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Thread: Does anyone think the $$$ per HP will go down?

  1. #1
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    Does anyone think the $$$ per HP will go down?

    It seems to me that the extra HP goes up equally in relation to the cost. Rough examples of what certain HP levels will cost you:

    351-400WHP = $10K
    401-450WHP = $15k
    451-500WHP = $20k
    501-550WHP = $25k
    551-600+WHP = $30+k

    That's roughly $100/HP. Does anyone see this average dropping as more kits come out? Will good economics take hold and lower prices with increased competition?

    I sure hope so!

    cozog
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  2. #2
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    It doesn't cost that much if you do things right from the start. Its the people who go thru multiple turbo setups that end up paying that much. If you set your goal from the start and stick to it, you can save yourself a lot of time and money.
    1997 M3
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADVANT123
    It doesn't cost that much if you do things right from the start. Its the people who go thru multiple turbo setups that end up paying that much.
    I agree if you have the time, resources and skillz to implement such a project. But I'm talking about purchasing a "kit" and having it installed, not doing all the searching, purchasing and installing yourself. Some of us may not be skilled enough to do that.

    With that in mind, I think my numbers are close enough for goevernment work.

    cozog
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  4. #4
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    Our m20 and m30 kits are ~$36 per rwhp.
    Todd

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCD 535i
    Our m20 and m30 kits are ~$36 per rwhp.
    Todd
    Actually, I was refering to S52 engines. Sorry, I shoulda specified...

    cozog
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by COZOG
    It seems to me that the extra HP goes up equally in relation to the cost. Rough examples of what certain HP levels will cost you:

    351-400WHP = $10K
    401-450WHP = $15k
    451-500WHP = $20k
    501-550WHP = $25k
    551-600+WHP = $30+k

    That's roughly $100/HP. Does anyone see this average dropping as more kits come out? Will good economics take hold and lower prices with increased competition?

    I sure hope so!

    cozog
    I agree that those #'s are pretty close...If you are not buying the parts and installing them your self.

    I really doubt they will decrease much...because labor will not decrease...Hard ware might decrease a little...and custom tuning might go down a bit...but probably not significantly enough to change your rough figures.

    Like Advent said...start with a goal that has a reasonable ceiling...And prepare for that..you will save money in the long run.
    1995 M3 Custom Turbo, Turbonetics T66 BB,72lb injectors, Sias Tuning PnP Tec 3, IBM T30,PLX M250 wideband O2 sensor,Blitz SBC-iD Built low CR 8.5:1 motor CP Pistons,ARP head & main studs,Metric Mechanic HP Valve springs,walbro 255hp,BMP FPR,Modified fuel rail # 6 SS feed line,3in ss custom magnaflow exhaust,Lower level turbo intake,AA six puck disc, Spec Stage IV PP ,AA differential bracket,AA strut tower brace,UUC UD Pullies,UUC short shifter,UUC tranny mounts,UUC clutch stop,Fluidyne HP radiator.M3 LTW wheels Est..1001 rwhp!

    Http://members.cardomain.com/bassmasterM3
    (DIY custom turbo)

  7. #7
    ///3oris's Avatar
    ///3oris is offline "Diogenes the Cynic"
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    Quote Originally Posted by COZOG
    It seems to me that the extra HP goes up equally in relation to the cost. Rough examples of what certain HP levels will cost you:

    351-400WHP = $10K
    401-450WHP = $15k
    451-500WHP = $20k
    501-550WHP = $25k
    551-600+WHP = $30+k

    That's roughly $100/HP. Does anyone see this average dropping as more kits come out? Will good economics take hold and lower prices with increased competition?

    I sure hope so!

    cozog
    Assuming 200rwhp base:
    351-400WHP = $10K ($50-66/rwhp)
    401-450WHP = $15k ($60-75/rwhp)
    451-500WHP = $20k ($66-80/rwhp)
    501-550WHP = $25k ($71-83/rwhp)
    551-600+WHP = $30+k ($75-86/rwhp)

    So I don't see how you get $100/hp. Also, that price depends a lot on what you're talking about. FI alone, or all the other hardware needed beefed up to handle the power? Also, does this price include the labor or not? I do my own labor so to me these prices are a bit on the high side.

    FI is definitely an expensive game and a lot of the expense deal with choice. For example: to some it is unacceptable to run over ~400+rwhp without properly building an engine, while others will just say get a headgasket. That alone is a difference of $5k+ depending on who builds your engine.

    I would say using a headgasket only you can get to 450-500rwhp without an engine build (a bit cheaper than you have listed--for street use, ofcourse). Going past 500, on the other hand... well, ask George how much it would cost... it ain't cheap for a reason. It also depends on the purpose of your car... if you're a street racer or a drag racer then chances are you don't put the same abuse on a car that a road-course would thus the amount spent would differ since you have to build the car much more to handle the added power; everything from suspension, driveline, engine, water/oil cooling, etc.

    Anyway, that's my opinion.

    Boris
    '96 Cosmos Black M3 422rwhp/407rwtq SAE @ 13psi / 444rwhp/444rwtq SAE @ 14.5psi
    Engine/Drivetrain: Technique Tuning Stage 2 Turbo TT Turbo Exhaust, M50 Manifold, TMS Oil Baffles, SSR Comps, SPEC Stage II Clutch, UUC SSK, Titanium Cavallino Ti-130R Shift Knob, UUC TME, EMC Diff Bolt, RCCA's. Suspension: GC Coil-overs, GC RSMs, GC RTABs, GC Trans Mount; H&R SB. Instrumentation: VDO Boost, VDO Oil Press, VDO Oil Temp, VDO Water Temp, BMW Traffic Pro Navigation, Valentine One TODO: W/A Injection


  8. #8
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    I think those figures included labor? I would say prep the car for a ceiling of 450 rwhp even if you're only wanting 300 rwhp at the time.

    .140 HG, studs,
    Larger intercooler & piping
    50lb injectors
    LG Fuel pump
    3in exhaust.
    38-40 mm WG

    These things would be good for 300-450 rwhp.
    1995 M3 Custom Turbo, Turbonetics T66 BB,72lb injectors, Sias Tuning PnP Tec 3, IBM T30,PLX M250 wideband O2 sensor,Blitz SBC-iD Built low CR 8.5:1 motor CP Pistons,ARP head & main studs,Metric Mechanic HP Valve springs,walbro 255hp,BMP FPR,Modified fuel rail # 6 SS feed line,3in ss custom magnaflow exhaust,Lower level turbo intake,AA six puck disc, Spec Stage IV PP ,AA differential bracket,AA strut tower brace,UUC UD Pullies,UUC short shifter,UUC tranny mounts,UUC clutch stop,Fluidyne HP radiator.M3 LTW wheels Est..1001 rwhp!

    Http://members.cardomain.com/bassmasterM3
    (DIY custom turbo)

  9. #9
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    351-400WHP = $10K
    O.M.G! Is this a seriouse number for the M50?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ///3oris
    Assuming 200rwhp base:
    351-400WHP = $10K ($50-66/rwhp)
    401-450WHP = $15k ($60-75/rwhp)
    451-500WHP = $20k ($66-80/rwhp)
    501-550WHP = $25k ($71-83/rwhp)
    551-600+WHP = $30+k ($75-86/rwhp)

    So I don't see how you get $100/hp.
    It's the cost per HP of increasing over NA engines. Roughly $5k for every 50HP gained. Notice I said ROUGHLY, as in BALLPARK or ESTIMATED. I'm saying any of these are rock solid, just my observations of, and discussions with, tuners.

    And yes, it included parts, labor and everything from soup to nuts.

    But I think someone else already answered this one. Labor doesn't decrease. Then only possibility is in the part, and that probably won't be very much.

    Although, I would think that once the R&D is completed for these kits, the kti prices should fall. Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.

    cozog
    Z3 Registration Database
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  11. #11
    Def's Avatar
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    You better have really deep pockets if you're going to pay to have someone turn your NA car into a turbo one and expect reliable high HP and daily driver good manners.

  12. #12
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    The cost per hp should go up so that less youngsters can have it.
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by highboostingm3
    The cost per hp should go up so that less youngsters can have it.

  14. #14
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    You can make the cost go down, by avoiding BMW. My old mucle car was like $150 per 100 hp. I know its not the same. How's it go, if you want to play, you have to pay.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by highboostingm3
    The cost per hp should go up so that less youngsters can have it.
    I hope so.


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