HPF Response to Blown Motors

[HPF Chris]

There has been some speculation that some of our customers with our HPF turbo kits have had an engine failure. This is true. I have taken these failures as areas where we need improvement both from a product level and from an installation level. Whenever there is new technology developed or employed, there will often be failures. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. But what's important in the end is how the customer was treated, was he/she taken care of, and most importantly were changes made so that these problems don't happen to anyone else. With over 90 HPF turbo kits on the road, we have made significant changes to our product as a result of these failures and have also added a troubleshooting section to our web-site to help customers with troubleshooting. http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/Prod...shooting/11037

We've fixed blown motors that were as a result of other vendors products, but in order to be transparent with the problems with our turbo kits I will summarize these failures (in most cases this information has already been posted).

Kevin (xxcoolness)

• Product: HPF Stage 2
• Problem: May 2008 - Engine clicking sound
• Diagnosis: Low compression on one cylinder, ball pin (pivot point) was found to be defective.
• Customer Service: Customer transported car to HPF, HPF fixed engine for free, customer paid cost on one piston and gaskets.
• Product Change: None.
• Link: None

• Product: HPF Stage 2
• Problem: Jan 2009 - Engine failure
• Diagnosis: Head lifted due to OEM motor without ARP L19's. Coolant caused block to crack
• Customer Service: Customer transported car to HPF, HPF offered to fix motor for free, customer decided to go with a built motor 2.5 at a substantial discount.
• Product Change: Posted recommendation on forums for all stage 1 and 2 customers to upgrade and run ARP L19's.
• Link: None

Scott (Racemx-M3)

• Product: HPF Stage 2
• Problem: Aug 2008 - Engine failure - Piston melted due to lean condition
• Diagnosis: BMW dealership re-wired secondary fuel pump backwards when swapping clutch.
• Customer Service: Customer transported car to HPF, HPF offered to replace motor for free, Customer upgraded to stage 2.5 instead at substantial discount
• Product Change: Change to instructions to over-exaggerate the importance of fuel pump wiring.
• Link: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...=585821&page=4

• Product: HPF Stage 2.5
• Problem: Feb 2010 - Customer complained knock siren would go off at 150-180mph during hard acceleration.
• Diagnosis: Built stage 2.5 motor was built and installed without ARP L19's. Customer offered to install L19's himself. HPF shipped L19's for free. Customer did install himself and did not know that ARP studs needed to be replaced one at a time. Motor failed immediately following.
• Customer Service: Customer had baby and is contemplating stage 3 at a substantial discount.
• Product Change: All HPF built motors come with L19 head studs
• Link: None

My Tran, Richard Ott and Ardika

• Product: HPF Stage 3
• Problem: Dec 2008 - No failure but engines installed were consuming more oil than normal
• Diagnosis: Machine Shop HPF was using to build motors was not using the correct tolerances.
• Customer Service: Customer transported one car to HPF for stage 4, other 2 cars were already here. HPF pulled, rebuilt and replaced all three motors free of charge. HPF paid for all machine work.
• Product Change: HPF now uses M&B Cylinder Heads for all motor builds.
• Link: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=642532

Richard Ott

• Product: HPF Stage 4
• Problem: Dec 2009 - Power down, Low compression on a couple cylinders
• Diagnosis: Upgrade from stage 3 to stage 4 was done elsewhere. Immediately following power was down. Exact cause was not determined.
• Customer Service: Customer drove car from Florida to HPF, HPF flew customer home, HPF pulled, rebuilt and replaced motor free of charge. HPF paid for all machine work. HPF shipped car back to customer free of charge. Car was totalled during transport. Customer received full compensation for car.
• Product Change: None
• Link: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=730534

Evan (AMG_ETR)

• Product: HPF Stage 2
• Problem: Jan 2010 - Engine failure
• Diagnosis: Blockage in wastegate dump tube from exploded flex section may have caused an overboost situation.
• Customer Service: HPF paid to transport car from Florida, HPF pulled, rebuilt and replaced motor free of charge. HPF paid for all machine work. HPF shipped car back to customer free of charge.
• Product Change: Ensured Ribbed section was in all wastegate dump tubes and sent out notice to all customers to check.
• Link: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=756748

• Product: HPF Stage 2.5
• Problem: Oct 2010 - Intake manifold explosion
• Diagnosis: Unknown - HPF has not seen vehicle
• Customer Service: Sight unseen... HPF offered to remove turbo kit and existing engine for free, HPF offered to purchase and install new used engine for free. HPF offered to return car to factory specs for free. HPF offered to help find buyer for turbo kit.
• Product Change: Cause Unknown
• Link: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=823614

George

• Product: HPF Stage 2
• Problem: April 2010 - Engine Failure
• Diagnosis: Car in Beirut Lebanon. Appears that car may have been set to race mode with residual pump gas in 2nd tank.
• Customer Service: Customer upgraded to stage 3 at substantial discount.
• Product Change: Posted on forums that draining gas from tank will not drain 2nd tank. Customer must drive car until mileage left says zero. Customer must add a minimum of 10 gallons of 110 leaded before flipping race fuel switch.
• Link: None

Baris

• Product: HPF Stage 3
• Problem: June 2010 - Engine Failure
• Diagnosis: Car in Turkey. Motor was assembled in Turkey. Connecting rod was bent.
• Customer Service: Customer paid to replace internals as HPF did not build motor
• Product Change: None
• Link: None

Kenton (Commanderwiggin)

• Product: HPF Stage 2
• Problem: July 2010 - Engine failure
• Diagnosis: Low grade fuel caused detonation
• Customer Service: Customer transported vehicle to HPF, HPF upgraded customer to stage 2.5 at a substantial discount.
• Product Change: Created louder and longer duration knock siren
• Link: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=kenton

Mario (BattaM3)

• Product: HPF Stage 2
• Problem: Aug 2010 - Engine failure
• Diagnosis: Head lifted causing coolant to flow into cylinder and crack block
• Customer Service: Customer transported car to HPF, HPF provided upgrade to stage 2.5 and a new motor at a substantial discount. HPF paid for return transport to customer.
• Product Change: Same recommendation to existing stage 1 and 2 customers to run ARP L19's.
• Link: None

PSI

• Product: HPF Stage 3
• Problem: Jan 2011 - Motor burns excessive oil
• Diagnosis: Customer had early piston design which didn't have the correct clearance for oil squirters. Pistons eventually came in contact with squirters and oil pressure dropped.
• Customer Service: Customer removed engine and shipped to HPF. HPF provided brand new OEM block and all new internals. Disassembled and resassembled new motor for free and paid for all machine work and shipping back to the customer.
• Product Change: Piston design was already changed to account for this on all subsequent built motors.
• Link: None

[bigugly]

sounds like you stepped up to the plate man, props too you.


knowing what S54 stuff costs, how do you turn a profit! thats a lot of pro-bono work!

[funkboy316]

right on chris! ......now do the other vendors have the balls to post their lists??

thats a whole lot of customer service $$ that HPF ate right there to keep customers happy and improve the kits

[dmb882]

Exceptional customer service!

[Sniz]

thats awesome, Ive never seen a tuner post a failure list like this.

[milKt]

Strokers will eat.

[m3saloon]

you know, in a business world admiting your faults is a jump that few take, But the honor and ability to back up and fix your mistake, not just for that one customer but for all previous and future customers is something..

I wish HPF did E36's

OR do you!!??

wanna make me E36hpf #1?!??!?

[milKt]

to keep customers happy

HPF care of their customers!

back up and fix your mistake,

Now,
let's get Evan taken care of.

Finish it up the right way instead of a struggle.
This last impression of a struggle is leaving many with yuck mouth.

C'mon Chris,
pick his car up and finish her up right.

[Robstah]

you know, in a business world admiting your faults is a jump that few take, But the honor and ability to back up and fix your mistake, not just for that one customer but for all previous and future customers is something..

I wish HPF did E36's

OR do you!!??

wanna make me E36hpf #1?!??!?

Want to spend 30k on a 8-10k car? Enjoy.

From reading through the post, it sounds like HPF is using customers as R&D. What a great feeling to be getting paid to do R&D instead of the other way around.

As for this transparent bit, it's a cop out and a joke. If you really want to be transparent, maybe you should answer the questions that we have been throwing at you for a while now and that you have been hiding from with the help of the BF.C cleaning crew.

[AMG-ETR]

The thing about most of those engine failures that is completely different than mine, is that my car BOTH TIMES had the install done by HPF because that was the way to know it was done "right" and BOTH TIMES it blew up. No one has ever touched my car or tampered with anything so while a lot of those are excuses, there is no excuse for mine. Also Mytran's stage 4 motor that was just rebuilt is missing from the list as well. Also there is another 2.5 car I know of that is having major engine issues. Anyone else think thats a lot for "daily driveable complete turbo kits"?


The other thing about them is no other customers were told "You cannot be a customer anymore and must sell your kit for less than 50% of what you spent". Their motors were fixed...

[MrBlonde]

I would like to see the same scrutiny applied to all other businesses here. I would like to see the failure list for all other businesses.

[m3saloon]

anyone who can take a stock engine and put down such amazing WHP numbers and then fix it when it breaks is who i'm going to spend my money with!
anytime you change a engine from factory (lets say you add a CAI) and you melt a piston.. your new car is now void factory warranty! now take the same car and have the engine put out almost 3 times the hp numbers, and still be reliable enough to be a DD.. comeon!! 90HPF cars out there and 10 failures that have been cared for.. HIGH failure rate, yes. but not considering that problems have been fixed and NO other company is stepping where HPF is as far as driveability and power numbers.
hands down they are top in my book and i dont even own one..

i've already got about 25K spent into my 94 3 series. why not spend the extra and make it #1HPF?


on the other hand i too would be upset if i was promised so much and spent 10K plus on a kit and had my engine blow up.. but what you hafto understand is NOT all parts are built the same, and when your pushing your engine to the limit, the limit of the steel its made with, then yes you will get failures and you lurn from them. Rome wasnt built in a day.
for HPF being fairly small scale compared to the otherguys i give them props.

[Robstah]

The thing about most of those engine failures that is completely different than mine, is that my car BOTH TIMES had the install done by HPF because that was the way to know it was done "right" and BOTH TIMES it blew up. No one has ever touched my car or tampered with anything so while a lot of those are excuses, there is no excuse for mine. Also Mytran's stage 4 motor that was just rebuilt is missing from the list as well. Also there is another 2.5 car I know of that is having major engine issues. Anyone else think thats a lot for "daily driveable complete turbo kits"?


The other thing about them is no other customers were told "You cannot be a customer anymore and must sell your kit for less than 50% of what you spent". Their motors were fixed...

# Product: HPF Stage 2
# Problem: Aug 2008 - Engine failure - Piston melted due to lean condition
# Diagnosis: BMW dealership re-wired secondary fuel pump backwards when swapping clutch.
# Customer Service: Customer transported car to HPF, HPF offered to replace motor for free, Customer upgraded to stage 2.5 instead at substantial discount
# Product Change: Change to instructions to over-exaggerate the importance of fuel pump wiring.

This one I find to be complete BS. First off, you would have to be completely stupid to get BMW to install a clutch out of warranty. With HPF customers, it doesn't surprise me though. Plus, the dealership is there for OE/OEM work, not upgraded/aftermarket parts. Second, the pump should not be able to be wired backwards. That's a design failure, big time. Maybe the mechanic did it on purpose because of the goofy looking O2 box on the exhaust. It's hard to even believe that this story is true.

anyone who can take a stock engine and put down such amazing WHP numbers and then fix it when it breaks is who i'm going to spend my money with!
anytime you change a engine from factory (lets say you add a CAI) and you melt a piston.. your new car is now void factory warranty! now take the same car and have the engine put out almost 3 times the hp numbers, and still be reliable enough to be a DD.. comeon!! 90HPF cars out there and 10 failures that have been cared for.. HIGH failure rate, yes. but not considering that problems have been fixed and NO other company is stepping where HPF is as far as driveability and power numbers.
hands down they are top in my book and i dont even own one..

i've already got about 25K spent into my 94 3 series. why not spend the extra and make it #1HPF?


on the other hand i too would be upset if i was promised so much and spent 10K plus on a kit and had my engine blow up.. but what you hafto understand is NOT all parts are built the same, and when your pushing your engine to the limit, the limit of the steel its made with, then yes you will get failures and you lurn from them. Rome wasnt built in a day.
for HPF being fairly small scale compared to the otherguys i give them props.

25k in a 94' 3 series? I feel sorry for you.

The numbers they put out is due to big turbos and a high RPM ability. There are other kits on here that make much more torque than HPF kits and that's with 1250RPM less and even in some cases, less liters.

I also feel sorry for the ones that may have made a mistake themselves and having HPF tell them that installing things like head studs are as easy as changing an oil filter. So much for disclosure. It must feel great to have a company telling the world that you failed at something. Yeah, I definitely want to be their customer.

[m3saloon]

i work at a Roush dealer, and i can tell you that just b/c its a New car dealer that they dont jsut do OE replacements.. i'm assumeing bmw may be the same.
i've done tons of preformance upgrades including supercharger installs, programing, rerends, clutches.. all with aftermarket parts. dealer know how with the aftermarket factor. all cars that recieve a "aftermarket" upgrade though do NOT have a warranty..
if you buy a more expensive Roush supercharger kit it does come with a warranty but not the same HP numbers.

[ForceFed M3]

The thing about most of those engine failures that is completely different than mine, is that my car BOTH TIMES had the install done by HPF because that was the way to know it was done "right" and BOTH TIMES it blew up. No one has ever touched my car or tampered with anything so while a lot of those are excuses, there is no excuse for mine. Also Mytran's stage 4 motor that was just rebuilt is missing from the list as well. Also there is another 2.5 car I know of that is having major engine issues. Anyone else think thats a lot for "daily driveable complete turbo kits"?


The other thing about them is no other customers were told "You cannot be a customer anymore and must sell your kit for less than 50% of what you spent". Their motors were fixed...

Omg no one told you how much to sell your kit for, I even had a buyer for your kit but according to him you refused to sell it even after you posted it for sale . Dear god people don't believe your b.s. Anymore. That pathetic feel sorry for me thread on m3forums about made people sick. You screwed with your car Evan more than once. Meth and exhaust changes. Demanded parts shipped next day. You made your bed enjoy it. Want to prove everyone wrong ship your car back and stop hiding your engine. I daily drive my car every single day, 55,000 miles no problem as does many many other people. You can see that every person who shipped their cars back were taken care of. I'm sure your going to try the same old lame fan boi claim to deflect my statements, but in the end the bottom line is you should have shipped your car back.

[Robstah]

i work at a Roush dealer, and i can tell you that just b/c its a New car dealer that they dont jsut do OE replacements.. i'm assumeing bmw may be the same.
i've done tons of preformance upgrades including supercharger installs, programing, rerends, clutches.. all with aftermarket parts. dealer know how with the aftermarket factor. all cars that recieve a "aftermarket" upgrade though do NOT have a warranty..
if you buy a more expensive Roush supercharger kit it does come with a warranty but not the same HP numbers.

Unless it has some ties with Dinan, BMW wants NO part of it. The liability is way too high. A Roush/Ford dealership is nothing like a BMW dealership. Plus, I consider Roush as reputable and even your dealership would turn away cars that were modified by the HPFs of the Ford world.

Omg no one told you how much to sell your kit for, I even had a buyer for your kit but according to him you refused to sell it even after you posted it for sale . Dear god people don't believe your b.s. Anymore. That pathetic feel sorry for me thread on m3forums about made people sick. You screwed with your car Evan more than once. Meth and exhaust changes. Demanded parts shipped next day. You made your bed enjoy it. Want to prove everyone wrong ship your car back and stop hiding your engine. I daily drive my car every single day, 55,000 miles no problem as does many many other people. You can see that every person who shipped their cars back were taken care of. I'm sure your going to try the same old lame fan boi claim to deflect my statements, but in the end the bottom line is you should have shipped your car back.

Do you know how to use a comma outside of a mileage reference? Just curious.

[Robstah]

No suprise here from the queen of haters. Key board warrior to the end.

You keep calling me a hater. I just want answers. Chris wants transparency yet he hides behind BFC's mods and admins. I have given him plenty of doors to walk through to fix such issues, but he continues to hide.

For me, I don't have bias. I see what is available and what is wrong. You, on the other hand, have bias towards a company you have dealt business with. As long as you are clouded by this, no one with brains will ever take you seriously. Every post of yours is a joke and does not help the community. I am in search for answers while you are just here to stop me. Grow up already.

[rukman]

The drama never ends on BFC...does it...

HPF lovefest vs HPF haters.

Although this does seem to have some FI related content I would argue it is better placed in the Vendor Comments & Supporting Vendor Info forum.


HPF appears to be forthcoming regarding their problems their kits have experienced, but how come this information is not found on their website? Or did I miss it?

I don't frequent other forums where HPF customers may have an increased presence but on BFC it is seriously lacking. I personally prefer the owners themselves to post their builds, their comments or their insight.

All we seems to get is bickering among people who don't even have their products.

[AMG-ETR]

Omg no one told you how much to sell your kit for, I even had a buyer for your kit but according to him you refused to sell it even after you posted it for sale . Dear god people don't believe your b.s. Anymore. That pathetic feel sorry for me thread on m3forums about made people sick. You screwed with your car Evan more than once. Meth and exhaust changes. Demanded parts shipped next day. You made your bed enjoy it. Want to prove everyone wrong ship your car back and stop hiding your engine. I daily drive my car every single day, 55,000 miles no problem as does many many other people. You can see that every person who shipped their cars back were taken care of. I'm sure your going to try the same old lame fan boi claim to deflect my statements, but in the end the bottom line is you should have shipped your car back.

You are uninformed, irational and frankly a moron who will believe anything Chris tells him. I will not respond to anything you have to say anymore as you obviously will defend HPF to the end despite having no knowladge about cars (especially mine).

[rt turbo]

Hmm, I find this discussion to be Shallow and Pedantic.

yes, Shallow and Pedantic indeed.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qLFJuCCMpM&playnext=1&list=PL5CD1835F716F B0DD[/ame]

[AMG-ETR]

Hmm, I find this discussion to be Shallow and Pedantic.

yes, Shallow and Pedantic indeed.

Thanks for the quick laugh, needed it!

[ForceFed M3]

You are uninformed, irational and frankly a moron who will believe anything Chris tells him. I will not respond to anything you have to say anymore as you obviously will defend HPF to the end despite having no knowladge about cars (especially mine).

Again Evan more lies! Seriously when will it end? I had a buyer for your kit at $15k without the block. Chris has not told you that you could not be a customer. You wanted your money back without Hpf having the chance to see what caused the failure. Then you get a brilliant idea to change your sig and think some how HPF would be happy?? That's the same as walking up to someone kicking them in the nuts and expect them to thank you for the kick. I am well educated on your issues an ridiculous demands. You could make this go away right now Evan. Send your block to Hpf intact and unopened! The f/i world is watching. Do you have the nerve to send your block or will you just whine about the problems. As for the little no knowledge, I build my own 800rwhp supra from the ground up, you couldn't install that VF kit properly. Yup Nik complained about it

[boosted 528]

Isnt HPF offering to look at your car and fix it for free? If so why dont you just send it?
You already paid $xx,xxx amount of dollars, so what another 3-$500 bux for shipping?
Iam not taking side here, iam just confused onto why this argument is still exist..

[ForceFed M3]

Isnt HPF offering to look at your car and fix it for free? If so why dont you just send it?
You already paid $xx,xxx amount of dollars, so what another 3-$500 bux for shipping?
Iam not taking side here, iam just confused onto why this argument is still exist..

Bingo!! HPF offered to pay shipping if it was their fault, if it was Evans fault he would have to pay. He still has the car...

[indiglom3]

# Product: HPF Stage 2
# Problem: Aug 2008 - Engine failure - Piston melted due to lean condition
# Diagnosis: BMW dealership re-wired secondary fuel pump backwards when swapping clutch.
# Customer Service: Customer transported car to HPF, HPF offered to replace motor for free, Customer upgraded to stage 2.5 instead at substantial discount
# Product Change: Change to instructions to over-exaggerate the importance of fuel pump wiring.

This one I find to be complete BS. First off, you would have to be completely stupid to get BMW to install a clutch out of warranty. With HPF customers, it doesn't surprise me though. Plus, the dealership is there for OE/OEM work, not upgraded/aftermarket parts. Second, the pump should not be able to be wired backwards. That's a design failure, big time. Maybe the mechanic did it on purpose because of the goofy looking O2 box on the exhaust. It's hard to even believe that this story is true.



25k in a 94' 3 series? I feel sorry for you.

The numbers they put out is due to big turbos and a high RPM ability. There are other kits on here that make much more torque than HPF kits and that's with 1250RPM less and even in some cases, less liters.

I also feel sorry for the ones that may have made a mistake themselves and having HPF tell them that installing things like head studs are as easy as changing an oil filter. So much for disclosure. It must feel great to have a company telling the world that you failed at something. Yeah, I definitely want to be their customer.

Before you open your mouth you should get your facts straight, Scott is very very good friends with the guys at this BMW and he was there while it was going down.