My car is a 99 M Coupe with about 25k miles. Subframe and diff mount have yet to crack, but reading cases makes me very disturbed. I have tried reading up as much as I could about ways to prevent these two things from breaking.
I have a few questions however. I have no experience with reinforcing anything and have no idea what would help my case.
1. Would a Butt-strut attached to the subframe help to prevent the subframe from tearing?
2. Would subframe bushings (Ireland Engineering Subframe Bushings maybe) help to prevent the subframe from tearing?
3. What are ways to reinforce the differential mount? Installing a "two-earred" differential cover? Replacing the differential completely with something more solid? Like what?
God, this is the only thing keeping me from ever really pushing my car. It scares me.
contact mr. m
you've prolly seen this subframe tech they had in nj.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=242648
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I have explored this option and may take Don's approach. However, I want to know how well this proves to be a preventative measure.
I got a price quote and I don't want to pay this kind of money unless I am guaranteed that it will help.
for those who are unsure...keep an eye on your diff mount/subframe...if there is no damage...wait...if you see that hairline crack start to develop..then think about doing something...otherwise...let me be the guinea pig...Originally Posted by 6i9
my car will be supercharged in the near future with the Eurosport TS kit...so i think i will definitely be testing how well this reinforcement holds up
Another question...
What are the differences between subframe mounts and subframe bushings?
This is a subframe mountOriginally Posted by 6i9
This is a subframe bushing
And how are they related? Or are they? Sorry for the n00b questions.
1. NoOriginally Posted by 6i9
2. No, not by themselves, but they are a step in the right direction (limit travel)
3. There's a few ideas floating around at present. Hmmm, what a concept
Well, this is what I built for the Healey...
The mount is for the bushing.Originally Posted by 6i9
The mount (stud) goes through the bushing (hole). That's what attaches the rear suspension and differential to the car (one each side & the infamous differential brkt-that fails).
Incidently, those green things are the Ireland Urethane subframe bushings.
Look under your car.
I get it now. Thanks Randy.
Are the rear subframe bushings the same on M coupe/roadster as the Z3? or more specifically are these the mounts to order from ireland engineering?
https://secure9.nexternal.com/shared...D=545&All=True
Yes and yes.Originally Posted by kem
Here's the picture from the ETK that might help folks visualize.
<img src="http://www.rfdm.com/SubframeBushings/33_0998.gif">
Part #1 is the rear subframe. Part #2 is the mounting stud Randy pictured, it threads into the chassis (one per side). Part #3 is the stock rear subframe bushing (which many of us have replaced with the Ireland Engineering bushings). Part #7 is the driver side trailing arm. Randy's Ireland bushing picture shows part of the subframe and the passenger side trailing arm.
If you think of the subframe as a 'T', the differential hangs on the base of the 'T' and the trailing arms hang of the arms of the 'T'. The subframe is mounted to the chassis at the ends of the arms of the 'T'.
If you think about this picture and look under your car, you'll realize there's really only three mounting points keeping the whole rear end pointing striaght ahead: the two where the subframe attaches to the chassis via the rear subframe bushings, and the differential cover mount. The stock subframe bushings permit a lot of movement (while you're under your car with the suspension unloaded, you can wiggle it with your hands). This permits a lot of stress on the differential cover mounting bracket (and the crossmember it's attached to, and hence the trunk floor...). Going to the Ireland Engineering bushings reduces the movement of the subframe at the subframe mounts, and hence the stress on the differential cover mounting bracket. It also reduces some of the handling anomalies like rear steer and the infamous wiggle.
Incidentally, parts 8, 9 and 10 are the trailing arm bushings you'd replace with the KMACs to gain the ability to change rear end alignment. There's a pair of these per trailing arm.
All three mounting points have rubber bushings to permit some movement and reduce vibration in the chassis from the drivetrain. However, NVH is only slightly increased by going to the Ireland green bushings. Even if our rear ends weren't falling apart, I'd recommend these. They made a significant desirable difference in my car on the handling front.
Last edited by dwm; 03-08-2005 at 01:19 PM.
I just ordered the IE bushings does anyone have the tool required to remove them? I'm will to rent it and pay shipping both ways....
2002 Alpine White w/ Black 368 (<OO \(||][||)/ OO>)
Power: Custom Exhaust w/ High Flow cats, CSL headers, built, low-compression Supercharged and aftercooled S-54, ViPEC standalone ECU, Vortech V2 Si trim
Driveline: Euro 6 speed, 3.64 diff w/ 40% Lockup, Rogue Octane SSK, UUC Red TME kit, UUC Stage 3 LTW Flywheel/M5 Clutch, SS Shift Knob
Suspension & Brakes: TC Kline True Match Coilovers 500f/500r w/ adjustable camber plates, Racing Dynamics sways, Custom front sway endlinks, ATE fluid, UUC/Willwood BBK 6 piston f - 4 piston r , Slotted E46M3 Rotors, Stainless Lines, Strong Strut, IE Subframe & adjustable rear trailing arm bushings
ICE & Misc: Projector Z's w/DDE & 5k HID, 19'' Gold HRE C20's, Custom Aux pwr outlet, footwell lighting, ACS Splitters, Areo Sideskirts, Custom gauge pods, Z8 Start, Pioneer AVIC Z3, Clarus Components, 10" RE Sub in a Mister-X Enclosure, Alpine PDX 4X150 + 1X600 Amps
Coming soon: and a visit to Randy Forbes
Did Jeff (or Jeremy) give you an idea when they would ship? I wound up with three (3) sets for my two (2) cars. I'm waiting on a UPS call tag to send one (1) set back.Originally Posted by clintjg
My black car (1999) that has the Ireland's feels great now that I have the "summer" wheels/tires back on it. Suspension is all stock pieces taken from the gray car (2001).
I'd also like to rent one of these instead of purchasing them.Originally Posted by clintjg
That was a very good visualization guide. Thanks.Originally Posted by dwm
I actually just got them yesterday.Originally Posted by Randy Forbes
2002 Alpine White w/ Black 368 (<OO \(||][||)/ OO>)
Power: Custom Exhaust w/ High Flow cats, CSL headers, built, low-compression Supercharged and aftercooled S-54, ViPEC standalone ECU, Vortech V2 Si trim
Driveline: Euro 6 speed, 3.64 diff w/ 40% Lockup, Rogue Octane SSK, UUC Red TME kit, UUC Stage 3 LTW Flywheel/M5 Clutch, SS Shift Knob
Suspension & Brakes: TC Kline True Match Coilovers 500f/500r w/ adjustable camber plates, Racing Dynamics sways, Custom front sway endlinks, ATE fluid, UUC/Willwood BBK 6 piston f - 4 piston r , Slotted E46M3 Rotors, Stainless Lines, Strong Strut, IE Subframe & adjustable rear trailing arm bushings
ICE & Misc: Projector Z's w/DDE & 5k HID, 19'' Gold HRE C20's, Custom Aux pwr outlet, footwell lighting, ACS Splitters, Areo Sideskirts, Custom gauge pods, Z8 Start, Pioneer AVIC Z3, Clarus Components, 10" RE Sub in a Mister-X Enclosure, Alpine PDX 4X150 + 1X600 Amps
Coming soon: and a visit to Randy Forbes
If someone has one we could do an install fest at my place and get them both done in the same weekend.Originally Posted by 6i9
2002 Alpine White w/ Black 368 (<OO \(||][||)/ OO>)
Power: Custom Exhaust w/ High Flow cats, CSL headers, built, low-compression Supercharged and aftercooled S-54, ViPEC standalone ECU, Vortech V2 Si trim
Driveline: Euro 6 speed, 3.64 diff w/ 40% Lockup, Rogue Octane SSK, UUC Red TME kit, UUC Stage 3 LTW Flywheel/M5 Clutch, SS Shift Knob
Suspension & Brakes: TC Kline True Match Coilovers 500f/500r w/ adjustable camber plates, Racing Dynamics sways, Custom front sway endlinks, ATE fluid, UUC/Willwood BBK 6 piston f - 4 piston r , Slotted E46M3 Rotors, Stainless Lines, Strong Strut, IE Subframe & adjustable rear trailing arm bushings
ICE & Misc: Projector Z's w/DDE & 5k HID, 19'' Gold HRE C20's, Custom Aux pwr outlet, footwell lighting, ACS Splitters, Areo Sideskirts, Custom gauge pods, Z8 Start, Pioneer AVIC Z3, Clarus Components, 10" RE Sub in a Mister-X Enclosure, Alpine PDX 4X150 + 1X600 Amps
Coming soon: and a visit to Randy Forbes
That sounds good. I just gotta order some bushings.Originally Posted by clintjg
YOUR POST IS A KEEPER! Thanks!
Originally Posted by dwm
'00S52 RETIRED
'07 Silver Gray E86 MCoupe
Hey Clint where did you order these from & how much?Originally Posted by clintjg
Last edited by tripleM; 08-17-2004 at 12:11 PM.
'00S52 RETIRED
'07 Silver Gray E86 MCoupe
http://www.bmw2002.com
$90 shipped for the pair
You want in on the install fest? I got beer? If we can find someone to rent us the tool we can all cut our costs....
2002 Alpine White w/ Black 368 (<OO \(||][||)/ OO>)
Power: Custom Exhaust w/ High Flow cats, CSL headers, built, low-compression Supercharged and aftercooled S-54, ViPEC standalone ECU, Vortech V2 Si trim
Driveline: Euro 6 speed, 3.64 diff w/ 40% Lockup, Rogue Octane SSK, UUC Red TME kit, UUC Stage 3 LTW Flywheel/M5 Clutch, SS Shift Knob
Suspension & Brakes: TC Kline True Match Coilovers 500f/500r w/ adjustable camber plates, Racing Dynamics sways, Custom front sway endlinks, ATE fluid, UUC/Willwood BBK 6 piston f - 4 piston r , Slotted E46M3 Rotors, Stainless Lines, Strong Strut, IE Subframe & adjustable rear trailing arm bushings
ICE & Misc: Projector Z's w/DDE & 5k HID, 19'' Gold HRE C20's, Custom Aux pwr outlet, footwell lighting, ACS Splitters, Areo Sideskirts, Custom gauge pods, Z8 Start, Pioneer AVIC Z3, Clarus Components, 10" RE Sub in a Mister-X Enclosure, Alpine PDX 4X150 + 1X600 Amps
Coming soon: and a visit to Randy Forbes
I'm game. If we can get 6i9 & dbsquirrel, Kurt, Khoi ,to go into it then the cost is 6 ways. Or maybe Kurt's got it already?Originally Posted by clintjg
& with the September drive (** ding ding Drive warning ** )through the twisties in MD, I can't wait to get these in!
Lets see if we can start the ball rolling...
'00S52 RETIRED
'07 Silver Gray E86 MCoupe
I'd never seen it described so easily, that makes it see quite easy other that pressing bushings....
Modifimied Z3 2.8
Faster than you think
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