No crank symptom, if u r good at diagnostic pls help

[froggy47]

No WAG please. I will describe as much in detail as I am able.

Started as intermittant, now is every key twist.

All poweri up key position one, two is normal.

Final twist to start position is dead/nothing/zero. Like a full dead battery, but I know battery is good.

I replaced the EWS antenna, no change. The tumbler & ign sw look/feel normal, no roughness, no spinning tumbler symptom.

Peake code is 1a (FF table) control module something, which I believe is normal when battery power is disconnected for a while, I cleared it.

Pulled the DME, aside from usual dust looked normal. CA car, no wet/flooding signs.

1995 M3 built 7/95

I tapped on the starter, no change.

Alarm system arms/disarms normal.

One thing I find odd, is I think I should hear the elec fuel pump prime when I move key to pos 2 and I do not hear any fuel pump sound? Is this right or wrong?

Steering wheel lock/unlock works as normal.

Ignition tumbler turns the ign sw as I can see it turn (removed cover on ign.)

The Peake reader does not give me any other code (OBD1)

I'm guessing crank position sensor but that is my wag. Also I need to ck fuel pressure tomorrow, should be 45 ish.

Any takers? 145k miles very stock car.

Help me get this running & I will credit you in my video of the repair.



THX.

[CMG]

So qhen u turn key to ignition all power dies out too as well as no start? Did ya check battery connections?

[Driiven]

Im going to say EWS error of some sort, Peake is a joke get your hands on inpa or dis. Try checking relays in fuse box first then try aligning ews-dme first but without being there can't help too much

[froggy47]

So qhen u turn key to ignition all power dies out too as well as no start? Did ya check battery connections?

No, I did not say that, power stays fine & battery connections are clean & tight. It's NOT battery.

Im going to say EWS error of some sort, Peake is a joke get your hands on inpa or dis. Try checking relays in fuse box first then try aligning ews-dme first but without being there can't help too much

I did (after I posted) find the fuel pump relay & dme relay both were not fully seated in their places in the fuse box. I fully seated them, but no change.

I don't know how to test a relay to see if it's good, so may just buy 2 and plug them in.

Is there a procedure to align dme & ews? What is it?
Thanks guys.

[fun2drive]

First of all crank position sensor just will not allow the car to start but it will crank.
Use the search feature and jumper the connection on your fuel pump. You said you would measure the pressure but it really doesn't matter if it doesn't crank because it isn't your fuel pump.
DME provides a gnd pulse to the fuel and main relay. If that isn't happening you are not going to get anything to crank.
We are still very much in speculation mode here. It does sound like an ignition switch issue or EWS and without better diagnostic tools it would be hard to tell.
You replaced the EWS ant and no joy.
Problem is that being OBDI this car isn't very revealing unless you get this to someone with an INPA or Carsoft or BT to read what is happening.
As mentioned Peake works but you need more diagnostic help.
If you can hit the local forum subsection and ask if any member in your area has one of these tools it would help you solve this problem. it is very feasiable to have a perfectly functioning ignition switch but having an internal failure.
Just to be clear you have a no crank condition correct?
Assumptions here are that the battery and connections are good meaning 12.6 VDC or better
EWS is OK
That doesn't leave too much left but the main relay and the ignition switch unless the DME went south which from you posted is dry and dusty so not an issue...

[Tbaker474]

Do you have a multimeter (or can you borrow one?) Check to see if you're getting voltage at the starter solenoid when you turn the ignition on.

[Diamondback555]

Manual or auto?

[froggy47]

Do you have a multimeter (or can you borrow one?) Check to see if you're getting voltage at the starter solenoid when you turn the ignition on.

I can ck that. I hear zero sound from starter (or fuel pump).

Seems like dme is not getting the proper go ahead from ign/ews.

Manual or auto?

Manuel.

First of all crank position sensor just will not allow the car to start but it will crank.
Use the search feature and jumper the connection on your fuel pump. You said you would measure the pressure but it really doesn't matter if it doesn't crank because it isn't your fuel pump.
DME provides a gnd pulse to the fuel and main relay. If that isn't happening you are not going to get anything to crank.
We are still very much in speculation mode here. It does sound like an ignition switch issue or EWS and without better diagnostic tools it would be hard to tell.
You replaced the EWS ant and no joy.
Problem is that being OBDI this car isn't very revealing unless you get this to someone with an INPA or Carsoft or BT to read what is happening.
As mentioned Peake works but you need more diagnostic help.
If you can hit the local forum subsection and ask if any member in your area has one of these tools it would help you solve this problem. it is very feasiable to have a perfectly functioning ignition switch but having an internal failure.
Just to be clear you have a no crank condition correct?
Assumptions here are that the battery and connections are good meaning 12.6 VDC or better
EWS is OK
That doesn't leave too much left but the main relay and the ignition switch unless the DME went south which from you posted is dry and dusty so not an issue...

You are helping just by clearing my head of false paths. I bought a BMW dme relay (because I found the loose one), no change.

The ews antenna I put on because the last time it started I was lightly touching the wiring under the steering column (cover off) and thought for sure I brushed the ews antenna wires (two green) and that one must be loose. But new ews antenna does nothing. the tumbler & switch "seem ok" but of course I can't see inside either.

I will post up local forum & see if I can get a good diag tool. I would need to borrow as car is dead now.

Independent wants $140 to run diag, god knows what the dealer wants.

Thanks, keeps coming back to ign/ews seems to me.

Yes this is no crank. Bright headlights & all other elec function 100%

I did disc & reconn batt when I put the ews ant in. Got a 1a code (Peake) I believe normal from a batt disconnect.

[ScotcH]

Replace key? They do die occasionally.

[asianvenom]

Do you have a multimeter (or can you borrow one?) Check to see if you're getting voltage at the starter solenoid when you turn the ignition on.

Why don't you go right to the source and check with a volt-meter if there's voltage at the starter connection when you crank the car?

[sjpgoalie]

Do you have EWS I or II? If II, it sounds like your DME is killing power at the pump relay. Code 1a is control unit supply. A power imbalance. Could be possible that it kills the starter relay as well. If it was the crank sensor, it should still turn over. If you have EWS I, it is more than likely not from the EWS system as the door locks are the trigger for whether power is killed to the relay or not. On my phone, sorry for crappy grammar.

Edit: you have EWS II. I would look into this.

[Tbaker474]

Why don't you go right to the source and check with a volt-meter if there's voltage at the starter connection when you crank the car?

You need to check both really, I'm just suggesting that he start with the solenoid. Assuming the battery is good, and the cables going to the starter aren't corroded or disconnected, then the starter connection will always have voltage even when the car is off.... it's wired directly to the battery. The solenoid will only get voltage when you turn the key.

If he's having some type of EWS or starter circuit issue, the solenoid won't get voltage when he tries to crank the car. If the starter itself is bad, then it will get 12v and he knows it's likely the starter that's bad.

It's just going to help him narrow down possibilities so he doesn't throw money away replacing parts in an attempt to fix the problem.

[froggy47]

Replace key? They do die occasionally.

That was suggested & it's not a bad one, but I have two & both WERE working, so don't think both would die simultaneously.

Do you have EWS I or II? If II, it sounds like your DME is killing power at the pump relay. Code 1a is control unit supply. A power imbalance. Could be possible that it kills the starter relay as well. If it was the crank sensor, it should still turn over. If you have EWS I, it is more than likely not from the EWS system as the door locks are the trigger for whether power is killed to the relay or not. On my phone, sorry for crappy grammar.

Edit: you have EWS II. I would look into this.

I believe, yes, ewsII on a 7/95 car, but is there a way to verify?

How do I check if dme is getting signal from ews without the fancy diag. tool?

[Tbaker474]

Just noticed you posted that this started as an intermittent issue.

Did you check the simple things, like for example that your clutch switch is functioning properly? If you have worn out clutch pedal bushings it could not be fully depressing the clutch switch. I have experienced this before.

Start with the basics. I feel like you're starting at step 10 (assuming its some sort of major electronics issue) without doing steps 1 - 9 first.

[froggy47]

Just noticed you posted that this started as an intermittent issue.

Did you check the simple things, like for example that your clutch switch is functioning properly? If you have worn out clutch pedal bushings it could not be fully depressing the clutch switch. I have experienced this before.

Start with the basics. I feel like you're starting at step 10 (assuming its some sort of major electronics issue) without doing steps 1 - 9 first.

Thanks for your post.

The 95 (and probably some earlier) don't have a clutch safety switch. That came later.

It is worth noting that it went from intermittant to permanent. Usually intermittant stay that way for quite a while. I am going to get into the starter Monday, racing tomorrow with the other car.

[mmark.]

Do you have a clutch switch?

m

[froggy47]

Do you have a clutch switch?

m

Answered in post #15

[bigugly]

Go to the starter and see if it's getting the start signal. If not, go to the EWS and see if its receiving the start signal from the ignition switch.

[froggy47]

Go to the starter and see if it's getting the start signal. If not, go to the EWS and see if its receiving the start signal from the ignition switch.

Do you know what wire/terminal I check on the ews? What voltage to see? Thanks.

[bigugly]

The only two big monster ones going to it. One comes from ignition switch one goes to Starter.
In fact you can jump them to see if the starter turns over.

Iirc it is black with a green stripe.....

[froggy47]

The only two big monster ones going to it. One comes from ignition switch one goes to Starter.
In fact you can jump them to see if the starter turns over.

Iirc it is black with a green stripe.....

Thanks will try starter today,

what I need is the procedure to ck at the ews (behind glove box) for signal.

[bigugly]

You can't unless you have diag equipment

[froggy47]

You can't unless you have diag equipment

Can't check for a voltage on a pin/wire with a multi meter?

I have ckd 12.5 v at the batt, fuse box, starter.

I ckd the engine/chassis grd clean & tight.

The starter/solanoid have 3 or 4 wires?

I can see a big red 12v and a braided copper grnd.

The solanoid have 1 or two smaller wires (wrapped in black plastic)?

I see one clearly, but not sure if there is a second or if it's just the same one looped around?

If I short the 12v to the solanoid terminal that I can see, both are the lowest ones from under the car, and with ign in on position, will that turn the starter over? Car should start?

Bently only has one para on ews 1&2..... cars after 1/95 will be equipped.....

So no help there.

Any more thoughts?

Can I test the tumbler & ign sw on the car. Specifics please.

Go to the starter and see if it's getting the start signal. If not, go to the EWS and see if its receiving the start signal from the ignition switch.

If I put my meter on the solanoid term (and to grd) and put the meter where I can see, get in the car & turn key all the way to start, then I SHOULD see 12v at the solanoid if it's getting that far, yes?



I have verified this solenoid has 4 wires big 12v big grd & 2 small wires covered in black rubber/plastic

[SouthBeachM3]

Can't check for a voltage on a pin/wire with a multi meter?

I have ckd 12.5 v at the batt, fuse box, starter.

I ckd the engine/chassis grd clean & tight.

The starter/solanoid have 3 or 4 wires?

I can see a big red 12v and a braided copper grnd.

The solanoid have 1 or two smaller wires (wrapped in black plastic)?

I see one clearly, but not sure if there is a second or if it's just the same one looped around?

If I short the 12v to the solanoid terminal that I can see, both are the lowest ones from under the car, and with ign in on position, will that turn the starter over? Car should start?

Bently only has one para on ews 1&2..... cars after 1/95 will be equipped.....

So no help there.

Any more thoughts?

Can I test the tumbler & ign sw on the car. Specifics please.






If I put my meter on the solanoid term (and to grd) and put the meter where I can see, get in the car & turn key all the way to start, then I SHOULD see 12v at the solanoid if it's getting that far, yes?



I have verified this solenoid has 4 wires big 12v big grd & 2 small wires covered in black rubber/plastic

Froggy did you ever figure it out?

I have just about every symptom you had, except I havent had time to dive in and start checking things, although I will once I have all the steps since I dont want to waste anytime. I want to be as efficient as possible.

If you want, please pm me on how you got her running. Cheers!

[froggy47]

I did a video, click below & search bmw & ews in the YT search bos