Cold start issues, Indie VS. You

[PhillH]

Well my 01 e39 is progressively getting worse over the past few weeks, first it was hard to keep running after a cold start, I had to give it light revs for a minute to keep it from stalling only after sitting all night, completely cold. Then it was even harder to keep running as it would stumble even trying to give it light revs, now its taking even longer to get stable and it's doing it after only a couple hours of sitting. Once it's warmed up past the blue area on the temp gauge it runs like a champ, except the throttle tip-in is very abrupt. The check engine light came on when this first started and the indie told me the codes were reading as if it had a vacuum leak and misfire, he suspects it's in the usual place down on the intake boot or oil separator and want $400 to change them all out, I think thats an excellent price for parts and labor, changing all the usual suspects while he's in there. I don't think that's the case because under my hood everything looks brand new and all rubber is very pliable. I suspected maybe the Vanos or CPS. I already did the MAF clean and recalibrate on the throttle rheostat, it certainly helped with MPG and throttle tip-in but not the cold start issue. Scouring your posts I put together a plan, I already have the parts. I disconnected the Vanos and reached in through the window and on start-up it ran almost perfect. No need to feather the pedal. Sounds like your help has confirmed my suspitions. Plan of attack = change Vanos seals, we all know this needs done anyway, while I'm in there I got all new gaskets including the 15 bolt grommets, and oil neck seal, I;m going to fix the oil leak on the oil filter housing, im in this far so I gotta change the spark plugs with NGk Iridium. So, we're gonna see who's right, my Indie who I'm not downing, or all off you and your great wealth of information here. By the way, Beisan's seals looks primo and their shipping is fast, thanks so much to them for researching and fixing what would be a major expense with no help from BMW. Two thunbs up, support those guys! I will be doing a follow up for this with a video of a cold start before and after , hoping it helps others diagnose whether they have the same issue or not. Phill.

[edjack]

Good Luck with that. Please feed back to us with your results.

I suspect some mechanics are lazy, and do not do a diligent analysis, but just tend to throw parts at the problem.

[1919inyourface]

If your doing your vanos seals and oil filter housing gaskets, it would be silly to not to replace the CCV and all related hoses. Its right friggin there, and trust me, i just did it. Its a hefty amount of (easy) work and money (not too bad if you DIY) to do it all, but man your car will run like the day it pulled out of the dealership

But my main point is to replace the CCV if your going to do all that work anyways, and if you dont.....I'm gonna slap you :p

[edjack]

A bitch slap?

[PhillH]

I agree I should just do it all while Im in there, and now I probly will (thanks). But the rubber inside this engine compartment is probly a 9 1/2, 10 being new. Even though I know I should do it, it all seems so new and pliable. What are your thoughts?

Dam-it, can you list for me which hoses go with the CCV, and theres no way Im replacing the intake, that is literally like new. Thanks in advance.

[5mall5nail5]

Silly question but have you looked at the idle valve yet? It sounds possible your idle valve has gone the way of the ghost, given how you said the car runs awesome when warmed up (which is exactly how cars without idle valves behave)

[PhillH]

Very good point, I remember the old carbed cars, LOL. I got so long winded in the op I forgot to mention that when idling, if I take the oil cap off slightly it has strong vacuum, that leads me to believe that its not leaking somewhere else, but when I pull the connector off the Vanos it seems to run much better, think that's connected or would it still do that with a bad IAC?

[5mall5nail5]

Its hard to say because pulling things off the engine while its running may or may not put it into a limp mode that might change things all together. It sounds vanos related but it may not be. Tough call!

[PhillH]

Here are the codes if anyboby wants to take a stab at it.
204 CC idle speed, leakage air, signal implausible
227 E3 fuel trim bank 1 permissible range exceeded
228 E4 fuel trim bank 2 permissible range exceeded
203 CB fuel trim bank 2 control unit
202 CA fuel trim bank 1 control unit
242 f2 misfire cylinder 5
240 f0 misfire cylinder 3
239 ef misfire cylinder 2
241 f1 misfire cylinder 4
238 ee misfire cylinder 1
So that's all of them, thank god cylinder 6 is ok, I thought I was gonna have to throw the car away.

I read in another forum that only pre- vanos cars have the IAC valve pre 8-98, is that true?

Video of the rough running is on Youtube,
search for
Phill N the BMW 002
you will see and hear the problem.

[PhillH]

Today was a bid day, really tore into this thing and got alot done. Changed the valve cover gaskets, all, even the grommets, the spark plugs, the oil filter housing gasket, was hoping the vanos gaskets would fix my cold start issue, but it didn't. any suggestions?

[champaign777]

it looks like you have multiple issues

consider this :

secondary air pump
fuel filter
CCV
Vanos seals

[PhillH]

I left that out of my last post, sorry. I did the vanos seals today also, that was the original start of this journey, i didn't think that was the problem but I knew they needed done and wanted to get that ruled out first. I'm sure the fuel filter needs done and I will as part of maintenance but I don't think that will fix itself as the engine gets warm, am I wrong? I knew I should have done the ccv while I was in there. Could you explain in a little more detail? Thanks.

[CBi]

Phil,

After looking at the codes you posted, and watching your video, I want to let you know you're not going to have to "throw your car away"! Codes 227 and 228 point to an air leak in most cases. The misfires may possibly be due to bad coils, but they're most likely because of the excessively lean mixture.

With your mileage and symptoms, the first thing I would do if the car was in my shop would be to perform a smoke test. The most common cause of air leaks on those engines is the bellows on the intake that connects to the idle valve, and the CCV or "cyclone valve". If your indy doesn't have a smoke machine, find one that does. Your engine is very sensitive to air leaks, and tracking them down without a smoke machine becomes guesswork.

(I'm an ASE master tech/indy BMW tech if that gives this post any validity)

[PhillH]

Thanks very much CBI, I am considering just replacing the whole dam vacuum system and be done with it. This would be the ccv and all hoses attached, the idle control valve and the inner intake boot, the outer one looks as if it must have been replaced its very pliable, and the throttle body gasket. I'm at the point where I don't think it makes sense to replace one bad hose and not the rest.

I just got back from the Indie, I'm gonna leave it overnight Monday so he can cold start it Tues morning, he seems to think it might not be related to the ccv, however, we both agree that it needs done as all of these cars with over 100k need done regardless off whether or not it's causing a problem, just consider it routine maintenance, he says he does 2 or 3 a week. The problem will be fixed, I will get to the bottom of this. After all this "ROUTINE MAINTENANCE" my car should be good for awhile. Vanos seals, valve cover gaskets, upper and lower radiator hoses, flush radiator, new ccv and hoses, oil filter housing gasket, spark plugs. I knew when I buy a used car that it would need maintenance, and I go overboard, especially when I like the car this much. I'll keep you posted.

[PhillH]

Anybody still following this? I got a call from my Indie today as he was taking apart the car to get at the ccv, this is a warning to all, my (correct me if I'm wrong on the name here) air adjuster valve was completely busted, I looked at it when I went in after work. The butterfly was almost completely falling off. This to me seems like it could cause MAJOR engine problems if it let completely go, as I was looking at it the little metal hinge pins fell off in my hand and the butterfly fell out, if these where to come off while the engine was running who knows what catastrophe that could do sucked directly into a cylinder! I'm not even sure if this was the idle issue I'm having, but disaster averted. Also, the ccv diaphragm is bad and letting oil go by the separator into the intake, causing carbon buildup. It's not bad now but if I had waited if would be getting worse daily, then I'd be looking at a intake cleaning. So tomorrow the ccv and all hoses replaced along with the air adjuster. Hopefully this also fixes the cold start issue.

Ok here it is, the solution. Turns out it was multiple problems, so I'm not sure how much help this will be to others. I already told you about the Intake Manifold Runner Valve Adjuster Unit, that was a big problem, but not likely the cold start issue. The Crankcase Vent Valve was apparently changed by the previous owner/ mechanic, they did not change the associated hoses with it, although the hoses were not the culprit here I did have them replaced. When they replaced the ccv they did not realize that some of these engines have a small vacuum hose attached, and some get that nipple plugged, mine gets the nipple plugged but they did not do it. It caused one of the connections to overheat and melted the connection point, causing the small leak which wasnt enough to turn on the check engine light, into a big leak which did. And that is why the cold start issue progressively got worse, every time I drove it melted a little more. So for all four hoses, the ccv valve and the intake runner valve it ran me $676, not terrible I think. Indie told me the check engine light was out as soon as he started it, he didn't even have to clear it.

[Doru]

Phil, how many miles did you have on the car?

[PhillH]

It had 116k on it when I got it, not it has 118K. Why do you ask?

[xisco44]

po replace that valve in my car at the beginning of this year
the disa valve as we all know it

[Vatoman]

air adjuster valve? Is that the same as the air distribution piece that sits atop the intake? I just replaced mine too preventive. Thats crazy how it burned got a pic?

[Doru]

It had 116k on it when I got it, not it has 118K. Why do you ask?

The whole DISA issue I was reading on different forums looked like really scary stuff. Especially this post. Go to page 2 and check reply #36 and down.
I started to narrow down DISA failures, then I gathered info on how to recognize a failing DISA (as much as I could). Then, I tried to see at what mileage this happens, and it seems at 100k miles the M54 DISA it's on borrowed time. When I did my cooling overhaul about 1month ago I had some some slight whirring. I thought maybe it'sthe DISA. I had 89 k miles (+/-). When I pulled the DISA, the metal pin was halfway out, and the flapper had about 1/4" turn very sloppy, then it felt like the new one. So I replaced it. So the reason I was asking is for a statistical point if you will.
But thank you for posting the DISA deal.

[PhillH]

Wow, I knew by looking at it this could have been a serious issue, my Indie found this in the nick of time, talk about luck, I was literally a few miles from that same situation. When I came in to look at it it was still in one piece, I wasn't even trying to turn the flapper, just looking, and the whole thing fell out in my hand. There were little metal pieces that hold the flap into the housing and they fell right off too. I would seriously put this at the top of the list if your car has 100k don't wait, do it now. One extra mile could be the last one.

[GGM E39]

It's a vacuum leak with those codes. It is cheap and easy to take in mani off change the seals and EVERY hose that goes to it. I clamp all my hoses on too. The brake booster hose gets real hard and leaks. I had a similar prob and did what I suggested, 2000 miles later with no CEL and way better running. Good luck