bsw speakears???

[ZGator]

So, if this is the case, then it doesn't really make sense to replace the HK amp, unless either you are replacing it with an active cross over and 3 amps (2 2 channel and one 3 channel), or a 5 channel with passive cross overs. The former would work better, but take up too much space, and the latter is something of a compromise. Has anyone done either of these two set ups? How have you amp replacement enthusiasts dealt with the 3 way set up for the front speakers? Just to stay on point to the OP, I recently bought the BSW upgrade package and am contemplating installation, I got the Integral Audio 8" sub as well, and I trying to decide on amplification

Sounds like I did the same as you already, I have new BSW all around, new head unit which powers the HK amp for speakers up front - I send Speaker Level inputs to it - and it sounds fine - it accepts Hi Level inputs - and is now basically a glorified active crossover. The problem with replacing it is that it powers the front woofers, front tweeters, front mid range, rear speakers, that's 8 channels - not including the sub. I am sure all/most people who replace the HK front speakers amp use new speakers and don't keep the existing 8 speaker channels in the front. I ran Sub Woofer 5V pre-amp levels to a new subwoofer amp, which powers a JL Audio 8 inch in the integral audio box. Sound is way better than stock - the biggest improvements were head unit clarity, and subwoofer sound. The only stock pieces left are the front mid range near the tweeters (which BSW does not supply) and the HK front speaker amp - on the passenger side rear of the car.

You need a new amp for the new Integral Audio Sub - I use a one channel 100Watt and it works great. Look for a smaller one that you can mount on the existing mount and place under carpet - I only used 2 of the existing mounting screws and my new amp was bigger but it still fits under carpet for a total stealth install.

[Mr Bingley]

Here you go

http://mz3.net/a-stereo-upgrade-to-learn-from-6.html

dead link

[Mr Bingley]

Sounds like I did the same as you already, I have new BSW all around, new head unit which powers the HK amp for speakers up front - I send Speaker Level inputs to it - and it sounds fine - it accepts Hi Level inputs - and is now basically a glorified active crossover. The problem with replacing it is that it powers the front woofers, front tweeters, front mid range, rear speakers, that's 8 channels - not including the sub. I am sure all/most people who replace the HK front speakers amp use new speakers and don't keep the existing 8 speaker channels in the front. I ran Sub Woofer 5V pre-amp levels to a new subwoofer amp, which powers a JL Audio 8 inch in the integral audio box. Sound is way better than stock - the biggest improvements were head unit clarity, and subwoofer sound. The only stock pieces left are the front mid range near the tweeters (which BSW does not supply) and the HK front speaker amp - on the passenger side rear of the car.

You need a new amp for the new Integral Audio Sub - I use a one channel 100Watt and it works great. Look for a smaller one that you can mount on the existing mount and place under carpet - I only used 2 of the existing mounting screws and my new amp was bigger but it still fits under carpet for a total stealth install.

So you were able to fit a new amp and the HK amp under the carpet on the factory mount?

I count 9 total channels needed to preserve the existing speaker set up: 2 for the front foot-wells, 2 for the mid ranges, 2 for the tweeters, 2 for the rear, and 1 for the sub. That's a lot of channels and amps just to replicate what is already there. Also, I want to preserve the factory CD43 head unit for cosmetic purposes. I just ordered a Rockford Fosgate amp for the sub with a remote level adjuster--I am thinking I can up the bass on the head unit and tone it back on the remote for more bass out of the BSW's with even balance (I am looking for bass clarity, not thumping).

[ZGator]

So you were able to fit a new amp and the HK amp under the carpet on the factory mount?

I count 9 total channels needed to preserve the existing speaker set up: 2 for the front foot-wells, 2 for the mid ranges, 2 for the tweeters, 2 for the rear, and 1 for the sub. That's a lot of channels and amps just to replicate what is already there. Also, I want to preserve the factory CD43 head unit for cosmetic purposes. I just ordered a Rockford Fosgate amp for the sub with a remote level adjuster--I am thinking I can up the bass on the head unit and tone it back on the remote for more bass out of the BSW's with even balance (I am looking for bass clarity, not thumping).

The sub amp is on the drivers side rear - at least in my HK setup, so there were actually 10 channels in my 2k HK setup if you count the DVC sub- dual voice coil sub which was powered by 2 channels.

From what I understand the progression of the speaker systems in z3s, first they powered speakers from head unit, then added an amp in the rear passenger side, then they added a dedicated sub amp in the drivers side in the back. The first subs had 2 speakers, then they changed that to a single DVC single speaker.. The non sub amp in rear passenger was powered by the same head unit so it took HI level speaker inputs. I think there was a time when there was a single HK amp in passenger side that powered all speakers, and that one was probably 10 channels. Do you have an amp in the drivers side rear?

[ClubSport332ti]

dead link

========
HK Amp Wiring
M Roadster, 3/98 build date

J1 12-pin AMP connector

pin function wire color
--- -------- ----------
1 12V red/white
2 on/off white
3 ground brown
4 ground brown
5 RBLO+ blue/purple
6 RBLO- blue/gray
7 LFLO+ yellow/red
8 LFLO- yellow/brown
9 RFLO+ blue/red
10 RFLO- blue/brown
11 LBLO+ yellow/gray
12 LBLO- yellow/blue


J2 26-pin Siemens connector

pin function wire color
--- -------- ----------
1 RB- IN blue/gray
2 RB+ IN blue/purple
3 LB+ IN blue/black
4 LB- IN yellow/brown
5-7 n/c n/c
8 RFHI+ yellow/red (LTwtr)
9 RFHI- brown/orange (LTwtr)
10 LBHI+ yellow
11 LBHI- brown
12 RBHI+ blue
13 RBHI- brown
14 RF- IN blue/brown
15 RF+ IN brown/black
16 LF+ IN yellow/red
17 LF- IN yellow/brown
18-20 n/c n/c
21 LFHI+ yellow/green (STwtr)
22 LFHI- yellow/brown (STwtr)
23 RFHI+ blue/brown (STwtr)
24 RFHI- blue/green (STwtr)
25 LFHI+ yellow/blue (LTwtr)
26 LFHI- yellow/gray (LTwtr)


J3 6-pin AMP connector

pin function wire color
--- -------- ----------
1 GAL IN black/white
2 SPATIAL n/c
3 SUB LO n/c
4 GAL OUT n/c
5 SUB OW n/c
6 SUB HI n/c


Notes:
* J1 connector has the thick gauge wires
* pin numbers are labeled on the connectors
* Function is as labeled on the HK Amp circuit board;
RBLO+: Right Back Low-freq speaker positive
* n/c: not connected; STwtr: small tweeter;
red/white: red wire with white stripe

[ClubSport332ti]

Door panel removal

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=58

[Mr Bingley]

========
HK Amp Wiring
M Roadster, 3/98 build date

Now that's what I like to see--info provided for my car, right down to my build date. Seriously, that is my build date. This kind of info is what makes this a superior forum and really impresses me about its members--thanks.

[mpire]

You don't need both tweeters in the doors. One good tweeter will work, but you will have to fab up a way to mount them.

[janikphoto]

You don't need both tweeters in the doors. One good tweeter will work, but you will have to fab up a way to mount them.

I agree with this statement. However, I plan to try and squeeze a 2" mid/tweet and a 1" tweet in those doors if I can. I need to pull a door card and see if it's possible.

[ClubSport332ti]

I agree with this statement. However, I plan to try and squeeze a 2" mid/tweet and a 1" tweet in those doors if I can. I need to pull a door card and see if it's possible.

Anyone know if the M3 BSW tweeters will fit our stock location with minimal modification

[mpire]

have you bought and installed the amp yet?

[janikphoto]

I got bored and pulled the door cards today. I pulled the stock tweets and mid/tweets. I then was able to custom mount a new pair of tweeters in there and measure to make sure some 2" mids will fit. It looks like they will. I also found that there's a ton of room to mount a crossover box in the doors.

Bonus: I greased the window tracks and now my windows don't take twenty minutes to raise and lower! OK, twenty minutes is an exaggeration, but they were darn slow before.

[ClubSport332ti]

I got bored and pulled the door cards today. I pulled the stock tweets and mid/tweets. I then was able to custom mount a new pair of tweeters in there and measure to make sure some 2" mids will fit. It looks like they will. I also found that there's a ton of room to mount a crossover box in the doors.

Bonus: I greased the window tracks and now my windows don't take twenty minutes to raise and lower! OK, twenty minutes is an exaggeration, but they were darn slow before.

Can you post some pictures of the speakers?

[janikphoto]

Can you post some pictures of the speakers?

I was tempted to take pics as I did the work, but I was too lazy. I'll take some pics when I get the 2" ordered and ready to install. Should be soon. The new speakers and amp sound SOOOOOOO much better than the stock stuff.

[ClubSport332ti]

I was tempted to take pics as I did the work, but I was too lazy. I'll take some pics when I get the 2" ordered and ready to install. Should be soon. The new speakers and amp sound SOOOOOOO much better than the stock stuff.

I found some pics of the entire set up. I'm not so sure you will find a 2 inch driver that will fit

[mpire]

So, if this is the case, then it doesn't really make sense to replace the HK amp, unless either you are replacing it with an active cross over and 3 amps (2 2 channel and one 3 channel), or a 5 channel with passive cross overs. The former would work better, but take up too much space, and the latter is something of a compromise. Has anyone done either of these two set ups? How have you amp replacement enthusiasts dealt with the 3 way set up for the front speakers? Just to stay on point to the OP, I recently bought the BSW upgrade package and am contemplating installation, I got the Integral Audio 8" sub as well, and I trying to decide on amplification

Once again, you are completely missing the point because you think that its too much work or too complicated. Any aftermarket amp, even a cheap one will have THD of .01% or lower. The Factory amp has a THD of like 8%. Most good aftermarket amps have a THD of .001 or something crazy low. The factory amp is tiny, and its total crap. Absolutely the closest thing to lucas electronics that they could make. So replacing it with an aftermarket amp is almost an essential, and not doing so means you don't understand this concept, or you don't believe the facts.

If you want to buy a high end amp, like an a/d/s 840 or something of that era, the crossovers are built into the amp. If not, you can get any myriad of mid level amps and stick a passive crossover on them. Active crossovers in the factory amp are pathetic. So while the factory paper speakers are cheap and anything would be better, the AMP is by far the weak point in the system and should be replaced before spending a dime on anything else in the system.

Dealing with the 3 way speakers up front is pointless. The speakers are all different ohms to make up for the weak power of the factory amp. Just pick the larger tweeter and send some clean power to it and instantly it sounds better. Running after-market speakers at high volumes with the factory amp is an easy way to blow good speakers. Too much clipping.

The cheap way to do it is to get a small 2 channel amp for the front components, ignore the rear components since they are 1" speakers anyway.

What I ended up doing in the roadster is installing a 4 channel JL G4500 for fronts and bridging the rear channels for the sub. I used that Kicker CVT65 that was fairly inexpensive and does the job better than the original stuff for sure.

The rear speakers in the roadster are placed in such a way that I really couldn't tell when they were hooked up or not. You don't need tweeters in the back anyway, it just messes up the sound stage. Just throw some inexpensive speakers in there, or do what I did and just leave them disconnected.

The more I read, the more I think BSW is the Dinan of BMW car stereos. Preying on the uninformed.

[mpire]

I was tempted to take pics as I did the work, but I was too lazy. I'll take some pics when I get the 2" ordered and ready to install. Should be soon. The new speakers and amp sound SOOOOOOO much better than the stock stuff.

I don't see you getting 2" speakers installed in the doors. Its a tight fit making these 1" speakers fit.

I took the cups that came with the speakers and then epoxied tabs on them to use the factory mounts.



Its a tight fit. The depth is the issue, but I bet you would have problems with the width on 2" tweets. Why do you want tweets that big anyway?

[mpire]

Here is a pic of the amp/crossover/cap that I stuck in the PY coupe.

Compact and just pops in there.

[ClubSport332ti]

Here is a pic of the amp/crossover/cap that I stuck in the PY coupe.

Compact and just pops in there.

You make a valid argument. However, after modifying every car pre e46 and E53. I found it more gratifying to get into a stock looking car, drive it and not worry about doing rewire routing, taking up mental energy time and planing on car audio modifications. I have designed and sold various fiberglass enclosures, seen them sell on ebay years later, as well as kick panels. Personally, I have been into car audio since Steve Brown lived in my same apartment building in Seattle working on his MQ quart Celica. That is basically two cars before his famous Alpine electronics RMS Osh tuned e36 M3 and move to LA with his wife. At this stage in my life I prefer simple plug and play and "good enough" sound in factory location. So maybe BSW works good for some of us, with stock sound systems who don't want to go crazy doing a full audio instal or prefer to swap one item at a time. I would gladly pay 2 times retail for their BSW alpine amplifier that replaces the HK amp that was in development for 7 years now.

You are dead on in terms of 3 way systems, especially in these cars. The best imaging possible is mounting a separate tweeter in the kick panel and time adjusting the right left time delay, and no rear high frequency, along with possibly ambient mode tweeters in the A pillars or door panels

I don't see you getting 2" speakers installed in the doors. Its a tight fit making these 1" speakers fit.

I took the cups that came with the speakers and then epoxied tabs on them to use the factory mounts.



Its a tight fit. The depth is the issue, but I bet you would have problems with the width on 2" tweets. Why do you want tweets that big anyway?

Do you think e36 M3 20mm tweeters would fit here

[Mr Bingley]

Mpire, despite your neo-flaming ways, the point re: the a/d/s 840 amp is well taken--a true 8 channel with cross overs. I will look for one--with that and a sub and its amp + the BSW's, the factory set up can be preserved and improved. Now for finding a 7+ year old amp that isn't blown...(I already found the manual).

[ClubSport332ti]

In all reality, it doesn't seem so hard for an electrical engineer to reverse engineer an amp connection to allow after market multi channel amp integration with OEM speakers upgraded to the rainbow audio/BSW speakers. BSW really dropped the ball here, epic Fail IMHO. I haves feeling that BSW will not even be around in 10 years. Especially with the advances in optical and digital sound.

[Mr Bingley]

In all reality, it doesn't seem so hard for an electrical engineer to reverse engineer an amp connection to allow after market multi channel amp integration with OEM speakers upgraded to the rainbow audio/BSW speakers. BSW really dropped the ball here, epic Fail IMHO. I haves feeling that BSW will not even be around in 10 years. Especially with the advances in optical and digital sound.

Can you explain in simpler terms what the issue is with the BSW speakers and an aftermarket amp? Is it that BSW didn't come up with one, or that their speakers won't integrate with one?

[ClubSport332ti]

Can you explain in simpler terms what the issue is with the BSW speakers and an aftermarket amp? Is it that BSW didn't come up with one, or that their speakers won't integrate with one?

Problem is BSW was suppose to release a replacement amp for the stock POS HK amp about 7 years ago. It has "been in development" ever since. BSW or Rainbow or MB Quart work fine with aftermarket amps

[Mr Bingley]

Problem is BSW was suppose to release a replacement amp for the stock POS HK amp about 7 years ago. It has "been in development" ever since. BSW or Rainbow or MB Quart work fine with aftermarket amps

I was hoping that's what you'd say. I don't think BSW developes any of their products, just does the research, sources them, and assembles the correct components as kits/stand alone. Maybe they order the plug and play components specially.

[ClubSport332ti]

I was hoping that's what you'd say. I don't think BSW developes any of their products, just does the research, sources them, and assembles the correct components as kits/stand alone. Maybe they order the plug and play components specially.

They were developing this about 7 years ago. They leaked it to several forums but it never was released