Towing mpg, who has towed with both gas and diesel?

[RangerGress]

Have an '06 F150 w/ the 5.4l. Sold open trailer and bought 24' enclosed trailer. Used to get 14mpg at 60mph, now get 8mpg @60mph. Wow!

Diesel owners tell me that I should be able to get 13mpg towing with a turbo diesel at 60mph on flats. Can that be right????? An improvement from 8mpg to 13mpg just because the engine is more efficient? That's an improvement of better than 50%.

Are diesels really that good?

[osborni]

Diesels are happy at steady state loads and at higher torque levels than gas motors due mainly to higher energy density and the details of the motor design. Newer diesels with better injection technology have just improved on that. But with higher prices per gallon (more or less), they only make sense if you tow a lot.

I don't have data, but I suspect they are basically the same $/mile as gas motors for stop and go traffic. Probably do better at higher GVW loads. (we're talking consumer grade trucks, not municipal trucks or bigger stuff.) The problem is the relatively narrow torque band, so more shifting.

[jonmacs22]

Here are my data points:

Towing a 24ft Enclosed Pace with E36 inside, total weight, 7250 lbs:
Ford F250 7.3L Auto: ~10mpg
GMC Sierra 2500 '06 Crew 4x4 Duramax Auto: ~ 12mpg
GMC Yukon Denali 2008 6.2L Gas: 10mpg
Toyota Tundra Crew Max 2008 5.7L: 10mpg

Towing a 20ft Enclosed Trailex with E36 inside, total weight, 5150 lbs:
Toyota Tundra Crew Max 2008 5.7L: 12mpg
2011 VW Touareg TDI 8-Speed Auto: 15mpg

Towing a 20ft Open Featherlite with E36, total weight, 4950 lbs:
2011 VW Touareg TDI 8-Speed Auto: 20mpg

Hope this helps.

[jtower]

much of it depends on gearing, if your can't use top gear or are constantly downshifting your mileage (and transmission life) will suffer.

my psd excursion gets 17 mpg towing an open trailer at 60-65 mph and 15 mpg towing a 24' enclosed at that speed. if you keep it in top gear with the torque converter locked that's a huge help. some drivers do a better job of this than others, and some vehicles are better suited than others (gearing, engine torque curve, transmission shift programming, etc). i take great pride in towing (open trailer) from my house to mid ohio, over the mountains, with just two 4-3 downshifts over the entire route.

[sped here]

'04 LLY Duramax 2500 HD, I just got 14.3mpg pulling the box to/from O'Fest. 900miles round trip on less than 65 gallons with the cruise set at 1900RPM (so... 65-ish mph)

I typically see a little more when towing where it's flat but there are some long hills between NEPA and Mid-O on i80.

It also does 22 Hwy, 17-18 city when it's just weight in the bed (no trailer).

[Red Z3]

Our 2012 Tundra 5.7 towing the TPD 24' with E36 (8,150lbs) gets 11.2mpg as an average.

[BowieBorder]

i take great pride in towing (open trailer) from my house to mid ohio, over the mountains, with just two 4-3 downshifts over the entire route.

I"ll vouch for this...I've seen him get mad when torque converter unlocks...


My F-150 SuperCrew Ecoboost gets a reliable 13 mpg between Md and VIR. E36 (2900 lb), 16' open Bri-Mar trailer, two sets of tires/wheels in the bed, various spare parts boxes and tools in crew cab. Mixed traffic (DC Friday rush hour to 70 mph open hwy) and rolling hills south of Richmond. On 87 octane. I got 15 mpg once drafting an enclosed for the whole trip. I just got 21.1 on the same trip and same bed load but no trailer/car attached.

[UKRBMW]

Scott - this isn't an apples to apples comparison, but here is some data anyways.

My old F150 - open 18 foot with car and all gear was about 5200 (it was a heavy trailer) - I never got over 12 MPG.

Went to Dodge 3500 Dually - got 13.7 MPG - not much improvement.
Dodge + 38 foot enclosed, loaded at 9500-10000 pounds - 10.5-11 mpg

Point is - for me diesel didn't do that much better on a lighter load. However doubling the weight I still get almost the same mileage as the F150 got with 5K behind it. With your enclosed you will see a bump in MPG going to a diesel.

I have 4.10 gears for towing and like JTower use 6th gear pretty much 97% of the time. Keep it at 1900 RPM in cruise (about 69-70 MPH) and the truck just does its thing.

[will v]

2011 power stroke with 26 foot enclosed @ 10k pounds I get 13.0 mpg avg running right at 70mph

This is with full emissions equipment on the truck (def, etc)

Will

[RangerGress]

I talked to a knowledgeable Dodge diesel guy about modern designs and mpg. The idea was, using Ford as an example, they've gone from the 7.3 to the 6.0 and now to something new. Do the later engines get better mpg like later gas engines tend to. His take was that diesel emission controls have tightened up a lot in the last decade and that's what has been driving the design of new engines. That is to say that mpg was a secondary objective and emissions primary. Therefore I should most certainly not assume that mpg has improved in the last decade of diesel engines.

Agree or disagree? Later diesels get better mileage then earlier ones or did the most efficient diesels the world will ever seen go away 10yrs ago?

Here are my data points:

Towing a 24ft Enclosed Pace with E36 inside, total weight, 7250 lbs:
Ford F250 7.3L Auto: ~10mpg
GMC Sierra 2500 '06 Crew 4x4 Duramax Auto: ~ 12mpg
GMC Yukon Denali 2008 6.2L Gas: 10mpg
Toyota Tundra Crew Max 2008 5.7L: 10mpg

Towing a 20ft Enclosed Trailex with E36 inside, total weight, 5150 lbs:
Toyota Tundra Crew Max 2008 5.7L: 12mpg
2011 VW Touareg TDI 8-Speed Auto: 15mpg

Towing a 20ft Open Featherlite with E36, total weight, 4950 lbs:
2011 VW Touareg TDI 8-Speed Auto: 20mpg

Hope this helps.

This was at comparable speeds and terrain? So you're saying the Duramax gets 20% better gas mileage because it's so much more efficient?

A little OT. The best gas mileage I ever got towing was with my old 2003 BMW X5 4.4l. The worst gas mileage was with a POS '99 Dodge Ram. That told me that there was a helova difference in engine technology at work.

[Bimmerman535i]

No bone in this fight, but subscribing because I'm in the market.

I was reading an article that tested the '11/'12 gas and diesel chevy ford and dodge 150/250/350s, on highway both unloaded and with heavy trailers.

Link: http://special-reports.pickuptrucks....nomy-test.html

Results are interesting, but it seems ~13-14mpg towing 10k is pretty standard.

[raamaudio]

I have a brand new 2012 chevy 3500 4wd dually, diesel, no where near broken in at 700 miles on it so far but averaging 18+ in mixed driving.

I have seen many reports of over 20+ MPG empty at 70 MHP.

One guy reported towing a 16k 5th wheel 6k miles this summer, plains states 16 MPG, mountain states 12 MGP.

Another reported an average of 14.5 towing about the same load, 50% mountain states, 65-70 MHP.

These were also current gen Duramax trucks with the 3 layers of smog gear in place, stock tunes.

My 07.5 GMC(still the same body style though major changes under the hood, trans, chassis in 2011) did no better than 15 MPG empty. My 07 5.7 Tundra was less than 8MPG with just under 10k, 28 ft V nose Featherlite toyhauler, at 4-5k elevation but no big climbs.

Since I plan to tow tens of thousands of miles a year now it made sense to get the new truck. I looked at Motor and Toter homes stacker trailers, double towing, etc....and all other options, big race/living qtrs trailer towing all over will cost less than staying at home as selling or leasing out the house

Rick

Rick

[RangerGress]

No bone in this fight, but subscribing because I'm in the market.

I was reading an article that tested the '11/'12 gas and diesel chevy ford and dodge 150/250/350s, on highway both unloaded and with heavy trailers.

Link: http://special-reports.pickuptrucks....nomy-test.html

Results are interesting, but it seems ~13-14mpg towing 10k is pretty standard.

Nice link. Now if we can only find that kind of data from 10yrs ago.

[raamaudio]

Unless you are towing a great deal and heavy loads a gas truck is probably a better way to go all things considered.

[JPTM3]

2008 F350 PSD getting about 14 empty and about 10 mpg towing a 24 foot enclosed. Never weighed the trailer but I expected it to be between 7 to 8000 lbs.

[jonmacs22]

I talked to a knowledgeable Dodge diesel guy about modern designs and mpg. The idea was, using Ford as an example, they've gone from the 7.3 to the 6.0 and now to something new. Do the later engines get better mpg like later gas engines tend to. His take was that diesel emission controls have tightened up a lot in the last decade and that's what has been driving the design of new engines. That is to say that mpg was a secondary objective and emissions primary. Therefore I should most certainly not assume that mpg has improved in the last decade of diesel engines.

Agree or disagree? Later diesels get better mileage then earlier ones or did the most efficient diesels the world will ever seen go away 10yrs ago?




This was at comparable speeds and terrain? So you're saying the Duramax gets 20% better gas mileage because it's so much more efficient?

A little OT. The best gas mileage I ever got towing was with my old 2003 BMW X5 4.4l. The worst gas mileage was with a POS '99 Dodge Ram. That told me that there was a helova difference in engine technology at work.

All of my towing is the same, to and from VIR and Summit from DC area.

[Calaway16]

I get about 9 mpg with my 2010 Ford Expedition. My dad and I borrowed someone's Dodge ( I think) diesel pickup and averaged around 14 mpg. But I swear that thing had a 1 gallon tank. 24 ft enclosed V-nose trailer.

[rynburns]

Ford 7.3 will do about 18mpg. Ford 6.0 will do about the same, but is smog compliant (and a disaster waiting to happen). Ford 6.4 will do 11mpg (more terrible design, will kill itself). New Ford 6.7 i think is close to 18mpg again.. important to note, the 7.3 was an International design with an injection system co-developed by CAT..the 6.0 was Navistar (owned by International) but of Austrian design, same with the 6.4

[99MPower]

2001 F350 7.3 diesel ext cab, long bed 4x4. 15,000lb triple axle extended height Pace Daytona from Chicago to San Diego through Colorado, down from into PHX, and across the Tecate Divide on the 10?

9.8mpg averaged over 2400miles with a total load of 24,960lbs

[Another M3]

This might be apples to oranges since you all are talking mostly about American trucks, but since my trucks were also built in the USA, maybe I qualify. At least it's another gas vs diesel data point.

Towing the same E36 M3 in an enclosed Trailex at approximately 5200-5400 pounds:

2002 BMW X5 4.4i - 10.5 to 13.5 mpg depending on terrain and wind (about 31,000 miles total).
2011 BMW X5 3.5d - 15 to 17 mpg depending on terrain and wind (about 9000 miles so far).

The better fuel mileage and the extra torque of the diesel makes it the clear winner for me. The X5d tows so much stronger than the gas V8. When not towing, the diesel gets about 22mpg or so around town and up to 30 on the highway. Makes it a fairly decent daily driver that can fit in a normal parking space.

[cledbetter]

I have an '00 Excursion with the 7.3 PSD.
With my 20 ft with e36 (6500lb) ~12mpg
No car in trailer (3500) ~13.5mpg
No trailer average ~16mpg
This is all towing around 65mpg to keep the rpm under 2k. I also find that the mpg changes based on the quality of diesel fuel. Truck stops normally drop my mpg an addtitional 20% over Shell, Chevron, or ConocoPhillips diesel. Same thing is true in my Golf TDI.

[B raged]

I have been towing with my VW Touareg TDI for the last two years.

Details:

Open Aluma 18' Aluminum trailer - 1100lbs
E36 DSP Car - 2750lbs
Random parts in trunk of E36 - Let's say 200lbs

Towing weight - 4050lbs.

I typically get around 20mpg. Last year with a 20+ hour tow to Lincoln, NE from the Philadelphia area I got just over 20mpg (I think it was 20.8mpg)

This year I saw just around 22mpg for the same trip. I would say I was going at a pretty decent rate of speed as well (I think overall trip I averaged 64mph)

[jjvincent]

For ease of towing, diesels are the way to go. A friend of mine has a 5th wheel RV trailer and he has been towing it with a Dodge crew cab gasser. This year he bought a Dodge crew cab diesel. The gas truck got 9 mpg no matter how fast or slow he towed it. The diesel gets 13. If he takes it easy and drives around 55, it'll get 14. As for the ease of towing, the diesel is so much better easier to maintain the same speed going uphill.

As for my 2006 Crew Cab Dually PSD, towing a 48ft trailer packed with two cars, all spares and pit equipment (you don't want to know how much that weighs), it gets 9 mpg. The truck has over 250K on the clock and it's still doing fine.

[davesnavy]

It's all about the torque. The BW transporter is "only" about 400hp, but puts out around 1700 ft/lbs torque. With 10 speed tranny and 3.55 rear gets about 6.5 mpg hauling 70K lbs. at just over the posted speed limit.

Gas will work with your new enclosed trailer, but will work hard all the time. Any of the big 3 diesels will pull it with little effort all day. I'd definitely go diesel. In fact, after buying my 20' enclosed, traded by '07 F150 for an '06 F250 PSD and haven't looked back. And no, I haven't had a single issue with the 6-point-blow.

Tower brings up a good point. I've ridden with guys who tow with a diesel and they keep the pedal pegged to the floor. Just as in our BMW's, the power isn't at the red line, it's somewhere lower in the RPM range. The trick is to keep the engine happily in it's sweet spot, even if you temporarily lose a few mph hill climbing.

[RangerGress]

Gas will work with your new enclosed trailer, but will work hard all the time. Any of the big 3 diesels will pull it with little effort all day. I'd definitely go diesel. In fact, after buying my 20' enclosed, traded by '07 F150 for an '06 F250 PSD and haven't looked back. And no, I haven't had a single issue with the 6-point-blow.

Talk to me why you didn't/don't worry about the Ford 6 liter failing on you, nor it's resale value.

Also, I've heard that shops don't like working on the 6 liter. Comparing a 6 liter with reliability mods and a 7.3 liter, is it a foregone conclusion that maintenance on the 7.3 will be cheaper because as an earlier motor it's easier to work on and parts are cheaper?

The e46 motor has more plastic parts that don't last than the e36, which has more plastic parts that don't last then the e30. Are there parallels in the 7.3l vs. 6.0l world?