit, because they are designed from the factory to utilize an outboard amp - albeit a crappy one but still, so they can be wired into the RCA inputs of an aftermarket amp no problem.

As far as the stock amp, it can be replaced, but then you need either 10 channels of amplification and one hell of an active crossover, OR, Some passive crossovers if you want to maintain the stock speakers.

The weakest link in the stock bmw E36 System is the headunit, cause of its crappy output levels. Second is the stock amp. The speakers are actually probably the most decent part of the system, if powered properly.

CURTIS: The grounds are floating in the E36 System, Ie. that is why there are 3 wires for the rear signal. Right +, Left + , and common negative. All you need is the right + and left + wires. Wire those to the center conductors of your RCA cable, Ground the shields on your RCA cables to the common - wire and you will be fine.

Stock stereo amp is 200w or 20w x 10 ch at some obscene level of distortion. Realistically is about 10x10 RMS. You could take an oscilosope, figure out where the amp reaches its useable limit, and measure the voltage peak to peak. Then multiply by .707 (square root of 2 / 2) to get a rough estimate of RMS output. The HK amp does a little better, figure 15w x 10.


George

[clumpymold]

Originally Posted by speedster

you keep saying you can tap it. can your new amp handle high level inputs? if not you need a line out converter which converts your high level wires into rca jacks which you then plug into your amp. im a professional car audio installer. its what i do for a living

I think it should be able to. It's a four channel amp and I can choose two for high and two for low.

I used a LOC for my old E30 since my aftermarket headunit only had one preamp output for the sub. I used it for my component speakers. Sounded a lot better since I was originally using that ONE preamp for ALL my speakers.

Not sure what the professional car audio installer means though. I've installed systems in the last three of my cars and I actually don't even trust "professional" audio installers. Not so much on the electronics but because I'm super anal about my car. Besides, it's not that difficult to do the wiring. I just need to figure out which is which.

Originally Posted by 325ipilot

Because it says future bimmer owner in your profile I'll just explain this and not criticize. It's a pretty unique setup, and not one many installers come into contact with, becuase the first upgrade anyone does is replace the head unit.

BMW head units use approx a 4v preamp level output, they do NOT have speaker level outputs from the head unit, because they are designed from the factory to utilize an outboard amp - albeit a crappy one but still, so they can be wired into the RCA inputs of an aftermarket amp no problem.

As far as the stock amp, it can be replaced, but then you need either 10 channels of amplification and one hell of an active crossover, OR, Some passive crossovers if you want to maintain the stock speakers.

The weakest link in the stock bmw E36 System is the headunit, cause of its crappy output levels. Second is the stock amp. The speakers are actually probably the most decent part of the system, if powered properly.

CURTIS: The grounds are floating in the E36 System, Ie. that is why there are 3 wires for the rear signal. Right +, Left + , and common negative. All you need is the right + and left + wires. Wire those to the center conductors of your RCA cable, Ground the shields on your RCA cables to the common - wire and you will be fine.

Stock stereo amp is 200w or 20w x 10 ch at some obscene level of distortion. Realistically is about 10x10 RMS. You could take an oscilosope, figure out where the amp reaches its useable limit, and measure the voltage peak to peak. Then multiply by .707 (square root of 2 / 2) to get a rough estimate of RMS output. The HK amp does a little better, figure 15w x 10.


George

Hey George,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Yeah, I figured I'd need a new headunit but I seriously HARDLY listen to my stereo (I tend to just listen to my engine now) so I don't want to invest in it until later. I just had this subwoofer and amp laying around so I figured I'd just pop it in.

I'm keeping my stock amp for now and if I ever change my component speakers, I'll do the entire setup from scratch (headunit, amp, speakers, crossovers, wiring, etc.).

Okay, I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by three signals. I only see ONE "+" wire in my diagram. To make matters worse, the plug/harness I see is totally different from that diagram.

These are the pictures I just took. I just realized that the picture of the plug are the POST-amp wires. Could I just tap into those instead of the preamp wires?





I was going to tap into these wires since I noticed that they're the same as the ones on that amp harness:



But I just realized that, I believe, these are POST amp. But why is there that white wire which I think is the remote wire (the thinnest one)? I thought that should be coming from the headunit? Or maybe it's just combined with the post-amp wires? Or maybe those ARE pre-amp wires?

The reason why I think they're post-amp is because the other plug (the one in the back of the first picture) doesn't have any wires that are similar to the speaker wires (well, I don't see any blue/lavendar wire which I see on the rear passenger side).

Any ideas, guys?

Can I just tap into the wires in the last picture and select the proper frequencies from there? Or do those speakers not receive a low enough signal?

Thanks, you all!

Curtis

[clumpymold]

Okay, I just did what I had planned and it seems to work pretty well, if not perfect.

I tapped into those wires in the picture (near the rear deck speakers). See picture here (sorry for the fuzzy picture):



It's WAY more bass than I expected. My trunk rattles like a biatch! Maybe it's the CF or something?

Anyway, I actually had my cheapas$ amp split on two channels (BOTH 1 & 2 channels bridged) and it was WAY too powerful. I then just used ONE channel. Not sure how to work that though since the one channel I used only meant that I was using the signal from the passenger side.

Would I have to splice BOTH signals into ONE RCA connector then if I only wanted ONE channel? My RCA plugs into one input for 1 and 2. But I'm only using ONE input (1). And for some reason, it will ONLY work when I keep just that one in anyway. If I plug the second RCA jack in, start the car, it won't work. I have to go to the amp and replug the RCA jack in. THEN it'll work. I've even tried plugging the second RCA jack in another line input like 3 and it still does the same thing. Not sure why.

Any input?

Thanks all!

[CarbonBlkE36]

hey jus run the high to low level converters right from your rear speakers and get a 5 foot RCA cable , then get a made in USA amp foro the subs, make sure its a 1 or 2 channel. w/ the low pass crossover frequency adjustment is nice. depending on what u wanna spend i personally liek the JL 500/1 which would rock that 10W3 REAL GOOD

[clumpymold]

Originally Posted by CarbonBlkE36

hey jus run the high to low level converters right from your rear speakers and get a 5 foot RCA cable , then get a made in USA amp foro the subs, make sure its a 1 or 2 channel. w/ the low pass crossover frequency adjustment is nice. depending on what u wanna spend i personally liek the JL 500/1 which would rock that 10W3 REAL GOOD

Hey, thanks for your help. But why would I want to use a high to low level converter? Couldn't I just tap into the rear speakers with wires and then filter the correct frequencies using the amp? That's what I did (see post above). It worked out fine and sounds great.

Because the bass is already WAY more than I need, I am actually not planning on upgrading my subwoofer and amp now. I'm VERY content with it. I'm now looking for a nice headunit. I would ideally like a DVD headunit with screen but if I can find a good one that plays mp3s/cd-rs, that should be enough.

[CarbonBlkE36]

usually the better end of amps don't have high level inputs

[AtlzDesiKhiladi]

this helped me a lot

[clumpymold]

Originally Posted by AtlzDesiKhiladi

this helped me a lot