stanced e21's??

[OLD MAN]

Okay, so what is everyone's ideal lowering for handling? curious to know

For Handling -

Front lower control arms parallel to the ground

Rear trailing arms with the mounting points on the rear sub frame about 1/2" higher off the ground then the center of the rear axles.

[dtlasky]

Charlie Scott (chad e46) /thread

[Chubbz]

Now I love that! What size are those bbs's?

[dtlasky]

Now I love that! What size are those bbs's?

16x9 et 1 16x10 et -1

[Chubbz]

So perfect

[jrcook320]

For Handling -

Front lower control arms parallel to the ground

Rear trailing arms with the mounting points on the rear sub frame about 1/2" higher off the ground then the center of the rear axles.

This at a minimum... I would argue that front control arms should be above parallel. If you start with parallel, they'll be less than that once suspension compresses.

Ultimately, handling is about having good suspension geometry which is what determines how the roll center relates to the center of gravity, how weight transfers, and how well the car can maintain the maximum contact patch through a corner. What are the adverse affects? As control arm angles go below parallel, the roll center of the car gets lower and further away from the center of gravity, significantly increasing body roll. Body roll increases the amount of time it takes for weight transfer to occur (weight transfer is what plants a tire), and also reduces the contact patch (or makes it more difficult to achieve maximum contact patch) in a turn.

If you are serious about real handling to carry speed through a corner, not just the allusion of handling due to a low center of gravity and stiff suspension, you will be concerned about suspension geometry. You can slam your car and have the feeling of "good handling", and it can be fun to drive that way on the street, but it will not be fast or be capable of pulling the same g's compared to a car that is well balanced and has good suspension geometry.

The difference between a guy who wants stance and one who doesn't is the importance they place on the real performance of their vehicle vs the look. Different strokes for different folks, if you disagree, get over it. I like the stanced look (with minimal stretch, that is) and really want to go lower with my car and eventually will. The adverse affect on handling will be just fine for 99% of the driving I do. However, at the same time I intend to do some major subframe work to counteract the adverse affects as much as possible. For the 1% of the time my car actually needs to handle well (autox or a track day), it will get raised back up to have better suspension geometry.

As it is now, my rear subframe is already raised 1" over stock. This greatly improved straight line traction simply due to better trailing arm angles..

Just my $.02. I'm certainly not trying to start an argument, just stating the facts on lowering a car. If you want it low, I say go for it. It looks good. Just understand that beyond a certain point it is not a performance modification. It's just a modification.

[Chubbz]

Thank you so much for actually explaining this. But for me, low is the way to go. I auto x maybe once a year, the rest is spent daily driving....sometimes spirited. Btw, love your car amg auto x vids.

[bflan2001]

As a reference for those interested in handling, this is what Dinan considered the ideal ride height for handling. It sits higher than most lowered E21s, and even at this height they modified the subframes to improve the geometry.

[Chubbz]

Well, dinan knows what they are talking about....but I can't get past that gap honestly

[gsumzzz]

Not all roads are glass smooth. A nice twisty washpan back road will be the real test. Dinan knew that.

[Chubbz]

Once again, i'm not arguing that fact, I just don't like it

[OLD MAN]

This at a minimum... I would argue that front control arms should be above parallel. If you start with parallel, they'll be less than that once suspension compresses.

The difference between a guy who wants stance and one who doesn't is the importance they place on the real performance of their vehicle vs the look. Different strokes for different folks, if you disagree, get over it. I like the stanced look (with minimal stretch, that is) and really want to go lower with my car and eventually will. The adverse affect on handling will be just fine for 99% of the driving I do. However, at the same time I intend to do some major subframe work to counteract the adverse affects as much as possible. For the 1% of the time my car actually needs to handle well (autox or a track day), it will get raised back up to have better suspension geometry.

As it is now, my rear subframe is already raised 1" over stock. This greatly improved straight line traction simply due to better trailing arm angles..

Just my $.02. I'm certainly not trying to start an argument, just stating the facts on lowering a car. If you want it low, I say go for it. It looks good. Just understand that beyond a certain point it is not a performance modification. It's just a modification.

I agree - was just playing to the crowd.....

One day at an event I raised the silver car back up an 1" and dropped over a couple of seconds off the time.

[gsumzzz]

damn, meant washboard

some folks however swear by their daily use of bump stops.

[Chubbz]

Thankfully around here, there's no use for bump stops.

[gsumzzz]

how about some added luxury?


camber?


chubbz, just messing with you. love the neeks car look just like everyone but, I favor the Dinan philosophy for suspension tweaks. too each their own as has been said. good luck with your "new" e21 as i can feel your excitement. looking forward to pics of you tearing her apart to upgrade per your specs.

[Chubbz]

I don't see where you're going with this?

[gsumzzz]

and you think i do? here's another guy with a slammed car.

[midlifebmw]

I've got Billys all round and the '82 323i is lowered about 2.25" below stock or more. G-d it hit just about any bump in the road. I have to say the static drop is best and with the 15x7's on the car, it almost doesn't slip out on tight corners.

[Chubbz]

and you think i do? here's another guy with a slammed car.

Lol..... so you're the random one

I've got Billys all round and the '82 323i is lowered about 2.25" below stock or more. G-d it hit just about any bump in the road. I have to say the static drop is best and with the 15x7's on the car, it almost doesn't slip out on tight corners.

Billy coilovers? Or what spring?

[Isdera]

Lol..... so you're the random one



Billy coilovers? Or what spring?

lol.

This thread has shown me how little you actually know... But learning is the first step. FYI StanceWorks may be a better site for you as thats all they really deal with over there

[Chubbz]

lol.

This thread has shown me how little you actually know... But learning is the first step. FYI StanceWorks may be a better site for you as thats all they really deal with over there

Actually shows how little you know. Bilstein DOES make coilovers. Google things first before you judge, especially people you don't know.

[Tom D]

Actually shows how little you know. Bilstein DOES make coilers.

maybe it shows how little i know, but i do believe that bilstien DOES NOT make coilovers for the E21.

with the exception of the rear shocks that is, but those are only adjustable with a three position spring perch clip.

[Chubbz]

They don't, THAT'S why I asked. I figured if he did, how he got them to work.

Just because i'm fairly new to the forums doesn't mean i'm clueless. I simply asked questions and get insulted and made out as an idiot, which I don't appreciate. If this is what it's about in here, I'll gladly step away.

[Tom D]

i don't believe he said he has billy coil-overs, but that he has billys all round. if indeed he has a coil-over front struts, well then that's fairly easy to make using VW inserts, some treaded collars and shortened strut tubes.

maybe you should take less of a i know more then you attitude and ask a question using full sentences. we, unlike most forums, are a pretty helpful group, but you seem to be irritating the masses.

[Chubbz]

Tom. In no way do I feel like i did or said anything to irritate anyone, nor did I use the approach that I know more than anyone. All of my posts are grammatically correct and should be easy to understand. If posting "this thread has shown me how little you know" is a helpful response, then count me out. I don't take disrespect lightly.

And the only reason I asked about the billy coilovers was because of the drop he accomplished.