CCV, Oil Pan Gasket, & Fuel Pump Failure Related?

[Jason5driver]

I am almost positive that my CCV is again done for, again....

I had a retired BMW master tech. (after 28 years) read the live codes on my car last weekend.
He said the catalytic number was 14, and should read 0, and some other number (I can't remember what...) reads 4, and should read somewhere around 14...
Hence, the reason for my hesitant acceleration when hitting the gas...
He said the timing was retarding...
And, he said the car's high crankcase pressure is the reason for my car's failed oil-pan gasket, and why my fuel pump is making noises (suspected failing again - pump was replaced just last year).
He first suggested replacing the Purge Vent Valve, then later, said to spray a whole can of B-12 carb/throttle body cleaner through the throttle body while the car is running...
This sounded kind of "old-school" to me...

Thoughts....?

I am so tired of changing/replacing this damn CCV...

Thanks!
Jason

[collardgreens]

How many times have you changed it? I wonder why these continue to fail. Could there be something else causing high enough vacuum to destroy the gasket?

Might be time to try the CCV delete.

[Jason5driver]

How many times have you changed it? I wonder why these continue to fail. Could there be something else causing high enough vacuum to destroy the gasket?

Might be time to try the CCV delete.

I last replaced my CCV with the Cold-weather version in Jan. of 2010.
I think I have approximately 15-20k miles on it, maybe...?
Believe me, I definitely have been thinking HARD about deleting the CCV, and installing an Oil catch can....


Gary at Auto Solutions pre-design scheme:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=588505&page=5

http://germanautosolutions.com/BMW_Solutions.html



And, there is always the Catch-Can method as well...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...69#post6636869

Poolman's:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=431442

[Graham E39 528i]

Maybe you have excessive blow past the piston rings. Have you checked the compression?

[Jason5driver]

Maybe you have excessive blow past the piston rings. Have you checked the compression?

No, I have not checked the compression, but that is a great idea, thanks!

I think Jared also mentioned that the valve seals could also cause the problem...

I am going to have the CCV checked per the Bentley, and look into the compression check as well...

I am still leaning towards a bad CCV as the culprit, because when I replaced the oil filter housing gasket, I cleaned out some of the hoses and the dipstick tube, and was finding gunk and condensation...

I very much appreciate the input and feedback!

Thanks!
Jason

[Schitzo]

I don't know what is going on with your engine but I highly doubt it has anything to do with your fuel pump. One of the most common signs of a faulty fuel tank purge valve is difficulty filling the fuel tank especially on hot days. The the fuel nozzle will click well before the tank is full. Furthermore, if any of your fuel tank ventilation systems fail, the check engine light will come on.

[16valex]

Jason, I can't see how CCV is related to your fuel pump. On an M52 engine I can a bit of relationship but not on an M54.

AS for purge valve. The pure valve's job is to purge any fuel vapor from the charcoal canister to be reuse and that's it.

[Jason5driver]

I don't know what is going on with your engine but I highly doubt it has anything to do with your fuel pump.
One of the most common signs of a faulty fuel tank purge valve is difficulty filling the fuel tank especially on hot days.
The the fuel nozzle will click well before the tank is full.
Furthermore, if any of your fuel tank ventilation systems fail, the check engine light will come on.

The gas pump does periodically click off when filling up the car.

And, the Fuel Tank Breather Valve connects to the Charcoal Canister(within the left-rear fender) and the other end connects to the Throttle Body/ Intake Manifold.

Reference JimLev's post below:
Thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...84#post6462584

That's it [Fuel Tank Breather Valve]. The DME controls it. One hose goes to the charcoal cannister that is connected to the fuel tank.
The other hose connects to the intake manifold
The charcoal absorbs fuel vapors, in the old days the tank was vented to atmosphere.
The purge valve allows the vapors to be sucked out of the charcoal and into the engine.

Jason, I can't see how CCV is related to your fuel pump. On an M52 engine I can a bit of relationship but not on an M54.

AS for purge valve. The pure valve's job is to purge any fuel vapor from the charcoal canister to be reuse and that's it.

The CCV is connected to the Intake Manifold, and the Valve Cover.
The Fuel Tank Breather Valve is also connected to the Intake Manifold.

Reference Steve530's post below:

I was browsing and found a nice photo of the back of a M54 intake manifold with hoses attached. I edited and annotated the photo to show the location of the attachment of the fuel tank breather (purge) valve and the suction jet pump.

Hypothesis:
If the CCV is failing, or has failed, it can suck oil up into the Intake Manifold, and thus CLOG the vacuum hoses leading off the Intake Manifold, in this case, the Fuel Tank Breather Valve....

[16valex]

The gas pump does periodically click off when filling up the car.

And, the Fuel Tank Breather Valve connects to the Charcoal Canister(within the left-rear fender) and the other end connects to the Throttle Body/ Intake Manifold.

Reference JimLev's post below:
Thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...84#post6462584






The CCV is connected to the Intake Manifold, and the Valve Cover.
The Fuel Tank Breather Valve is also connected to the Intake Manifold.

Reference Steve530's post below:


Hypothesis:
If the CCV is failing, or has failed, it can suck oil up into the Intake Manifold, and thus CLOG the vacuum hoses leading off the Intake Manifold, in this case, the Fuel Tank Breather Valve....

Jason, if you think the CCV clogging issue has caused your purge valve to premature dead, then one thing you can do is replace the hose to the purge line, but I doubted.
9 out 10 times the electric motor is dead.

[Jason5driver]

Jason, if you think the CCV clogging issue has caused your purge valve to premature dead, then one thing you can do is replace the hose to the purge line, but I doubted.
9 out 10 times the electric motor is dead.

Yes, I agree, great idea...!
I think it is a great idea to replace the vacuum to the Fuel Tank Breather Valve, and see if that does anything...

Thanks!

Have you replaced this Vacuum line yet?
And, if so, did you use some vacuum hose from Auto Zone, of just bought it from a vendor/ dealer...?

Also, Since the CCV is giving pressure or vacuum within the Valve Cover, and Intake Manifold, wouldn't it make sense that if the those pressures/vacuums are off, then it would mess up the pressure for the fuel system or within the fuel tank / fuel pump...?

[Johal E32]

the ccv is the clutch control valve, right?

[16valex]

Have you replaced this Vacuum line yet?

No, I have not.

And, if so, did you use some vacuum hose from Auto Zone, of just bought it from a vendor/ dealer...?

I used vacuum hose stock from Autozone. Autozone's stock vacuum is not so rubbery to my taste but I was in a pinch and thought would be OK to use.

Also, Since the CCV is giving pressure or vacuum within the Valve Cover, and Intake Manifold, wouldn't it make sense that if the those pressures/vacuums are off, then it would mess up the pressure for the fuel system or within the fuel tank / fuel pump...?

Quick answer is NO if the CCV valve is clogged.
But, Yes if the CCV valve has a leak. Because it will effect the over all vacuum in the intake manifold and therefore being the main vacuum supplier any thing connects to it will be effected too. In the M54 engine's case from your picture that you just stole from BB shown the breather and the SJP connected to IM. Subsequently, your idle and your brake booster will be effected.

Again the point I try to say is if your CCV valve is clogged should not effect your fuel pump.

[Cyrix2k]

It won't affect your fuel pump at all, but it WILL affect seals. I once made the mistake of sealing the valve cover completely and it blew the dipstick out. Of course, this was also on a motor with bad rings/really bad blowby. Personally, I'd delete it and run a catch can. I wasn't paying too much attention when I pulled my M50 apart, that engine doesn't appear to even have a CCV. Maybe retrofit that system?

the ccv is the clutch control valve, right?

Crank Case Vent

[Jason5driver]

Thanks Alex for the input!

I feel better about buying the OEM hoses from the dealer...

Maybe it is not so specific towards the CCV, but maybe more with the oil?
Or, bad fuel (Ethanol and water in the gas)...?

Link:
http://www.carterfueldelivery.com/fu...rt/TEC1608.pdf

CONTAMINATED FUEL
Fuel tank contamination is the number one cause of in-tank electric fuel pump failures. This contamination is often the result of moisture in the fuel tank leading to fuel tank oxidation, causing rust to form in the fuel tank.
The rust is then ingested by the fuel pump, ultimately bringing about pump failure.

My last oil analysis showed high levels of Oxidation and Nitration.

[Cyrix2k]

ethanol absorbs minor amounts of water and it would take a while for that damage to manifest itself, probably more than a year. What brand pump did you use? I suppose a bad FPR may cause issues, but even then the pumps usually do pretty well against high pressure.

[Jason5driver]

Ethanol absorbs minor amounts of water and it would take a while for that damage to manifest itself, probably more than a year.
What brand pump did you use?
I suppose a bad FPR may cause issues, but even then the pumps usually do pretty well against high pressure.

An OEM fuel pump (Bosch?) was installed.
Fuel filter with fuel pressure regulator incorporated in it (for newer facelift models) was also installed at the same time.

I have recently replaced the fuel filter (Mahle-OEM) again, just last month.

Have you ever heard of anyone spraying a whole can of throttle body cleaner through the throttle body, while the car is running on an M54...?
I have seen/ done this on old VW bugs, but on the M54...?

Thanks!
Jason

[Cyrix2k]

the ccv is the clutch control valve, right?

OEM Bosch fuel pump was installed.
Fuel filter with fuel pressure regulator incorporated in it (for newer facelift models) was also installed at the same time.

I have recently replaced the fuel filter (Mahle-OEM) again, just last month.

Have you ever heard of anyone spraying a whole can of throttle body cleaner through the throttle body, while the car is running on an M54...?
I have seen/ done this on old VW bugs, but on the M54...?

Thanks!
Jason

no, but it would do essentially the same thing as running seafoam through the engine or pouring in water, both of which were/are common. These days, there is really no reason to do that. The fuel has additives in it which clean quite well.

Check your fuel pressure at the rail and if possible, check it while driving. If it comes back fine, I would imagine your fuel pump is A-OK. If it idles fine (read smoothly, the engine shouldn't rock at all), I'd clean the TB with a toothbrush & tb cleaner, clean the ICV, and check the TPS. Or maybe I'm interpreting "hesitant acceleration" incorrectly. Does it momentarily pause when you hit the gas or does it refuse to accelerate? Is the acceleration smooth when it does go?

[Jason5driver]

no, but it would do essentially the same thing as running seafoam through the engine or pouring in water, both of which were/are common. These days, there is really no reason to do that. The fuel has additives in it which clean quite well.

Check your fuel pressure at the rail and if possible, check it while driving.
If it comes back fine, I would imagine your fuel pump is A-OK.
If it idles fine (read smoothly, the engine shouldn't rock at all), I'd clean the TB with a toothbrush & tb cleaner, clean the ICV, and check the TPS.

Or maybe I'm interpreting "hesitant acceleration" incorrectly.
Does it momentarily pause when you hit the gas or does it refuse to accelerate?
Is the acceleration smooth when it does go?

What is "TPS"...?
Throttle Position Sensor?

Yes, I also initially thought of guys running Sea Foam through the brake booster line when I heard about the spraying Throttle body cleaner into the throttle body...

I have had the fuel pump checked out via reading the fuel pressure, and Ohm reader by my local certified BMW master tech - basically checks specified in the Bentley manual.

Everything checks out fine...!

However, I can still hear the pump intermittently whine/ make noises, and the car hesitate when hitting the gas...

The hesitation is when I hit the gas (specifically hard) the car just barely moves...
There is no kick-down, but almost a lag/ drop, then the car gradually accelerates...

I guess that is the momentary pause like you described above...

At a stop, then taking off, the acceleration is not as sharp, and I can feel lag in that too...

The car has lost its "quickness" if you will, if you can consider my car "quick"...
LOL!

Thank you much for your input...!

Could a torn diaphragm within the Disa Valve be a culprit...?

What Oil Catch Can do you like/ recommend?

Thanks!
Jason

[Cyrix2k]

What is "TPS"...?
Throttle Position Sensor?

oops, yes, throttle position sensor

Yes, I also initially thought of guys running Sea Foam through the brake booster line when I heard about the spraying Throttle body cleaner into the throttle body...

I have had the fuel pump checked out via reading the fuel pressure, and Ohm reader by my local certified BMW master tech - basically checks specified in the Bentley manual.

Everything checks out fine...!

However, I can still hear the pump intermittently whine/ make noises, and the car hesitate when hitting the gas...

The hesitation is when I hit the gas (specifically hard) the car just barely moves...
There is no kick-down, but almost a lag/ drop, then the car gradually accelerates...

I guess that is the momentary pause like you described above...

At a stop, then taking off, the acceleration is not as sharp, and I can feel lag in that too...

The car has lost its "quickness" if you will, if you can consider my car "quick"...
LOL!

Thank you much for your input...!

Could a torn diaphragm within the Disa Valve be a culprit...?

What Oil Catch Can do you like/ recommend?

Thanks!
Jason

Ok, well I don't think it's the fuel pump at fault. Even if it were, the symptoms would be different - the car will still take off sharply, but would then die/stumble afterwards. I would imagine a bad DISA valve actually could cause such a problem and if it's not that, it could be a myriad of other things. As your symptoms are not particularly bad, I strongly suspect it is something minor that is causing havoc with the DME. Also, when was the last time you addressed your VANOS? I wonder if it's stuck advanced... what happens if you manually downshift at highway speeds, cruise at say 4k rpms and then gun it? Does it take off sharply or still stumble?

As for the catch can, just get one that's baffled inside. I don't even have one on mine right now, but I'm also running a different engine management system that is very tolerant to air leaks (I have no MAF sensor at all, so I don't need a closed air system).

[Jason5driver]

oops, yes, throttle position sensor

Ok, well I don't think it's the fuel pump at fault.
Even if it were, the symptoms would be different - the car will still take off sharply, but would then die/stumble afterwards.

I would imagine a bad DISA valve actually could cause such a problem and if it's not that, it could be a myriad of other things.

As your symptoms are not particularly bad, I strongly suspect it is something minor that is causing havoc with the DME.

Also, when was the last time you addressed your VANOS?

I wonder if it's stuck advanced... what happens if you manually downshift at highway speeds, cruise at say 4k rpms and then gun it? Does it take off sharply or still stumble?

As for the catch can, just get one that's baffled inside.
I don't even have one on mine right now, but I'm also running a different engine management system that is very tolerant to air leaks (I have no MAF sensor at all, so I don't need a closed air system).

So, do you think "whatever the problem is..." would cause the fuel pump to make moan intermittently...?

I am going to inspect the Disa this weekend.
I last checked it/ cleaned it back in Jan. 2010.
Reference my thread:
CCV Replacement FYI - M54 ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)
Jason5driver

I replaced the Vanos Seals at 80k miles.
My car is now at 128k miles.

I will try downshifting hard when cruising on the highway, and see what the car does...

I will let you know...

Regarding the Catch Can....
I was looking into something like this....
Is that a catch can? Yes it is. Goodbye CCV ( 1 2 3 4) eparayno

This was the reply I recently received from someone at the dealer...

The Leak Diagnosis Pump very well could be causing some issues, but you typically see a check engine light relating to gas vapors exceeding their limit.

Has your DISA valve ever been replaced?

It's an adjusting unit in your intake manifold that is prone to fail around 60k.
A diaphragm tears causing a massive vacuum leak.
However, due to its location, will normally not trip a check engine light.
This causes problems around idle and lower RPM acceleration.
It might be something to look into -- even though it being fuel related, specifically to the pump, can be the issue too.

Thanks!
Jason

[Cyrix2k]

How much noise is the pump making? Some noise is normal. Mine is virtually inaudible in the e39, but some pumps do whine in normal operation. The DME controls the fuel pump, but I'm not sure if it switches on and off while the engine is running. When you first turn the key on, the pump should kick on, come up to pressure, and then turn and remain off until the engine cranks.

[Jason5driver]

How much noise is the pump making? Some noise is normal. Mine is virtually inaudible in the e39, but some pumps do whine in normal operation. The DME controls the fuel pump, but I'm not sure if it switches on and off while the engine is running. When you first turn the key on, the pump should kick on, come up to pressure, and then turn and remain off until the engine cranks.

I don't hear a lot of noise coming from the fuel pump area now...
I switched gas stations, and have been using Quick Trip and Shell.
The sounds started when using the Ethanol-free Conoco station, so I stopped going there.

I have noticed that at start-up, the car spits out a LOT of bad fume, almost gasoline smelling...
Running rich?

I also did notice a little bit of a weird sound (humming/ buzzing) from the engine bay at start-up...

I am suspecting:
1. Disa Valve
2. Secondary Air pump/ air valve/ clogged hoses
3. Jet pump hose between gas tanks

And, I have had the car checked again for codes being thrown, and there is still NO codes...
However, I KNOW there is something wrong...

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Jason

[Cyrix2k]

If it's running rich, check your fuel pressure before doing anything else.

[Jason5driver]

If it's running rich, check your fuel pressure before doing anything else.

It has been checked twice in the last month and a half.
The pressure is within spec.
Still no codes...
At least, that is what my local indy has told me...
I am really debating taking a trip to the dealer...


I had no codes as well when the first fuel pump was replaced too...

[Cyrix2k]

Are your cats good?