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Thread: Crank Scraper?

  1. #1
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    Crank Scraper?

    Does this really work or show any improvements at all?

    He's talking about tornadoes inside of my engine hmm

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW

  2. #2
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    "As the engine rotates, engine oil is not thrown off but instead sucked into a tornadic windage cloud"

    :

  3. #3
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    Ya lol, I'm not sure if I want things scraping the crankshaft and putting metal filings everywhere haha.

  4. #4
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    This might be the best mod in the world, but until the seller can make sense I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.


    BMW CCA Member #480924

  5. #5
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    it is true. not the way he explains but similar. when you corner, oil moves inside and crank picks some up and aerates it. air bubbles inside oil- not good. dry sump or baffling are even better working techniques.
    if you dont believe then take m50-m54 to curvy racetrack and abuse it in corners. after 5-10 minutes hydraulic tappets start to making noise because you get air bubbles in oil and air is compressable. not good.

    http://www.vacmotorsports.com/cgi-bi...pl?item_id=416

    http://www.vacmotorsports.com/db/images/vac-rop-si4.jpg

    http://www.drysump.com/pan18b1.htm

    http://www.drysump.com/pan18b2.htm

  6. #6
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    VERY common in racing wet sump engines. For exactly what he says. The oil being slung off teh crank for the bearings is carried around the crank. This reduces the amount of oil in the pan, and requires HP to keep this cloud moving.

    On big American V8s, I have seen gains of as much as 15 - 20 HP or more reported by engine builders.
    Terry Carraway

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  7. #7
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    And this is the manufacturer

    http://www.crank-scrapers.com/
    Terry
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  8. #8
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    WHAT? No M42, M50, or S14 scrapers? They're missing half the market.

  9. #9
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    Talk to any american car buff and they'll swear by them. I'd be surprised to see 15 hp, but theoretically I can imagine it having a lot of benefits.
    Aaron

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick S
    it is true. not the way he explains but similar. when you corner, oil moves inside and crank picks some up and aerates it. air bubbles inside oil- not good. dry sump or baffling are even better working techniques.
    if you dont believe then take m50-m54 to curvy racetrack and abuse it in corners. after 5-10 minutes hydraulic tappets start to making noise because you get air bubbles in oil and air is compressable. not good.

    A retired Chrysler engineer who studied windage losses directly in the 2.2 Shelby engine agrees with you. They got back 7 hp at 6000 rpm and 9 hp when using Mobil-1 (I spoke with him again today) with a crank scraper type windage tray.

    BMW uses a type of crank scraper in the M52 windage tray as a side note -- numerous manufacturers do. DaimlerChrysler, Nissan, Mazda, Ford being a few others.

    The difficulty with simply attributing the entire phenomenon to aeration through direct crank contact with the sump reservoir is that modern engines have sump levels that lie below the range of the rotating assembly. This does not account for the fact that windage clouds form on statically mounted engines without lateral accelerations, for example. Yes, the problem is much worse in a moving engine.

    Consider also that the Ford Zetec E engine (Focus) has baffling that segregates the bore centers via baffle walls that meet the main caps (this is done with a bulkhead type cast sump that also has an integral crank scraper). The segregation further inhibits the propogation of the tornadic cloud (a pressure differential that entrains loose oil in the crank case from the mains, rods, piston cooling jets and head as well as oil whipped up by the crank).

    The end result in either scenario can result in severe oil aeration though by different (albeit often parallel) causal chains.

    Kind regards,

    Kevin Johnson

    Ishihara-Johnson Crank Scrapers

  11. #11
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    Doesn't a razor blade usually work?



    C.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomsrock
    Doesn't a razor blade usually work?



    C.
    When I first heard the name I was worried too (scraping the crank?!). People have told me that I should call it something different but since they have been in use for decades that is not really my call.

    With the help of a German technical dictionary, the closest composite word in die Muettersprache I can string together is "Oelabscheideblech."

    Kevin

  13. #13
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    uberpanzer is offline 4 banger's RULE!!! BMW CCA Member
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    3cars-36v. Math FTW!
    Bless you.

    Anyway, since when do the M42 and S14 contribute THAT much to the market? M50 I can see, but there aren't many people out there (in the US) that have either of those motors. Both are snubbed by Bentley in the e30 manual, although in fairness the M42 was only used for on year in that chassis. But there are FAR more e36 325/328/323 cars than 318s.

    Oh and the general concept if very good. This is something that you do hear about when talking about small mods to get that little bit extra out of the motor. Not sure if I would pay THAT much for one, but I haven't been pricing them either, so.....
    Metal Bumpers Are For BEEETCHES!!!!! "King of Lean" - Retired

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberpanzer
    Bless you.

    Anyway, since when do the M42 and S14 contribute THAT much to the market? M50 I can see, but there aren't many people out there (in the US) that have either of those motors. Both are snubbed by Bentley in the e30 manual, although in fairness the M42 was only used for on year in that chassis. But there are FAR more e36 325/328/323 cars than 318s.

    Oh and the general concept if very good. This is something that you do hear about when talking about small mods to get that little bit extra out of the motor. Not sure if I would pay THAT much for one, but I haven't been pricing them either, so.....

    Anybody that lives near me (Florida) can get a free one simply by lending me a block for which I do not already have a pattern. Some SCCA racers recently lent me the blocks for the old Datsun 510 (L series fours) and Z cars (sixes).

    There is a pic on my home page of a pan with numerous scraper devices built in. A local tuning shop lent that one out -- if you guess what engine it is or car it goes in that's another way to get a free one.

    Kevin

  15. #15
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    lol, This is kinda cool kevin johnson posts here on bimmerforums!
    I won one of your scrapers in a give away from http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3044.

    Seriously, scrapers are a must.
    These things have been track and dyno proven over and over again.
    Just look at the metro dyno chart. lol
    http://www.crank-scrapers.com/dyno.html

  16. #16
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    "My engine revs dropped by nearly 200 rpm at highway speed. Flat road no headwind. Acceleration seemed much better." Alfie in NZ -- Suzuki G13B scraper in his 4WD. (Remember -- the G13B engine already had a full windage tray from the factory.)


    ^ from the website. Did he get a gearing change too?

    Mercruiser 350/Bravo III

  17. #17
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    assuming that that 4wd car has extremely short gearing ratios, such a noticeable change would occur, although it is slightly difficult to interpret what Alfie is saying exactly, I'm assuming he means that the engine doesn't have to try as hard to go the same speed now.......maybe?

    "If your fenders aren't rolled, you have bad wheel fitment."

  18. #18
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    It could have been an automatic.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoJo
    It could have been an automatic.
    Ah ha, good call. Didn't contemplate someone actually modding an auto I kid, I kid.

    Mercruiser 350/Bravo III

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    I know nobody cares but,...
    <---picture whore

  21. #21
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    Any disadvantages to a scraper?
    S50'ed 318is

  22. #22
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    weight only

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