Miata?? Please don't laugh

[drjay9051]

OK. I know what your thinking. Just let me ask. I currently drive an F150 4x4 and an old beater (2001 civic). I absolutely must get a "roadster" Long time ago i had a Miata M edition. Loved it. I am looking at a few different cars. Originally loved the new Corvette but $1000 a month is way too steep a payment.

So since the S2000 is extinct and I cannot find any out there i am between the Z4 and Miata. I know the Z4 is more powerful, probably more comfortable and I think i will feel better being seen in the Z4. My question is as follows
If I want to keep it at 30K do i go for a new top of the line Miata, a 2008 CPO Z4 or maybe a 2007 Z4M?? On the BMW site most of the Z4 CPO are automatic. At least within 200 miles of me, (Ocala,Fl.) Not sure why.

I would absolutly go ballistic if I could find a low milage Z4M but I only found 2, one coupe, one roadster both at 40,000 miles. I think that is too many miles. The Z4 in my area are all below 20K miles but again auto trans.

I know its a Bimmer forum just would like some sane, non flame opinions from those of you who drive Z4 and Z4M or who have also driven Miata.

I know I will have to drive a Z4 just wondering what you all think.
BTW: I prefer the newer look (post 2009 I believe)but too expensive.

[George K]

40,000 miles is nothing! I wouldn't let that type of mileage be the deal breaker. . .

[tribe]

I've owned a couple miatas in the past. It's hard to beat the nimble handling of a miata. Also, the cost of ownership is MUCH lower for a miata. Oil & filter for my MZ4 costs $100!

BUT.. it's hard to not love the power and high speed stability of the MZ4.

I guess it depends what's important for you.

[LorenFL]

Just bought a 2007 MX-5 folding hard top automatic for my wife and have owned several first-gen Miatas. There is NO shame in owning and enjoying a Miata.

It all comes down to what you want or need in a car. Miatas (even the newest "NC" generation, maybe even especially that generation) are definitely cheaper to own and maintain. They're not as fast, but they're certainly quick and responsive enough for a fun commute... amazingly, even with the automatic.

I'm finding that the Miata is a more "joyful" ride than the BMW. It's just fun to drive. The BMW is fun to DRIVE. If you push it, it rewards you with a feeling of confidence along with great acceleration, speed and fun. But, it's a different kind of fun... a much easier to garner felony-level speeding tickets kind of fun.

The bells and whistles are much higher quality in the BMW if that's important to you. For instance, I just added an iPod/Bluetooth option to the Miata. The Bluetooth works, but it's not like the BMW that shows you who's calling on your radio display, has it's own phone book to allow for voice-dialing, etc. It merely lets you take an incoming call or redial the last number.

So... basically:

Miata = cheap and reliable Fun Sports Car

Z4 = expensive, luxurious, and FAST Fun Sports Car

I'd say drive them both A LOT and figure out what your personal pros and cons are for each. What pushed me to buy a used Z4 was that it was silly fast (from my perspective, and I wanted that), and available in a true coupe (which makes it easier to take on a race track, which I wanted even more).

Oh, and if you like the Miata, why pay the new car depreciation tax? You can easily find a low-mileage 2007-2008 with all the bells and whistles for under $20k. I know, my wife just bought a 2007 with 24k for $17,400. That's a very long way from $30k!

But, what you really need is to buy my wife's 2005 MINI Cooper (no, it's not an S) for a mere $12,500. I'll even deliver it to you in Ocala.

[M0nK3y]

I found my 07 M Coupe at 22,000 Miles...CPO'ed until the end of 2013 and paid $29,000

It's possible to go the M Route and Stay under your budget. Drive a ///M and you will want to buy one instantly

[controller]

Gotta agree with everything Loren said. I crossed shopped a NC MX5 before I bought my Z4. I drove one back to back before I made the decision on the Z4. The driving dynamics were similar, but the MX5 was more nimble, and the Z4 had more in the mid and upper-rpm range. MPG isn't that different. I can get 30 on the highway, just like the MX5, but city driving will be different. Interior and maintenance have been covered. I'd say drive both and see what you like the best.

In the end, I simply wasn't in the market for a convertible and the cheapest hardtop I could find for NCs were $2600. That brought the price up to nearly the level I got my Z4 for. However you're looking for a convertible so it doesn't matter.

[drjay9051]

Just bought a 2007 MX-5 folding hard top automatic for my wife and have owned several first-gen Miatas. There is NO shame in owning and enjoying a Miata.

It all comes down to what you want or need in a car. Miatas (even the newest "NC" generation, maybe even especially that generation) are definitely cheaper to own and maintain. They're not as fast, but they're certainly quick and responsive enough for a fun commute... amazingly, even with the automatic.

I'm finding that the Miata is a more "joyful" ride than the BMW. It's just fun to drive. The BMW is fun to DRIVE. If you push it, it rewards you with a feeling of confidence along with great acceleration, speed and fun. But, it's a different kind of fun... a much easier to garner felony-level speeding tickets kind of fun.

The bells and whistles are much higher quality in the BMW if that's important to you. For instance, I just added an iPod/Bluetooth option to the Miata. The Bluetooth works, but it's not like the BMW that shows you who's calling on your radio display, has it's own phone book to allow for voice-dialing, etc. It merely lets you take an incoming call or redial the last number.

So... basically:

Miata = cheap and reliable Fun Sports Car

Z4 = expensive, luxurious, and FAST Fun Sports Car

I'd say drive them both A LOT and figure out what your personal pros and cons are for each. What pushed me to buy a used Z4 was that it was silly fast (from my perspective, and I wanted that), and available in a true coupe (which makes it easier to take on a race track, which I wanted even more).

Oh, and if you like the Miata, why pay the new car depreciation tax? You can easily find a low-mileage 2007-2008 with all the bells and whistles for under $20k. I know, my wife just bought a 2007 with 24k for $17,400. That's a very long way from $30k!

But, what you really need is to buy my wife's 2005 MINI Cooper (no, it's not an S) for a mere $12,500. I'll even deliver it to you in Ocala.

Good points. My ex has a cooper. Lots of fun. But what is with the guages?? Not for me.

Interesting take on the new car depreciation. Believe it or not cannot find a CPO Miata around here.

I love the thought of the M but have heard it is just not comfortable. Alot firmer than the Z4 non M iteration. Also not sure about i vs si.

Anyway I will have to drive each and see what i think. Nice M coupe down at Fields in Winter Park. I was concerned about the miles but I suppose 40K is not all that much esp. with CPO protection. Loren: Id be interested in your take on M vs non-M and i vs si?

Thanks,

Jay

BTW: I think there is a Grand Prix race down your way either this or next weekend. Tampa or St Pete. Dont know if your into this sort of thing.

[mjposner]

I owned a 1997 Miata with over 100k miles, upgarded to a 1999 Miata 10th Anniversary Edition, felt the need for speed an bought a 2000 M Roadster. All were great cars but none would be an every day driver. Also, as a big guy I felt odd in the Miata (seeing myself in a glass building reflection made me look like I was in a clown car).

I just got a 2008 M Roadster locally with 24k miles for $26,999 and I am using every day and loving it. I commute about 22 miles one way and it is a blast, and very comfortable.

[kurumi]

I've owned both in my life and I would say that the Miata was nimble and slow. Great on gas and cheap to repair/insure. The Z4 was not as nimble (still nimble compared to my other cars I've owned), but went like stink and is OK on gas.

I fit in a Miata with no issues but I look small in a Z4(the clown car syndrome).

[rps]

I have had 3 Miatas', a 97,99, and an 06. They were fun nimble cars, but the Z beat them for speed, luxury and comfort. The Z is gone, replaced with a 135i, but I still miss the top down fun.

[LorenFL]

Good points. My ex has a cooper. Lots of fun. But what is with the guages?? Not for me.

I'd be okay with it if it were an S. An automatic (CVT) in a non-S is a pretty sluggish drive. And it doesn't get good enough MPG to make up for it. (I drove a Yaris for a couple years, it was spritely and fun, and could still get 40 mpg... which the Cooper can't touch!)

Interesting take on the new car depreciation. Believe it or not cannot find a CPO Miata around here.

I think you'll find a lot of support here for the notion that CPO isn't worth what you pay for it. For a Miata, especially. They're good, solid, reliable cars. Just find a low-mileage one that looks perfect and has a clean CarFax. I'm sure much the same applies to the Z4.

I love the thought of the M but have heard it is just not comfortable. Alot firmer than the Z4 non M iteration. Also not sure about i vs si.

Anyway I will have to drive each and see what i think. Nice M coupe down at Fields in Winter Park. I was concerned about the miles but I suppose 40K is not all that much esp. with CPO protection. Loren: Id be interested in your take on M vs non-M and i vs si?

There are plenty of Z4M fans here who will tell you that the M is "the ultimate driving machine". It IS faster than the non-M, but that comes at the expense of a harsher ride and more maintenance. Personally, My Z4 Coupe is by far the quickest car that I've ever owned, and 0-60 in 5.5 seconds is plenty fast for me. I didn't need the extra speed (or expense) of an M. Definitely drive both. If you feel that you can't live without that extra thrust, then the M is for you.

Also be sure to drive versions of the Sport and standard suspension. The Sport suspension is "firm", similar to the M, though I'm not sure what the differences are. A 3.0si w/ Sport package should be very similar to an M, only with about 50 less HP and a lower redline.

The i vs si question is probably similar. I never drove an i. I've driven an M on a race track, and I've driven my si, that's about it other than maybe a couple autocross runs in some other versions. I don't know what the price difference is between the i and si, but it's the same engine with a different intake and revised tuning, so there is no downside to the si vs the i. Rock solid and reliable with very little maintenance required. Unless the i is a lot cheaper, I'd stick with the si and enjoy the "ample power" that comes with it. But, that's me... if you're one of those people who has no desire for excess power (my wife fits that category, though she is enjoying the "zoom" of her new MX-5), the i might be all you really need.

BTW: I think there is a Grand Prix race down your way either this or next weekend. Tampa or St Pete. Dont know if your into this sort of thing.

Yeah, St. Pete Grand Prix. I'm not really into it. I like to go to a race track and DRIVE, but I'm not much into just watching.

[SkiRush]

I just purchased an '07 CPO Z4, but I'll try to be non-biased here. One of the great things about the Z is the leg room. I'm 6' tall, so leg room was of high importance. Depending on how large of a car you need, this might be an important factor. The Z is actually not that small inside.

I've never driven the Miata, but I have sat in one. I found it to be pretty small. I know the newer generations of the Miata are larger than the older versions, but I'm guessing the Z is wider and has more leg and shoulder room.

This is my first BMW...and I know I've only owned it for 2 weeks, but I can't say enough about the build quality. I have never been a fan of Mazda because I find them to be pretty cheaply made. It's hard to explain i words, but the Z feels solid and very well planted to the road.

I'm sure the Miata is nimble, since it's a small 2 seat roadster. But, I'm guessing the Z feels like a more substantial car.

Just my 2 cents.

Check out the leg room.

[Aeroguy]

I own a 2008 Z4M coupe and owned a 2010 Miata power retractable hard top just prior to the BMW. I think I can render an unbiased opinion here.

As others have said, no shame in the Miata. It's a spectacular car. I'm pushing 50 and enjoy the finer aspects of the BMW. Depending on your circumstances, you'll need to decide what works best for you.

The Miata will be much less expensive to maintain. It won't offer the same "respect" as the BMW. Without knowing you, it's hard to say which car meets your needs.

This won't be much help to you but, you can't go wrong with either one (as long as you make the right choice for you).

Miata
BMW

[ZedFor]

I owned a NA (1st gen) 94 Miata a bit over a decade ago which I kept for about 18 months. I also worked at a Mazda dealership and have driven all generations of Miatas. My first impression of the Miata was that it was like a go-kart - pure FUN to drive with a wonderfully slick shifter and easy clutch action. My biggest problem with it was interior size. I'm 6'2" and it was just too cramped for me. Subsequent generations are larger but I still feel a bit cramped in the NC (06's+). They are a bit anemic power-wise but a total blast and I never had a single issue with mine - they are generally very reliable.

The Z4 is a different kind of fun. It's a much more substantial car, heavier, more solid, more comfortable, much more powerful and I don't feel cramped in it. There is a feeling of luxury and "prestige" for me as well that was absent with the Miata.

If you are a smaller person and you want something very nimble that is a blast to drive, you will be more than happy with a Miata (I'd look at a PRHT). If you are a larger person and/or luxury and power is more your style, then consider a Z4.

They are both great handling cars that stick to the road like glue, so as others have stated, you can't really go wrong with either choice. They're both wonderful cars in their own ways.

[mbimmoor]

40k is a lot of miles? LOL wow...

My old m3 was running strong even when I sold it at nearly 200k. Then again I love folks that think 40k is alot... gives other DIYers and such a chance at owning some kickass cars because people are paranoid and obsessed with a mileage number, rather than build quality, how it was maintained and a little know how...I digress.

Without clear criteria of what you're looking for, we probably can't help. Is this a weekend car? What trans do you prefer? Any track or autox? Do you care about performance or is this for dinners on the weekend with the wife and the rest of the time it sits? etc etc.

corvette to z4m to miata... that is one hell of a swing

[mbimmoor]

There are plenty of Z4M fans here who will tell you that the M is "the ultimate driving machine". It IS faster than the non-M, but that comes at the expense of a harsher ride and more maintenance. Personally, My Z4 Coupe is by far the quickest car that I've ever owned, and 0-60 in 5.5 seconds is plenty fast for me. I didn't need the extra speed (or expense) of an M. Definitely drive both. If you feel that you can't live without that extra thrust, then the M is for you.

Also be sure to drive versions of the Sport and standard suspension. The Sport suspension is "firm", similar to the M, though I'm not sure what the differences are. A 3.0si w/ Sport package should be very similar to an M, only with about 50 less HP and a lower redline.

The i vs si question is probably similar. I never drove an i. I've driven an M on a race track, and I've driven my si, that's about it other than maybe a couple autocross runs in some other versions. I don't know what the price difference is between the i and si, but it's the same engine with a different intake and revised tuning, so there is no downside to the si vs the i. Rock solid and reliable with very little maintenance required. Unless the i is a lot cheaper, I'd stick with the si and enjoy the "ample power" that comes with it. But, that's me... if you're one of those people who has no desire for excess power (my wife fits that category, though she is enjoying the "zoom" of her new MX-5), the i might be all you really need.

No need to turn each thread into a Z4M vs. Z4 discussion... for some reason the Z4 folks take extreme offense anytime an M owner pops their head in to talk about the differences.... I never seem to witness this with the 3 series and M3 crowds (5 series and m5, etc). Odd. Z4M is the M version of the Z4. Both are great cars and serve slightly different groups of people and functions. Drive both and decide. People get too personally offended with the M version thing. Wooo cares, they're all great cars and we all buy for difference reasons and circumstances.

And although Carfax is nice to do... it's not fail safe.

Buying a car should involve (at least):
1) research on the vehicle (common issues, problems, failures)
2) review of maintenance and service records
3) pre-purchase inspection by a certified mechanic for the Make of car you're buying
4) test drive


Buying a car based for the most part on looks is a bad idea. Car buying is emotional for most people and buying something just because you think it looks good can end up costing you.

[LorenFL]

No need to turn each thread into a Z4M vs. Z4 discussion... for some reason the Z4 folks take extreme offense anytime an M owner pops their head in to talk about the differences.... I never seem to witness this with the 3 series and M3 crowds (5 series and m5, etc). Odd. Z4M is the M version of the Z4. Both are great cars and serve slightly different groups of people and functions. Drive both and decide. People get too personally offended with the M version thing. Wooo cares, they're all great cars and we all buy for difference reasons and circumstances.

Nothing personal, and I'm not offended. I was merely making exactly the same observation from the other side. I said the same thing: drive both, understand the differences, decide which one works for you. I only complain when the M guys pop in and say "OMG, you gotta buy an M" with little or no explanation other than "it's faster". It's really not the right car for everyone, and it's better to understand the differences between models (not just the M and si, but also the i) and options (sport package, etc) before buying rather than after.

I'm just trying to help people make an informed decision.

[drjay9051]

40k is a lot of miles? LOL wow...

My old m3 was running strong even when I sold it at nearly 200k. Then again I love folks that think 40k is alot... gives other DIYers and such a chance at owning some kickass cars because people are paranoid and obsessed with a mileage number, rather than build quality, how it was maintained and a little know how...I digress.

Without clear criteria of what you're looking for, we probably can't help. Is this a weekend car? What trans do you prefer? Any track or autox? Do you care about performance or is this for dinners on the weekend with the wife and the rest of the time it sits? etc etc.

corvette to z4m to miata... that is one hell of a swing

I put an arbitrary limit on miles. Why 40K? Actually no reason.. Your point is well taken. My civic has 160K and going strong. I think I may have a bit of a worry re: issues with the BMW. I have read posts about multiple power top problem and other issues. Also reading alot about cost of repair. Please do not misunderstand. If it is valid work I will gladly pay for it but as you are aware there are several horror stories here.

I don't think it is BMWNA but the dealerships. I will have to check around and ask about local shop. My thought was lower miles less of a chasnce of issues popping up.

BMW is a respected marque and I would imagine build quality is excellent in general. Just don't want problems that can be avoided.

RE: Corvette-Miata-Z4. Yup its a leap. I lusted for a new Vette but after reviewing monthly cost and driving changed my mind. I have fond memories of my old Miata and want to once again experience that roadster feel.
In my book only three cars give that particular experience Miata, BMW Z4 and Honda S2000.,

[drjay9051]

Quick follow up question if I may?

If buying a CPO Z4 need I have it checked out by an independent BMW mechanic or is the fact that it is CPO satisfactory? Is the CPO and /or extended service contract worth the premium?

Appreciate all the help I have received.

J

[Eyebrakel8]

The miata is a great car and far lighter than the Z4. It will handle accordingly. Also, you should test drive an S52 and S54 M roadsters (1998-2002) as well. The Z4 is more refined for sure but its a whole other experience. Many in this section went from a Z3 to Z4 chasis. I'm just making the suggestion to test drive one. I love mine and prefer is over a Z4... a Z4 would have been cheaper for me at this point but I can't help that I love her

[chickdr]

Quick follow up question if I may?

If buying a CPO Z4 need I have it checked out by an independent BMW mechanic or is the fact that it is CPO satisfactory? Is the CPO and /or extended service contract worth the premium?

Appreciate all the help I have received.

J

As others have said DO NOT trust that CPO = quality. There have been several posts here about CPO cars that did not end up being what they were advertised to be. Always check the car out yourself and get an inspection done. You don't want expensive surprises later.

[rcleme05]

Drive an M Roadster. The decision will make itself.

[ElRedOne]

I've owned a gen1 Miata, an AP1 S2000, and now a Z4 roadie. If you do any freeway driving, you'll feel much more secure and comfortable in the Z. It's more of a daily driver than the other 2, more at home on the open road, but still fun on back roads. More of a "grown-up" vehicle.

[swampyankee]

I've owned a '94 Miata for many years. For the last few years I intended on upgrading to a Z3 and I started my search a couple weeks ago.
I had my Miata 'track tuned' somewhat, and it was quite nimble. But I've been using it for more highway commuting lately and for that it was quite buzzy and almost unstable feeling. I found the Z3 had pretty heavy steering and felt like a much bigger car, something that would take some getting used to. The Z4 has a nice manueverable feel to it, while being fairly stable and long-legged for the highway. I fell right into the Z4, comfort and driving wise, so I pulled the trigger and bought it.

[socalfabricator]

new guy here, been lucking for a bit, just bought a 07 z4mc.

regarding the miata... i can't believe no one has mentioned the mazdaspeed version of the mx-5.

during 04 and 05, mazda made the mazdaspeed version of the miata mx-5, dubbed the MSM (short for mazdaspeed mx-5). for this, you get the gen2 miata with a factory turbo. 172hp, if i remember correctly. I had one for 2 years, and only got rid of it because I was getting into motorcycles. Sure, nothing compares to the acceleration of a motorcycle, even the Z4M, but that MSM was a lot of fun. Not to mention the trunk space, gawd, the trunk space is HUGE! especially compared to all the other roadsters in that price range.

If you're even remotely considering miatas, I would ONLY look at the MSM. They have sport suspension (bilstein shocks, sports springs, 17" wheels... so on and so forth). Everybody overlooks this trim when they looked at the miata. Not surprising, since they made 4500 of these over the two years they were in production.

for what its worth, it's sort of like Z4M convertible... LITE. (and priced way cheap, they can be had in the used market for about $11k or $12k).

yes, the Z4m is fast, nimble, sporty and all the stuff that everyone here has mentioned... but in my opinion, MSM is all that, too, but without the price tag.