lovnbmws e36 LSx Swap

[lovnbmws]

Hi guys,

I’m getting very serious about doing the LSx swap into my 99 e36 323is.
I’ve been reading lots of threads here on the forum and was hoping to get some feedback on my assumptions.

First a little background… I’ve done a few swaps before pretty straight forward e30 m30 but I’m confident in my fabrication and trouble shooting skills. That being said I don’t currently have a shop to work in so I will be doing the swap in my driveway after work and on weekends. To make matters worse I live in Portland and don’t expect the weather to be real nice past September (I may be a little optimistic here) so I want to get the swap done quickly. And of course I want to do it with the highest quality and lowest cost possible…

With those points in mind here’s my plan:
Find a complete drop out engine with harness, computer, accessories, t56. From what I’ve gathered the Camaro/firebird ls1 needs the least modifications to fit. An ls2 (if my budget will allow) would require the f-body oil pan, more difficulties around the tach, and Camaro linkage for the t56.

I could probably save money by piecing together a truck block and Camaro intake/fuel rail and sourcing the T56 and clutch assembly separately. But I’m afraid of missing little parts here and there and getting nickeled and dimed to death not to mention that would probably take a lot more time that I don't have.

I really liked the looks of the Samberg engine mounts and headers after reading Tongboy’s build thread but after reading a post about the difficulties in changing the control arms I’m starting to lean towards the Vorshlag mounts and headers. I believe the engine mounts and headers would be the most time consuming for me to fabricate which is why I’m inclined to purchase. Tranny mount and steering linkage look easy enough for me to fabricate and I’ve read the driveline can be made by less expensive independent shops. Does anyone know the physical engine placement differences between the Vorshlag and Samberg mounts? Could a combination of Vorshlag engine mounts and Samborg headers be possible?


Other things under consideration:
ABS pump relocation – I think I’ve got this figured out

DBW pedal modification – I’m still a little sketchy on what exactly needs to be modified. Is the physical pedal out of a GM DBW car needed or is a position sensor retrofitted to the BMW pedal? On a sub note my car is currently an automatic and I will be converting the pedal assembly to add the clutch pedal. When I get the clutch pedal assembly will I need to look for one that came from a DBW car?

Clutch – is there more to the clutch than getting the correct fittings and connecting the hydraulics? Is the Vorshlag Throw Out Bearing kit worth the money or a clever marketing ploy?

Fuel pump and filter – I need to do more research here, I’m a little lost but seems straight forward in concept… ls1 requires more fuel pressure so increase fuel pump and filter for more PSI.

Wiring – obviously going to be a pain in the arse. I’ll just have to read through the schematics and trace out lots of wire as my car is OBDII and I plan on keeping it that way.

Engine ECU – so I assume it will need reprograming and I will need to send it out for that…

Exhaust – I’m thinking custom exhaust with duel cats to an x pipe back to an aftermarket e36 muffler. I’ll probably have an exhaust shop do the work. It will be an everyday driver so I want it mostly quiet unless I get on it. I just rode in my buddy’s G8 today and he just added Borla exhaust. It sounds nice a deep but maybe a touch louder than I’m looking for.

I’m considering a custom aluminum radiator as I think I can get one made for less than aftermarket ones and maybe have it made lower to fit the air intake straight out the front. I’ll probably also get a Volvo pusher fan.

Am I missing anything big? What about a lot of little things that tend to add up in engine swaps? Like cooling hoses… is it straight forward I haven’t seen any threads detailing the cooling system.

Well I think that’s enough from me for now. I’m open to any and all feedback so please let me know if I’m way off base or mostly on track. Also if anyone knows where to find good deals on any of the parts I’ll be needing please let me know… I have cash to spend and want to get this project going!


Quick pic of my 323is sitting sadly with a leaky #3 cylinder

[Bluebimma]

May or may not be help, but i have my original e36/t56 transmission mount, custom fabbed for 2 degrees and the "autozone" rubber transmission mount. The mount itself is about 2" tall and maybe 3" wide. The "specs" to bolt the engine in the chassis, centered, with proper angle are there, but my design was changed to accommodate the dual exhaust. If you want it, let me know? Its not "pretty" but it is correct.

[BRAAP]

Clutch is incredibly simple, details covered in my build thread. Being local I'd be glad to mod your GM clutch line, this quick mod makes the GM line plug-&-play into the BMW master. You're welcome to see mine first hand and drive it.

Something I want to throw out there, there is a very real difference between rubber mounts and poly. I used the JTR kit, uses OE GM rubber mounts and retains all the smoothness BMW is known for. The poly mounts transmit vibrations and noise into the chassis, depending on your sensitivity or goals for the car may not be an issue, for me and this being a daily driver that is driven ALOT, (6000 miles in the past 2 and half months). Having driven another LSx swapped E36 with the Poly mounts, (same year and model as mine), I'm glad I went with the rubber mounts.

Pretty soon Portland will be the LSx E36 hub. Mine and Tongs are running, Agenthubcap is building one, BrianV8Z is building his in my shop, yours...

[bimerok]

To answer some of the questions

Most likely you will not be able to mix and match headers and mounts from different vendors.

DBW - there is nothing magical about the DBW pedal. All you need is a complete pedal from the donor and the connector pig tail. Then you can mount the DBW pedal as a whole or adapt it to the OEM BMW pedal. (See link to LS2 swap in my sig.) You would not want/be easily able to mount just the sensor to the stock pedal. It would be too complicated and unreasonable.

Clutch is as easy as you described. you can get couple of fittings and be done, or go BRAAP's method, which is a little more involved and requires machinery. In any case the product that you mentioned is not worth even the half of that price.

Fuel - this is also very straight forward. Stock BMW fuel pump is more than capable for stock or slightly modified LS2 engine - that’s over 400+HP/trq crank. All you need is the Corvette FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator) that will allow the pressure to be as required by LSx engine (which again, the pump is capable of delivering) and have the return line to be right there in FPR instead of fuel rail as in stock BMW. Some used BMW x5 (v8) FPR as it seems to be the same type as Corvette's, but this is not well documented and may require additional research.

ECU - the two major things that need to be done/reprogrammed are: deletion of VATS (GM security system) and Tach output adjusted to work with BMW Tach.

Radiator - the stock BMW radiator (personal experience with 328 and m3) is again adequate and capable of cooling the engine without problem. It was fine during the open track day with ambient temps of 100+F. No additional fan was used besides stock Aux fan.

All in all you have done good base research and are in the good direction. There are defiantly lots of small bits and pieces that you will need, but they are usually nothing major and are available.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[lovnbmws]

Thanks for the offer Bluebimma, I also plan to run duel exhaust so it might not work out but I will keep you in mind when I get closer to that point.

My goal for the car is to be a smoooooth daily driver so I definitely like the idea of rubber mounts verses poly.

Right now I’m daily driving my e30 335i. It’s got an e36m3 5lug swap with solid adjustable camber/caster plates, adjustable rear sub frame, all poly bushings, bilsteins, H&R springs, Suspension Techniques 22/19 Sway Bars and 245/35/17 all the way around on 5-series offset rims. It’s fun fun fun and handles like a roller coaster… including feeling every single pebble in the road. And it’s way loud having straight pipe back to a flow master muffler. It was my daily driver in collage but now it needs to strictly be my toy for going to the track and tearing up the back roads on sunny days. Unfortunately the power to weight ratio has spoiled me and I can’t afford anything that will satisfy my craving for acceleration coupled with the comfort, inherent handling and luxury of my e36. So it back to the drawing board to build what I want.

Thanks Braap that sounds awesome! A chance to see and drive your car!!! Who could turn that down? PM sent!
I’ve read yours and Tong’s build threads but I didn’t realize Agenthubcap and BrianV8Z were local and building LSx e36’s as well… sounds like we need to organize a meeting at the lucky lab to share notes!

Thanks for the feedback Bimerok! You definitely shed light on some of the dark spots for me. In regards to the radiator I figured stock was sufficient but mine needs to be replaced anyway. It was leaking and my car overheated causing coolant to leak into cylinder #3. I pulled the head and the gasket looked fine so I suspect the head is cracked. That’s part of the reason I’m doing the swap. After pulling the head I just can’t bring myself to spend $2k in rebuilding the head and putting it back stock.

I’ve seen a couple threads trying to use a corvette style intake going directly from the front of the car to the throttle body. In our cars the radiator and core support get in the way but a custom radiator could be made to leave space… Does anyone know how much performance gain this style intake would make? I figured it will probably cost an extra $400 but maybe the cost/benefit ratio is not worth it.

Thanks all and if anyone comes across an engine/t56 package let me know I’m looking hard!

[Kaane]

car-part.com is your friend, you can find 50 ls1 /t56 combos on there.

[lovnbmws]

car-part.com is your friend, you can find 50 ls1 /t56 combos on there.

cool I'll check it out thanks!

IT'S ON!!!!

I used car-part.com called the first local yard on the list and they had just gotten an 02 Camaro 6-speed with 60k miles complete package for $3900. The car wasn’t even in their full system yet. They are pulling the engine and it should be ready for pick up early next week. I’m stoked!!! Tomorrow I’m calling Vorshlog and I really hope they have parts in inventory!

I also asked for the pedal assembly... are there any other parts I may want to get from the donor car?

[invictuse36]

Sorry for the highjack....

How much easier will the ls1 swap be for a obd1 325?

[BRAAP]

Sorry for the highjack....

How much easier will the ls1 swap be for a obd1 325?

If you plan to retain equivalent of OBD-1 or less, emissions wise, there is no difference in the install and amount of wiring between '92-'99 E36, they are essentially the same.


FWIW, the clutch mod I referred to is less involved than the multiple fittings option. Sourcing fittings, shipping fittings, etc. The BRAAP versions requires only a stock GM clutch line and to have "any" machine shop with a lathe remove .020" off the OD, Wa-la, plug-and-play without hassles or potential leakpoints of fittings.

[lovnbmws]

a stock GM clutch line and to have "any" machine shop with a lathe remove .020" off the OD

This sounds like a great plan but I'm a little confused... what do I need to take .020" off of? The OD of clutch line itself? How do you chuck a clutch line into a lathe? Sounds dangerous... I'll probably understand more with I have the parts in my hand.


I just ordered my engine mounts and headers form Vorshlog. They said tehy have the parts in stock and should ship today or tomorrow!

[Kaane]

Just take your Fbody clutch line to BRAAP and he will do his magic.

[BRAAP]

No danger involved other than typical dangers involved in operating a metal lathe.

From my build thread;






GM clutch installed in the BMW M/C;



Here is KAANE's GM clutch line in my lathe just after machining .020" from the OD, prior to performing "the drill mod".




Took me longer to write this and embed the pics than to perform the mod. It is literally just that easy.

[asinapple8805]

BRAAP, what is the drill mod you speak of?

are you talking about increasing the ID of the clutch line? is it similar to removing the CDV in the BMWs?

[lovnbmws]

Now that you put it that way it makes perfect sense. I was for some reason envisioning a hard line with bends being chucked up in a lethe. Lol

[BRAAP]

BRAAP, what is the drill mod you speak of?

are you talking about increasing the ID of the clutch line? is it similar to removing the CDV in the BMWs?

Correct, "the drill mod" removes the restriction in the clutch line that serves similar purpose to BMW's CDV. GM just made a restriction in the line vs the more elaborate valve of BMW.

Here a couple links with more info;
http://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tra...-good-bad.html

http://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tra...d-resluts.html

Hope that helps,
Paul

[lovnbmws]

I just got back from looking at the car. They are in the middle of pulling the engine now and should have it ready for pick up this week!

Turns out its not a Camaro but a Trans-am...







It looks like it has headers and 3" exhaust... I wonder it the previous owner did anything else to the engine...?

Kinda funny while glancing around the engine bay I was surprised to see several bits and pieces made in Germany. lol I guess it wont be all that blasphemous after all.

[bmw335ist]

subscribed!!

[BRAAP]

Awesome.

[lovnbmws]

My Vorshlag engine mounts and headers just arrived! here's a teaser pic until I get home tonight and fully unpack the rest.

[lovnbmws]

Just picked up the engine today! It came with everything! Engine and tranny mounts, headders, cats, all 4 o2 sensors, shift knob, peddle assemble, drive line.

[hefftone]

Awesome....I'm completely jealous.

[lovnbmws]

Picked up a 3.91 LSD off craigslist this weekend



My order from McMaster Carr came in this morning with 1200 degree fiberglass sleeving of various sizes for protecting hoses and wires around the headers. Should help dress up the engine bay a bit too

[Pzary3233]

Clutch is incredibly simple, details covered in my build thread. Being local I'd be glad to mod your GM clutch line, this quick mod makes the GM line plug-&-play into the BMW master. You're welcome to see mine first hand and drive it.

Pretty soon Portland will be the LSx E36 hub. Mine and Tongs are running, Agenthubcap is building one, BrianV8Z is building his in my shop, yours...

The clutch line mod, is that for '95+ cars? If so I need to send you my line... :-)

Memphis will be a close second.... With two cars :-)

[BRAAP]

The clutch line mod, is that for '95+ cars? If so I need to send you my line... :-)

Memphis will be a close second.... With two cars :-)

You still have my shipping address? Send me your line, I'll take care of it.

Also, do you have an extra clutch line? If so, include it with a bill, I'll PayPal right away. Another member offshore wants one modded as well.

[e30shmobberr]

sweet! good luck man, i am doing a swap my self i know what you are going through (well to an extent) ha