OT: Wife wants a Volvo wagon - Any Suggestions?

[Matthews]

I have been trying to talk her into a second e21 but with no success. She eyes everyone we see and loves the idea of room in the back for the dog. The boxier the better.

Are there years that you all would suggest over others? Some easier to maintain myself?

Also, didn't BMW make a wagon at some point?

[Layne]

Also, didn't BMW make a wagon at some point?

Yep.

[erok320i]

This...

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...?photo=1680927

[Matthews]

Looks a little to modern for me to do needed repairs and maintenence. Maybe I should stick with the 70's-80's Volvo wagon.

[milotrain]

Volvo Wagons fall in three categories: 1. RWD, 2. Pre Ford FWD/AWD, 3. Ford FWD/AWD.

RWD
The 240s 740s 940s and 960s are all RWD and were built before Ford bought volvo, they are good cars and last forever. The first digit denotes the line of the car, similar to BMW so the 2 is the econobox and the 9 is the luxoliner. The second digit denotes the number of cylinders. The 960 while fantastic get's only decent MPG at around 18 to 21 and there were versions that had casting problems in the aluminum block. You can't really go wrong with a RWD vlovo although it won't be pretty generally.
(S90 special note, the 960 became the S90/V90 sedan/wagon right before the Ford years but is the same as the 960 save cosmetic differences). Keep an extra fuel pump relay in the glove box.

Pre Ford FWD/AWD (no manual trans)
These are fantastic comfortable haulers (the 850, V70, and V70XC). Be aware that their AC will break in their lifetime and cost you around $1500 to fix so try to find one that has had this fixed already. Regular oil changes are these car's best friends especially in the Turbo variants. Timing belts MUST be changed at 70K intervals or you are doomed. The auto transmission is good for around 275k. Suspension components should only be replaced with OEM and are rather expensive. The seats are super comfortable. NA versions are around 25/28mpg Turbo are 18/25. I've got around 300k on my 850 with original Transmission, turbo and engine. Keep an extra fuel pump relay in the glove box. ABS units are known to have solder joint problems, don't buy a new one, there are plenty of people who fix them for cheap. If you get the blinking arrow it's likely not a transmission problem but an expensive switch that's hard to get to, there isn't much you can do about this.

Ford FWD/AWD (1999 and beyond)
It's getting harder to find pre Ford Volvos in good condition. However if you buy a Ford Volvo in the early years be aware that the transition from mechanical throttle control to electronic throttle control caused problems manifested in broken electronic throttle control units. Replace a $20 cable with a $300 throttle control unit that breaks, fantastic. After around 2001 this problem seems to have been fixed. Ford Volvos can be long lived or they can be lemons, you never know what you are going to get. The latter cars have no aftermarket radio options and many proprietary parts. The 06-09 cars had some paint problems that could lead to staining from the sap of trees (under the clear coat).

Maintenance
In all these cases doing your own work is your best friend, Volvo repairs are like BMW repairs, expensive but you can do it yourself for much cheaper. To me the pre-Ford cars are a known quantity. Before that you could have a total rust bucket junker, after that you could get a fantastic long lived Ford or a lemon Ford. Make sure you check the service logs, don't buy a car that hasn't had it's AC replaced/fixed in the pre-Ford FWD years. You can easily do work on any of the cars up to 1998, I do almost all the work on my 95 but I leave the timing belt to a shop. I have also had a shop replace my oil cooler lines because they are wedged under the subframe. Budget $800 a year for a FWD pre-Ford Volvo wagon and you'll be covered, most years will be less, one in three will be more. Do most of the work yourself and leave the stuff that's a PITA to a shop.

R-Cars
Be aware of R cars. They are fantastic but they are expensive to own, sort of like M cars. The 1998 V70R is likely the best but it's AWD and the AWD system is known to occasionally fail and it is very expensive. Many of the R-Cars are pushing 300HP which is fantastically fun but know that the PO drove it hard.

Support
Anything prior to the Ford Volvos is heavily supported by internet forums.
turbobricks.com
volvospeed.com (lots of forum gross but some gems of basic troubleshooting)
matthewsvolvosite.com (lots of good troubleshooting info)
brickboard.com (oldest Volvo forum, it's a mess but sometimes helpful)

[epmedia]

Milo, why don't you just tell Matthews about the one you have

[MrGumby]

I used to own a couple of 96 850s, an R sedan and a regular turbo wagon (R.I.P.) and never any major issues. As Milo had said, though, maintenance is key to their longevity. I bought the wagon from the original owner when we decided to go for child #2 as the sedan's trunk was going to shrink substantially with a double wide stroller and diaper bags! We loved them and would probably still have the wagon if not for an unfortunate accident which I wasn't even driving!! Insurance wound up totalling it due to the repair cost.

[milotrain]

I don't intend to sell my 850 turbo. If I do get rid of it for some reason I'll end up buying another pre-Ford 850/V70 turbo wagon. I can't imagine a better wagon.

As a sort of joke I want to turn it into a track wagon with a tow hook so I can tow another track car or kart with it.

[epmedia]

there you go Matthews...
either that, or a big-ass 'town and country' with a 440

[white96850turbo]

Volvo Wagons fall in three categories: 1. RWD, 2. Pre Ford FWD/AWD, 3. Ford FWD/AWD.

RWD
The 240s 740s 940s and 960s are all RWD and were built before Ford bought volvo, they are good cars and last forever. The first digit denotes the line of the car, similar to BMW so the 2 is the econobox and the 9 is the luxoliner. The second digit denotes the number of cylinders. The 960 while fantastic get's only decent MPG at around 18 to 21 and there were versions that had casting problems in the aluminum block. You can't really go wrong with a RWD vlovo although it won't be pretty generally.
(S90 special note, the 960 became the S90/V90 sedan/wagon right before the Ford years but is the same as the 960 save cosmetic differences). Keep an extra fuel pump relay in the glove box.

Pre Ford FWD/AWD (no manual trans)
These are fantastic comfortable haulers (the 850, V70, and V70XC). Be aware that their AC will break in their lifetime and cost you around $1500 to fix so try to find one that has had this fixed already. Regular oil changes are these car's best friends especially in the Turbo variants. Timing belts MUST be changed at 70K intervals or you are doomed. The auto transmission is good for around 275k. Suspension components should only be replaced with OEM and are rather expensive. The seats are super comfortable. NA versions are around 25/28mpg Turbo are 18/25. I've got around 300k on my 850 with original Transmission, turbo and engine. Keep an extra fuel pump relay in the glove box. ABS units are known to have solder joint problems, don't buy a new one, there are plenty of people who fix them for cheap. If you get the blinking arrow it's likely not a transmission problem but an expensive switch that's hard to get to, there isn't much you can do about this.

Ford FWD/AWD (1999 and beyond)
It's getting harder to find pre Ford Volvos in good condition. However if you buy a Ford Volvo in the early years be aware that the transition from mechanical throttle control to electronic throttle control caused problems manifested in broken electronic throttle control units. Replace a $20 cable with a $300 throttle control unit that breaks, fantastic. After around 2001 this problem seems to have been fixed. Ford Volvos can be long lived or they can be lemons, you never know what you are going to get. The latter cars have no aftermarket radio options and many proprietary parts. The 06-09 cars had some paint problems that could lead to staining from the sap of trees (under the clear coat).

Maintenance
In all these cases doing your own work is your best friend, Volvo repairs are like BMW repairs, expensive but you can do it yourself for much cheaper. To me the pre-Ford cars are a known quantity. Before that you could have a total rust bucket junker, after that you could get a fantastic long lived Ford or a lemon Ford. Make sure you check the service logs, don't buy a car that hasn't had it's AC replaced/fixed in the pre-Ford FWD years. You can easily do work on any of the cars up to 1998, I do almost all the work on my 95 but I leave the timing belt to a shop. I have also had a shop replace my oil cooler lines because they are wedged under the subframe. Budget $800 a year for a FWD pre-Ford Volvo wagon and you'll be covered, most years will be less, one in three will be more. Do most of the work yourself and leave the stuff that's a PITA to a shop.

R-Cars
Be aware of R cars. They are fantastic but they are expensive to own, sort of like M cars. The 1998 V70R is likely the best but it's AWD and the AWD system is known to occasionally fail and it is very expensive. Many of the R-Cars are pushing 300HP which is fantastically fun but know that the PO drove it hard.

Support
Anything prior to the Ford Volvos is heavily supported by internet forums.
turbobricks.com
volvospeed.com (lots of forum gross but some gems of basic troubleshooting)
matthewsvolvosite.com (lots of good troubleshooting info)
brickboard.com (oldest Volvo forum, it's a mess but sometimes helpful)

I'm glad someone know's what they are talking about (when it comes to volvo's)... Get a 240 or a 850, they are both reliable, safe, and cheap. My parents have a 240 with 378,000 miles on it, and a 850 turbo with 210,000 both run great!

[vtgti]

Get a 740 Wagon 5-speed. Bullet proof, Front Engine, Rear Wheel Drive.

I had a 740 5-speed wagon, and it was my most favorite car ever. Super simple. Loads of room in the engine bay. More modern looking than the 240's but still old. Super comfortable even for my 6'5" 300# body.

I bought it for $500. Smashed into anything I wanted and still sold it for $500 to help a friend, who is still driving it. I remember changing a leaking radiator one time. The radiator was only $100, and I had the old one removed, new one installed, and coolant bled in under 15 minutes and I had never worked on one before. It was awesome.

This was my prefered winter driver, even over my Audi V8 quattro.

[restonewbie]

I have a 93 850 that my daughter drives...216K and going strong. Yes we replaced the air and the transmission but is very dependable and still fun to drive. My wife drives a 2000 s80. I can't get her out of it. AC needs repair, but will be a summer project. The wagons are being discontinued by Volvo, so there might be some blow out deals on new ones. Personally, I want the V 70XC. They have a little more pluck.

[Layne]

I remember changing a leaking radiator one time. The radiator was only $100, and I had the old one removed, new one installed, and coolant bled in under 15 minutes and I had never worked on one before. It was awesome.

Craigtslisting immediately to find one of these for my sister. I changed the radiator on her taurus, and OMFG it was terrible. Took 5 hours. I'll never work on that POS again no matter how broke she is or how badly she needs to go somewhere.

[vtgti]

So much room to do anything you want!

[euroshark]

+1 on the 740. The 240s are cool in a way but they feel older and more basic than the 740. The 740 is actually a pretty nice (but not quite luxurious) car inside but the mechanical stuff is just as simple as the 240. TONS of room to work on them, and you will need to, but at least most jobs are pretty easy and parts are generally dirt cheap.

[Clio320i]

Matt, just take $2000 and get any 240 wagon you like. Latest year, lowest miles is great. Try not to buy anything from Rich's Volvos Only over there by the Lucky Lab (he posts a lot of cars on CL). Some have said that '88 is the best year. Anything after about 86 will be young enough to be a non-headache. We have a '79 and a '90. Both are rockstars. The '79 has k-jet just like the E21.

Why, you ask, do I recommend the 240 over the 7/8/9 series? Because they're just as good, really quite simple (you will be able to figure the thing out easily), and extremely common in these parts (read: lots of cars in the boneyard for you to pick over). In Portland, you can't even go two blocks without seeing one. That's an important consideration IMO. Also, the '89 and later 240 series crash test ratings are as good or better than a late '00s Chevy Malibu which is one of Chevy's safest cars.

I do have friends that have 740s and 9-series cars and they love 'em, though. Really, any RWD Volvo will serve you well.

[Layne]

Hey Matthews, here's a nice one up your way:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...0#post21571440

[Matthews]

Thank you Layne. I think I may go have a look at it this week once I talk with my wife.

[joey79]

1800es for sure... beautiful.

[hdx]

look in to a 144 .I had a 1973 142 It was my first car loved it . One of the best
cars I ever had.