It seems to me that the extra HP goes up equally in relation to the cost. Rough examples of what certain HP levels will cost you:
351-400WHP = $10K
401-450WHP = $15k
451-500WHP = $20k
501-550WHP = $25k
551-600+WHP = $30+k
That's roughly $100/HP. Does anyone see this average dropping as more kits come out? Will good economics take hold and lower prices with increased competition?
I sure hope so!
cozog
Z3 Registration Database
Mods Done: ESS/RMS/Custom Vortech V2 S/C Kit, Aquamist 1S Kit, Spal 16" Fan, 18" BBS RG-R w/red center caps, Engine Fan Delete, ///M logo Chrome Oil Cap, Imola Red Roundels, Clear Front Marker Lights, ///M Badge below Rear Oddments Box, ///M Valve Stem Caps
Mods Next: City Lights, Silver turn signal bulbs, Front CF Splitters, CF Sunroof, Sport Gills, Chrome Light Switch, Chrome Kidneys, Central Lock button, Paint Imola Red (Washer Nozzles, Rear Spoiler, Door Handles, Engine Cover)[/font]
It doesn't cost that much if you do things right from the start. Its the people who go thru multiple turbo setups that end up paying that much. If you set your goal from the start and stick to it, you can save yourself a lot of time and money.
1997 M3
1999 Z3 M Coupe - Turbocharged
I agree if you have the time, resources and skillz to implement such a project. But I'm talking about purchasing a "kit" and having it installed, not doing all the searching, purchasing and installing yourself. Some of us may not be skilled enough to do that.Originally Posted by ADVANT123
With that in mind, I think my numbers are close enough for goevernment work.
cozog
Z3 Registration Database
Mods Done: ESS/RMS/Custom Vortech V2 S/C Kit, Aquamist 1S Kit, Spal 16" Fan, 18" BBS RG-R w/red center caps, Engine Fan Delete, ///M logo Chrome Oil Cap, Imola Red Roundels, Clear Front Marker Lights, ///M Badge below Rear Oddments Box, ///M Valve Stem Caps
Mods Next: City Lights, Silver turn signal bulbs, Front CF Splitters, CF Sunroof, Sport Gills, Chrome Light Switch, Chrome Kidneys, Central Lock button, Paint Imola Red (Washer Nozzles, Rear Spoiler, Door Handles, Engine Cover)[/font]
Our m20 and m30 kits are ~$36 per rwhp.
Todd
Actually, I was refering to S52 engines. Sorry, I shoulda specified...Originally Posted by TCD 535i
cozog
Z3 Registration Database
Mods Done: ESS/RMS/Custom Vortech V2 S/C Kit, Aquamist 1S Kit, Spal 16" Fan, 18" BBS RG-R w/red center caps, Engine Fan Delete, ///M logo Chrome Oil Cap, Imola Red Roundels, Clear Front Marker Lights, ///M Badge below Rear Oddments Box, ///M Valve Stem Caps
Mods Next: City Lights, Silver turn signal bulbs, Front CF Splitters, CF Sunroof, Sport Gills, Chrome Light Switch, Chrome Kidneys, Central Lock button, Paint Imola Red (Washer Nozzles, Rear Spoiler, Door Handles, Engine Cover)[/font]
I agree that those #'s are pretty close...If you are not buying the parts and installing them your self.Originally Posted by COZOG
I really doubt they will decrease much...because labor will not decrease...Hard ware might decrease a little...and custom tuning might go down a bit...but probably not significantly enough to change your rough figures.
Like Advent said...start with a goal that has a reasonable ceiling...And prepare for that..you will save money in the long run.
1995 M3 Custom Turbo, Turbonetics T66 BB,72lb injectors, Sias Tuning PnP Tec 3, IBM T30,PLX M250 wideband O2 sensor,Blitz SBC-iD Built low CR 8.5:1 motor CP Pistons,ARP head & main studs,Metric Mechanic HP Valve springs,walbro 255hp,BMP FPR,Modified fuel rail # 6 SS feed line,3in ss custom magnaflow exhaust,Lower level turbo intake,AA six puck disc, Spec Stage IV PP ,AA differential bracket,AA strut tower brace,UUC UD Pullies,UUC short shifter,UUC tranny mounts,UUC clutch stop,Fluidyne HP radiator.M3 LTW wheels Est..1001 rwhp!
Http://members.cardomain.com/bassmasterM3
(DIY custom turbo)
Assuming 200rwhp base:Originally Posted by COZOG
351-400WHP = $10K ($50-66/rwhp)
401-450WHP = $15k ($60-75/rwhp)
451-500WHP = $20k ($66-80/rwhp)
501-550WHP = $25k ($71-83/rwhp)
551-600+WHP = $30+k ($75-86/rwhp)
So I don't see how you get $100/hp. Also, that price depends a lot on what you're talking about. FI alone, or all the other hardware needed beefed up to handle the power? Also, does this price include the labor or not? I do my own labor so to me these prices are a bit on the high side.
FI is definitely an expensive game and a lot of the expense deal with choice. For example: to some it is unacceptable to run over ~400+rwhp without properly building an engine, while others will just say get a headgasket. That alone is a difference of $5k+ depending on who builds your engine.
I would say using a headgasket only you can get to 450-500rwhp without an engine build (a bit cheaper than you have listed--for street use, ofcourse). Going past 500, on the other hand... well, ask George how much it would cost... it ain't cheap for a reason. It also depends on the purpose of your car... if you're a street racer or a drag racer then chances are you don't put the same abuse on a car that a road-course would thus the amount spent would differ since you have to build the car much more to handle the added power; everything from suspension, driveline, engine, water/oil cooling, etc.
Anyway, that's my opinion.
Boris
'96 Cosmos Black M3 422rwhp/407rwtq SAE @ 13psi / 444rwhp/444rwtq SAE @ 14.5psi
Engine/Drivetrain: Technique Tuning Stage 2 Turbo TT Turbo Exhaust, M50 Manifold, TMS Oil Baffles, SSR Comps, SPEC Stage II Clutch, UUC SSK, Titanium Cavallino Ti-130R Shift Knob, UUC TME, EMC Diff Bolt, RCCA's. Suspension: GC Coil-overs, GC RSMs, GC RTABs, GC Trans Mount; H&R SB. Instrumentation: VDO Boost, VDO Oil Press, VDO Oil Temp, VDO Water Temp, BMW Traffic Pro Navigation, Valentine One TODO: W/A Injection
I think those figures included labor? I would say prep the car for a ceiling of 450 rwhp even if you're only wanting 300 rwhp at the time.
.140 HG, studs,
Larger intercooler & piping
50lb injectors
LG Fuel pump
3in exhaust.
38-40 mm WG
These things would be good for 300-450 rwhp.
1995 M3 Custom Turbo, Turbonetics T66 BB,72lb injectors, Sias Tuning PnP Tec 3, IBM T30,PLX M250 wideband O2 sensor,Blitz SBC-iD Built low CR 8.5:1 motor CP Pistons,ARP head & main studs,Metric Mechanic HP Valve springs,walbro 255hp,BMP FPR,Modified fuel rail # 6 SS feed line,3in ss custom magnaflow exhaust,Lower level turbo intake,AA six puck disc, Spec Stage IV PP ,AA differential bracket,AA strut tower brace,UUC UD Pullies,UUC short shifter,UUC tranny mounts,UUC clutch stop,Fluidyne HP radiator.M3 LTW wheels Est..1001 rwhp!
Http://members.cardomain.com/bassmasterM3
(DIY custom turbo)
O.M.G! Is this a seriouse number for the M50?351-400WHP = $10K
It's the cost per HP of increasing over NA engines. Roughly $5k for every 50HP gained. Notice I said ROUGHLY, as in BALLPARK or ESTIMATED. I'm saying any of these are rock solid, just my observations of, and discussions with, tuners.Originally Posted by ///3oris
And yes, it included parts, labor and everything from soup to nuts.
But I think someone else already answered this one. Labor doesn't decrease. Then only possibility is in the part, and that probably won't be very much.
Although, I would think that once the R&D is completed for these kits, the kti prices should fall. Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.
cozog
Z3 Registration Database
Mods Done: ESS/RMS/Custom Vortech V2 S/C Kit, Aquamist 1S Kit, Spal 16" Fan, 18" BBS RG-R w/red center caps, Engine Fan Delete, ///M logo Chrome Oil Cap, Imola Red Roundels, Clear Front Marker Lights, ///M Badge below Rear Oddments Box, ///M Valve Stem Caps
Mods Next: City Lights, Silver turn signal bulbs, Front CF Splitters, CF Sunroof, Sport Gills, Chrome Light Switch, Chrome Kidneys, Central Lock button, Paint Imola Red (Washer Nozzles, Rear Spoiler, Door Handles, Engine Cover)[/font]
You better have really deep pockets if you're going to pay to have someone turn your NA car into a turbo one and expect reliable high HP and daily driver good manners.
Originally Posted by highboostingm3
You can make the cost go down, by avoiding BMW. My old mucle car was like $150 per 100 hp. I know its not the same. How's it go, if you want to play, you have to pay.
I hope so.Originally Posted by highboostingm3
BBS RC 18X8.5 et13:245/40/18:Koni SA/H&R Sport/M5 3mm Upper Spring Pads/M5T 25mm/20mm Swaybars/Racing King Subframe Inserts/Magnaflow High Flow Cats/Magnaflow Exhaust/3 Inch Tips/Euro Clears/32%Tint/40% on Windshield/6500K HID H1's Headlights and Fogs/Depo Smilies/Factory Shadowline Trim/Shadowline Grill/93 Octane EAT Chip/M5 License Plate Holder/UUC Short Shift Kit/3.15 LSD/ More to Come...
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